are you at all familiar with gummosis on fruit trees???

check the link

ken

ps: dont borers turn into other things.. and wouldnt they be long gone by know??? ...

Here is a link that might be useful: link

Thanks Ken, but these are borers. Sawdust and nice little round hole. Help!

Mrs. G

Can't remember where you're located, but you may have Oriental Fruit moth (OFM) damage if you see jelly at the tips of shoots.

OFM won't burrow into hard wood, so that doesn't explain the damage you see at the scaffold point. That damage is probably borers. Your insecticide drench took care of that.

Lastly, sometimes peach trees will ooze jelly after a significant rain and oozing clear jelly by itself is no big deal on a peach tree.

You could be seeing all the above on this tree. If that's the case, borers are the only thing that can jeopardize the life of the tree.

Thanks Olpea, you are definetly patient and a voice of reason. I appreciate you reading my newbie posts! I will have questions about spraying come spring. Many thanks again!

If Lorsban is not restricted where you are it is the stuff to use. You can only buy it from a supplier of agricultural pesticides but the powder may not be too expensive, although you'd be stuck with much, much more than you need. Perhaps you can find a commercial applicator to spray your trees with it. Once in the trees these are dreadful pests.

Thanks Harvest man, thanks for the suggestion. I have a friend (sic) who owns a commercial orchard. Just maybe he might help. He doesn't seem to want to share even the simplest information. My thirteen trees cannot challenge his 100 acres! Hah! I'll get them! Thanks, as always

Lorsban is the premier choice, but most people can't get it, as many formulations are federally restricted.

Even Lorsban 75WG , although not federally restricted (some states restrict it) is labeled as "Not For Residential Use".

Pyrethroids will also work on borers and many are labeled accordingly and easier to get.

Pounce, Mustang Max, and Proaxis are some of the pyrethroids labeled for peach borers. Proaxis is the commercial counterpart (same active ingredient) of Triazicide Once and Done.

I have a pyrethroid which just went on today. Even the triazicide Once and Done was done three times and still not done.

Olpea, I just passed my 3A applicator test renewal and in the process learned that residential use is legally defined as an indoor application of a residence.

Hman,

Takes me back a few years ago to the debate you and Myk had over what constitutes "residential use" It was an interesting read.

In terms of Lorsban 75WG, "residential" seems to indicate outdoors, but I won't deny it applies to indoors as well.

Under "Sensitive Areas" the label says, "The pesticide should only be applied when the potential for drift to adjacent sensitive areas (e.g., residential areas, bodies of water, known habitat for threatened or endangered species, non-target crops) is minimal (e.g. when the wind is blowing away from the sensitive areas)."

"Residential areas" is classified as a sensitive area. The comment "(e.g. when the wind is blowing away from the sensitive areas)." suggests they are not referring to indoors.

Additionally, the EPA fact sheet regarding chlorpyrifos (active ingredient in Lorsban) states the following (under risk mitigation):

"The mitigation measures prescribed in the IRED along with mitigation that is already being implemented as a result of the June, 2000, Memorandum of Agreement, will reduce risk to both terrestrial and aquatic species. For example, many of the reported incidents of wildlife mortality associated with chlorpyrifos use were related to residential lawn and termite uses and use on golf courses. The residential uses have been eliminated, the termiticide use is being phased out, and the application rate on golf courses has been reduced from 4 to 1 lb/ai/A. Additionally, no-spray buffers around surface water bodies, as well as rate reductions for agricultural uses will be implemented as a result of this IRED and will further reduce the environmental burden of chlorpyrifos. (emphasis added.)

Since the context of the paragraph is concern over terrestrial and aquatic species, it would make no sense if the EPA was referring to indoor use in this instance.

Mrs. G,

Once and Done is a pyrethroid. If you doused the borers with Once and Done three times, I can assure you, they are Done. You have no worries about them till next season.

Here is a link that might be useful: EPA Chlorpyrifos fact sheet

Whew, thanks Olpea. I will check the trees tomorrow, but they see to be drying out well. Thanks to you all. Mrs. G

Olpea, I went back over the material and now see I'd misremembered the details. "Residential use" is by definition an application by the owner or lease holder of any given property, excluding agriculture use. It seems to mean that pesticides not for residential use are to be applied only by a licensed applicator except when used to produce crops for sale.

For me that was important in the context of the debate you mentioned because it meant that I was within the law of the label when applying Imidan in residential areas. For you, Mrs G. it may be important because if that is on the Lorsban label it would mean it is illegal for you to do the application yourself and legally it would have to be done by a licensed applicator (unless you "plan" to sell some of your crop).

Thanks harvestman! It is not Lorsban. I have purchased all of my chemicals from the local Agway or order through my local hardware store; they only sell sell retail to residential growers, not commercial. Your concerns are well noted. Thank you once again.

Would it be reasonable to assume that what has been discussed here regarding peach tree borers could be applied to Round headed apple borer?

Windfall, I checked my apple trees after reading your post. I googled a pic. of the round headed apple borer; looks similar to the peach borer but not exactly the same color. I really don't know. I was just pleased to see my apples were not touched by any type of borer.

Olpea, you didn't respond to my point so I've the opportunity to beat you to pointing out my further error in my last posting as I went back to the Imidan label and it states not for use in residential areas not that it is not for residential use. Residential areas is not defined legally to my knowledge, and the label really should specifically say how far from a residence this means. I'm trying to get a response to this question from Gowan. Bet they don't reply, however. I miss the days not long ago when you could get a person on the phone when trying to get info from this kind of corporation.

Mrs. G, I apologize for hijacking your thread but I assume you've gotten the info you need.

What I know about spraying homeowner pyrethroids for borers is it's about the timing and you're supposed to hit them when they moths are laying eggs (check your county extension).
My assumption is that timing keeps the larvae from digging in without ingesting poison.

If they're bored in the tree I think your option is to dig them out (the big ones) or cut the branch and burn it (lesser peach twig borer). There's no way to dig out the Lesser without doing more damage than the borers as their path is similar to apple maggot so there's little hope you'll seep into the holes and make it to the borer.

I can't say for sure (except about digging out the lesser isn't going to happen) because it's a prevention type thing. All I can say is I've been spraying my cherries with permethrin post harvest through late August and haven't had any Lesser attacks 'yet'.
Of course I could go years without them and in one year they can kill a tree. That's just how they work around here.

I'll also note that any Lesser hole I've seen with an active borer has been dry. If there's sap the borer is dead.

Stark sells a pyrethroid borer spray that may be strong enough to soak in and have staying power, but it also renders your fruit unfit for a time.

Hman,

If Gowan gives you an answer, post back. I'd be interested in what they say.

You have a good point about set-back distances from a residence. On large lots, I can't think it would be much different than using it for U-pick orchards (for which it's still labeled).

Rob,

Lorsban is labeled for apple borers, but the other pyrethroids I mentioned are not. I think there are some pyrethoids that are labeled for apple borers, but I can't think of the names off the top of my head.

Lorsban is the preferred choice because it has a longer residual than the pyrethroids. However, either one should kill active borers in the tree. It's just that Lorsban will last longer.

Don't know if you've tried it, but for lower borer control, I've read some people on this forum have luck with moth balls at the base of the tree.

"I can't say for sure (except about digging out the lesser isn't going to happen) because it's a prevention type thing."

Myk,

Although it's best to spray before borers have burrowed in the tree, I've read in commercial orchards, Lorsban will kill borers already established in the trees. Some of the compound infuses in the bark. I would think the same would occur with a pyrethroid.

My borers are cleaned out and dead. There is now a thick hard sap (like enamel) covering the wounds which are healing and covering over with bark very quickly. I think these questions are important and anyone who has info that can help us all is best. Imidan is sold in every hardware store and many a nursery in my area of southern, RI.

Lorsban is capable of killing borers already in the tree- I don't usually have time to dig them out and I've been using Lorsban for this purpose for many years.

I wouldn't assume that another pesticide could do the same thing, but I'd like to hear of someone who uses something like Triazide and what were their results.

If Lorsban kills the larva inside the tree, does this mean that it is being absorbed into the living tissue of the plant or is there another pathway for its action?

If absorbed, would this be systemic or restricted to the region of application?

Harvestman, I use triazicide and it does work. You have to re-spray weekly, however. There is 'pre-made' ready to spray in a smaller bottle and the type I use in a sprayer. It is not all of the 'magic' it is cracked up to be. Mrs. G

Triazide is a magic bullet as far as handling most fruit pests in the home orchard- at least compared to what else is available to the home grower.