Sounds like you may be cutting off too much of last years wood. The wood that grew this summer is the only wood that will bear fruit next year. You need to leave 40 buds or more of that wood when you prune this winter. If you learn the difference between old wood and one-year wood you will do fine. Follow the advice given.

So like raspberry canes, I should leave the current year's growth (with 40 buds) and I can remove the older stuff to get the two main offshoot 'trunk' structure recommended? I guess my improper pruning is going to resort in a larger 'trunk' base than if I had trimmed properly the last couple years, huh? So be it, I guess. :)

As far as the propagated vines, they should fruit next year, right? so I ought to leave those alone this winter?

Thanks for your advice btw

The propagated vines won't fruit next year if you cut them off the mother plant and move them. If you leave them attached and rooted where they are, they may be strong enough to bear some fruit. Grapes are ready to bear when they are big enough and well rooted enough to support lots of leaves.

On grapes you need to leave some of last years growth and remove as much older wood as possible. Since one yr growth is further out than two yr, there is some conflict there. In fact to the beginner it sounds downright impossible. But with experience we find that it can be done. It's just that there are compromises along the way and it can't all be done in one year.

You can live with a bigger, longer "trunk" than is in the pictures. But that can be corrected over time. What happens is that with heavy pruning new shoots arise near the crown. So the following year you keep the one-year shoots near the crown and cut off big wood further out. So it is hard pruning that allows corrective cuts over time.

Pruning grapes is fun if done regularly. All those decisions are rewarding after you get the hang of it.

The reason for low production this year was grapes had to much old wood to bear on your pruning should set up long vine off old wood from that you grow new wood this year with new buds that over winter on old wood vine. lets call new wood and bud whips growing off old vine along wire these whips need pruning back to 3 buds on new whip next late winter so be dorment and bleeding seal before sap begins move check your last frost date backup 4 weeks each of 3 buds produce grape pods so you want many whips to prune on old wood. From roots to top wire that should be maintain as single vine at top wire allow about 4 old cane to devolpe and run down wire so each those 4 old vines can grow new whips If old vine not long enuff you use end most whip tied to wire make it long as need I usely stop old vine next post some times thats can be up to 12 or 15 feet, canbe less about 8 feet down wire a single wire be better than chicken wire. A lot wires work like barbwire know barbs just double wrap wire, old telephone wire work no. 12 wire with high tensial strength work guy wire for pole work but not easy to work with the older phone electric people have extra wire at home. You doddle out on paper plant will take that forum including fruiting by prunning and fertlizer good growth make prunning way more simpler job. If leave whip long your plant make less fruit so do prunning back 3 buds if year to heavy production cut down on fertilizer prune to 2 buds per whip.

Almost in February so I am closer to the pruning time. I just want to make sure I am going to prune right, so I thought I would check in another time, offer some pictures and drop a possible bomb. Yes.. the neighbors adjacent to me would like to build a fence across their back yard, however the fence where my grape vines are hanging on the chicken wire would need to move out 3ft in the direction of the neighbors, so that they don't enclose my fruit trees in their yard (since I had planted my apple, cherry and peach trees on the outside of my fence). So now I really am worried I'm really going to screw up my grape production as the chicken wire has to come down and the grape 'trunks' and vine system needs to be swayed inward toward my back yard and trellised on wire.

So here's what I have done so far. I freed the trunk vines out of the chicken wire (grew through it in places and would have had interrupted circulation in a couple years I suspect) and then tried to make sense out the tangled mess of vines with 1st, 2nd and 3rd year's growth (assuming I count the year I planted them as year 0.. like 7" tall sticks in 2007.. is that wrong?). The vines are more of less straightened and here's what I want to do..

The wood that is the lightest color at the tips of each arm is the summer 2010 wood, right? .. so I leave 30 buds on that for each arm I want to trellis, right? I bought 1/8" wire rope to thread through 2 sets of needle hooks I screwed in some 4"x8' posts I had already sunk in the ground. My idea is that I want to bend the vines from that back corner of the yard over to the right (as shown in these photos below). The arms of the vines will be attached to the two sets of wires that are 30" apart. Will this work?

I realize I might be a bit unconventional, but my yard is truly cramped and if this works to get me good production, I'll be thrilled. My neighbor's house diagonally behind mine offers me no privacy, so I have thought of getting with my neighbor that has the welder in his garage, picking up some scrap metal and making a trellis to attach to the tops of the wooden posts, and then train some vines up there both for added production and screening of said neighbors. Nothing like them having a BBQ and looking uncomfortably in my back yard as the sweaty gardener has blackened hands and sweat pouring down his face. lol

Here are the 'trunks' I have 2 plants, but all the compost and mulch I dumped over the last 4 years had caused the one plant on the left to split\root a few times looks like:
{{gwi:123640}}From 01252011

This is just to the right of the trunks. Most of the vines are directed here, though I have a few really long ones on the right side out of the picture frame too.
{{gwi:123641}}From 01252011

Here is where I am attaching the wire and directing those monstrous vines, so the wires will go from the trunks to the right and then make a right angle along the rear fence between those posts.
{{gwi:123642}}From 01252011

Here is a shot of the whole setup:
{{gwi:123643}}From 01252011

So please offer some recommendations of getting this thing in control without sacrificing much production. This will be the going into the 4th year of growth in the spring. Our lost frost date here is around May 5th I believe, so how long should I wait before I start pruning?

After much effort I have stretched out\untangled the two grape plants and organized them on wire so I can begin to prune them properly. So what you all are saying is I should save 40 buds to the tip of EACH plant (80 buds total for both plants)? so basically if I leave 4 of the largest vines at the utmost end of each plant I should have 10 buds each on ONLY those 4 vines and cut out all the rest on each plant? These vines are 25-30ft long from where the trunk meets the soil to the out-most tip of the newest vines (from last year's growth).

I have 3 propagated grape plants at each post that I plan to trellis properly as my understanding of the proper way to grow these increases, but for now the monstrous vines from the parent plants will have to sustain the crop this summer, so I don't want to cut too much away. The idea is that the propagated plants will eventually take over and fill in as I hack the monster back down to manageable length. Is this a good strategy?

Here are some photos I took after the organizing yesterday to show you: {{gwi:123644}}From 02132011
{{gwi:123645}}From 02132011
{{gwi:123646}}From 02132011

Again, I am fearful of cutting too much of last summer's growth now that I know the fruit bears from those ends, but I also want to clean this up. I hope my simultaneous growth of the propagated plants is a good idea to "get it right". Sorry I am asking for the specialists to "hold my hand", but I really want to do this right.

Stop worrying about cutting too much. You're hurting your production, not helping it. Even if you mess up it will be replaced next year and once it's a more manageable mess you won't mess up and cut the wrong wood as often.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usIh6Gw8kYY

These two are very applicable to you. Don't pay attention to the training method, pay attention that she's cleaning up a vine that was left go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFQBCtjsMNs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuGJ49leC6k

Spend some time going through the related videos.

Thank you for these videos. The Dave Wilson one is a long-term fix (hack it all back to the trunk) and get no production at all that summer. I think I ought to take a hybrid approach to both tactics.. maybe one of my 2 plants gets the Dave Wilson hack job and the other is allowed to grow up high as that lady did with hers in the 2nd to last video. Thanks. What doesn't YoutTube have?

I took the plunge and pruned semi-conservatively last evening. I had 2 plants originally, but the mulch dumped over one of them actually split the plant into a second decent-sized trunk. I plan to wedge the blade of a shovel down on that one and try to move it down away from the original plants a bit so it won't be competing as much for the soil nutrients. What I did was basically have these trunks each only have 2 arms and from those arms the 3rd and 4th year growth breaking off to no more than 2 accessory arms from each of the main arms. One of each of the accessory arms was either cut so there were 10 or so buds on last summer's growth or cut back such that last summer's growth is gone completely (and some of the 3rd year growth nipped off as well). I kind of staggered it this way all along the wires. My hope is that this cutting will allow enough energy in the plants to fruit decently, but also allow the development of vines closer to the trunks so that I can continue to beat it back from the furthest stretches every year. I will be planting some other grape varieties under the wire the furthest from the source of the original trunks. I also want to hammer some side posts to the main posts and stretch wire on both sides eventually to support everything. Hopefully my strategy with the pruning job I did will be effective.
{{gwi:123647}}From 0218/2011
{{gwi:123648}}From 0218/2011
{{gwi:123649}}From 0218/2011

I see no less than 50 clusters of itty bitty grapes forming on the vines (probably many more), so I think I pruned them right. I want to get them sourced closer to the trunk, so next winter I should cut back even more right?
{{gwi:123650}}From 04242011-Easter

The amount of fruiting on my vines is intense. We've been getting nice rain these last several days and they are really plumping out. Should I fertilize? What should I use?

Don't fertilize unless the vines have less foliage than desired. Fertilizer now can lead to more foliage hence more disease by blocking sunlight and air movement. It may also reduce fruit quality, both sweetness and flavor.

Only fertilize grapes in fall after harvest or early spring. Then only if the plants aren't growing enough. Yours look to have plenty of growth.