http://www.birdwatchersdigest.com/bwdsite/solve/howto/treebaffle.php

Yes, I'm rethinking my use of tangletrap. My neighbor just used metal slopped with axle grease- about 32 inches long a couple feet above the ground. Protected trees weren't touched. He lost everything from trees he was unable to protect to squirrels- even his apple crop.

I'm thinking of using mylar as suggested in link above where the ascetics aren't such an issue as on many of the estates I work. Right now I'm using roof flashing prepainted brown. Need to find rolls of 32" though. Seems squirrels can jump up at least 2' while clinging to the trunk.

Squirrels couldn't cling to my trees trunks because that plastic sheet was started ground level.

BTW, I forgot to say I stapled the plastic sheets so they would wrap the trees. But I was lazy and stapled sloppy. Still worked.

Now, I'm planning on leaving them on permanently, unless I find out that the trunks could get hurt/damaged.

If the trees can't expand they will be girdled. I never leave the metal on for more than 2 seasons. If I installed them looser than that the squirrels could squeeze between the metal and the trunk.

I don't think that a hard enough plastic to stop them from climbing is going to have any stretch. Let me know if I'm wrong.

It's not a hard plastic. Sorta like black plastic mulch. Maybe a lttle thinner. And I wrapped it pretty sloppy so it's not conforming tightly to the trunk.

But got your point about girdling.

Do you think clear plastic could cause too much heat on the trunk? Doesn't seem so since it's been on for more than a month.

A Co-worker of mine had a problem with them eating mangos. They would take a bite and move to the next one destroying a LOT of a very large harvest. I lent her my powerful air rifle, it did the trick.

That's the way I've seen them with my fruit. They bite an unripe fruit. Don't like it and throw it to the ground. Then repeat and repeat and repeat. Until no fruit.

Hman, I like your idea of roof flashing rubbed with grease. The coons and squirrels have forced me to re-think the height of my lowest branches. I had been starting at 18"....now I realize that 32" is the way to go to discourage the climbers.

How to fasten the ends together so as not to allow footholds?

Marc

I'm actually going to try mylar next season although roof flashing with grease can be more ascetically pleasing if you use the pre-painted stuff.

http://www.birdwatchersdigest.com/bwdsite/solve/howto/treebaffle.php

There's the link about mylar.

For squirrels you may need to start your branches at 4'- the suckers can jump. I just staple them tightly. That and grease should deprive squirrels of any footholds, although the man with the mylar didn't use grease. Neither did Ramble.

I had a metal pole with a birdfeeder at the top. I coated that thing with every kind of grease including motor oil.

Squirrel went up, slid down. Went up, slid down. After a couple times, though, it had wiped off enough grease onto its fur that it managed to shimmy right up that slick metal pole to get the sunflower seeds.

What stopped it was a baffle.

IT, hopefully a pole provides a better climbing apparatus for squirrels than something with a wider diameter as is the case for humans- although squirrels don't have hands. They couldn't reach both sides of a wide diameter tree to pull themselves up but at what point an increase in width might stop them could only be established with experimentation. Even then all you could prove is what works at that time on that site. Thanks for the warning though and did you try axle grease?

My neighbor used air duct pipe at about a 5" diameter.

Axle grease - no, I don't believe I tried that.

I'll add that this was just a single squirrel. None of the others could do it, and most of them didn't even try, back when I was in the vegetable oil phase of the experiment.

Always wondered if all that motor oil on its fur killed it.
Evolution in action.

Hman, I am hoping to keep my trees under 11' or 12' in height (working with a 6' ladder). Starting at 4' to keep critters off doesn't sound like a lot of branches.....but maybe that's plenty. What do you think?

Marc

For a central leader you figure 7 branches total with 3 forming first tier and top tier pretty much horizontal and you can do it. Open center should be no problem.

Background: I am thinking of planting 9 to 12 apple trees next spring, depending on tree sizes. Will buy at Miller or Cummins. I got squirrels, though I have been able to grow sunflowers in my electrically protected garden. Sunflowers outside the fence are devastated.

Question 1: Which rootstock do you advise me to buy, so that first crotch is at 4 feet, but the tree does not exceed 12 ft without a lot of pruning? Vase form with central leader.

Question 2: I have not decided whether to protect electrically only, or electrical plus baffle or Mylar and high crotch. Electrical would be alternated ground and live wires, strung on plastic posts surrounding the trunk, and also a live wire surrounding the tree row. Any word of wisdom on the merits of these two? I think I will retain electrical protection in any case because it discourages raccoons and deer as well.

Also believe that picking up all fallen fruit will help. Because once they know food is there, they're scheming.

It is hard to set up electrical protection for each tree as the tree acts as a ground so charged wire can't touch it. I once used boxes for individual trees that were 4X4 and about 3' high with a chicken wire fence and about 3 wires. I used a continuous charger designed for dogs because squirrels will sometimes go over a pulsating unit without getting zapped. Anyway the system worked. I had tried spiraling the trunks before that.

You need to have the uncharged metal well grounded to deliver shock- I drove a copper stake into the ground about 5' deep as it needs to contact moist soil at all times.

I plugged in my charger from a house outlet and ran the charge line a couple hundred feet just setting it on the ground and letting the grass hide it. Used the heavy grey stuff used in the walls of homes. Probably illegal, but I don't think it's dangerous as the charge is not strong enough to kill a human large enough to be walking around. I'm not recommending it unless you can verify that.

Stay away from Millers for trees and consider Adams County Nursery as well as Cummins. Millers is unreliable as far as tree ID and they sell tooth picks that take an extra season at least to bring to bearing.

M7 or 111 will work and for vigorous trees even M26. From Cummins you can get Cornell rootstocks in that range.

Many thanks, HM. Here the electrical line will run only 10 ft from an existing garden, and I have some electrical experience. I have to dig a channel for drip irrigation pipes (also branching off from the garden) anyway, and there are no burrowing rodents, so the electrical line will go underground, and for 10 ft I can put it in a conduit. It should be safe and sound thanks to the favorable situation.

Be aware that you will still need some fencing against deer and rabbits, because the electric fence isn't very practical in the winter under snowdrifts.
Northwoodswis

Hman, as always, you are opening my eyes to tree shape in the face of critters. I am on the central leader plan. Let me make sure I understand. I am good to go with only 7 laterals......3 at 48" and then 4 more at what height, given a 11' max? 7 laterals seems light. I always figured I needed 3 tiers, 30" apart.

Many thanks,
Marc

You begin second tier about 4' above first for most free standing rootstocks. If you have any commercial orchards near you you can look at some trees to get an idea of how the trees will look as they mature. There is no hurry to choose scaffolds before tree begins bearing fruit except on varieties like Fuji which need more sun for fruit set (as it seems to me)- or varieties like yellow delicious that need branch thinning to get remaining branches to produce decent secondary wood (branches forming off scaffolds).

For most varieties if you just remove oversized branches- branches more than a third diameter of the trunk where they join it- you will guide the tree to earliest fruiting at which point you begin to choose permanent scaffolds.