Not much experience gardening in your climate, but what I can tell you from my experience is that cole crops (brassicas) do transplant really well. So starting them inside and transplanting is a possibility. I think red russian kale (and others) do really well below freezing temperatures. They even taste better actually.

Good luck and I hear you on the short days, it is dark for me after work too and such a bummer to not have an hour after work for the garden anymore. Can't wait for spring .... (a sunny southern California wimp)

Given your dislike for winter you might want to get a good dose of the Winter Sowing forum here at GW. ;) Not that you can eat them right away but you will be amazed at all you can grow from seed outside during the winter.

Dave

Cabrita,

I have thought about trying kale, for some reason it makes me nervous... I guess because I have never tasted it before. I should just get over it and give it a try! And as for SoCal, yes, you really are a wimp, lol! Or just spoiled, I guess =) Hubby and I spent six weeks out there in February last year, and it was SOOO NICE, I don't know why we came back!

Dave,

I am hoping to give that a shot this winter! I've actually already rigged up a milk carton with mesclun that I presprouted inside, so I'm curious to see what will happen with it. I know that's not exactly what I'm supposed to do... but I wanted to see if I could get some baby greens, at least, before the weather gets too cold.

Lori

"winter gardening" without kale is about like christmas without santa or presents.

The quotation marks because seeds for the most part do not sprout outside in the winter in zones much colder than 8, or if they do they get killed right away. The cold-hardy mature plants will survive (with the kales in the starring role)except in the very cold zones or in unusually severe winters. So it is more of a fresh-storage method. Also the plants will sprout new greens very early in spring, much earlier than one can get a quantity of greens from seed.

"winter sowing" as the name implies is getting seeds out at any point before the soil is warm enough for germination, so that they can germinate at the earliest opportunity. Yes, daylight is a major factor for seedlings, so seeds that sprout before late january will experience extremely little growth even if they are protected from freezing.

I was ill for awhile and couldn't put my garden to bed this fall, but this past weekend I had some valuable help. I walked out there to give directions and lo and behold, even after we've had several hard frosts and temps in the high twenties, I found healthy arugula, 8-inch tall romaine lettuce, and tons of bok choi in blossom and still dark green and crisp and full of flavor. There was no cover except for a light covering of leaves that had blown onto the garden boxes. It was harvest time all over again. My worker and I received quite a bounty. I wondered what all that green was when I stared out my kitchen window at my garden. I honestly thought weeds had grown up. Now I know what to do next year when days grow short.

It is too late to plant anyway, but yes, winter gardening without kale is meaningless. It is the most nutritious, the hardiest, the most productive winter green. A couple hoop houses full of kale make the difference between a healthy winter and a miserable winter. No matter what it tastes, one teaches himself to like it.

I guess I will have to put kale on my list for next fall... any variety suggestions for a kale "newbie"? (read: mild, non-bitter, non-threatening!)

Also, does anyone have suggestions for specific lettuce or spinach varieties that are pretty cold-hardy? I've noticed seed catalogs offer both "slow-bolting" and "early" salad blends (unfortunately they don't tell you what types are in them), so I'm guessing that some varieties are more cold-hardy than others.

Aulani,

Do you know the specific varieties you are growing in your yard? Obviously you have some that can withstand frost pretty well!

Lori

Kale- Hardiest, easiest to grow, good flavor - Siberian
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The blue curled types are more tender.
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Kale is not bitter. My favorite winter green, radicchio, is bitter but in a way that makes it my favorite. Territorial Seeds is big on kale, Siberian being the hardiest (plant in September) and also has Winter lettuce mixes which are quite successful at my site. I usually plant them in september for consumption in early spring.

I've noticed seed catalogs offer both "slow-bolting" and "early" salad blends

So called "early" varieties are more cold tolerant. The "slo-to bolt" varieties are more heat tolerant.

In your zone (6B) If you can provide even a modicum of protection many lettuce or leafy green blends will do fine. We grow leaf lettuce mixes in containers up against the west wall of the house all winter here as well as turnips and kale, even some collards in the garden beds well into late January.

Dave

digdirt,

You give me hope! After pretty cold (below-freezing) temps last night, the lettuce I presprouted and planted in a milk gallon was still alive and well... actually, it is sending up happy cotyledons to the sun already! So maybe it will be ok!! Do you think planting against your house keeps things warmer, or is it just to provide shelter from the wind?

I did learn that about the lettuce types this year, but only after I made the mistake of buying a "slow-bolting" mix this spring, but nothing hardy enough to plant for late fall/winter harvests. So looking for tips on what varieties to try... I have been doing some seed trading lately, and many seed traders have specific lettuce varieties to offer, but I don't know which ones would work.

farmerdilla and glib,

I am going to add "Siberian Kale" to my list... thanks for that tip. I should have known a variety with "siberian" in the name would be particularly cold hardy... =) The curled ones are so pretty too... can I resist? Probably not. Maybe I'll just plant them somewhere else in my yard where they can be decorative, and that way I won't feel too bad if I find the taste of kale isn't for me.

Lori

Lori,

I don't remember the variety of arugula, but the romaine is "Parris Island" and the bok choi is "South White." Both packages say cold tolerant. They weren't wrong.

Lori,
As much as I like kale and find it easy to grow, mine is very bitter. Apparently this is because it does not freeze here much though. I like it anyway, I will be growing lacinato AKA dinosaur's kale (saw a couple of sprouts this morning, yay!) but my garden drama is different. Instead of danger of freezing plants to death I have Harlequin beetles, so I must plant sacrificial crops with my kale or any other brassicas. Fortunately my sunflowers also sprouted ;-)

While it is true that kale is very nutritious, I think other members of the brassica family are as nutritious. You could plant cauliflowers, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, gai lan (not sure about the last one and cold resistance). Why not plant something you like? (I will not mention collards since they are even more bitter than kale). I made this silly mistake last spring, I planted turnips before I ever tasted them. I did enjoy the greens, but when it was time to harvest the roots I wondered why I planted them? taste first next time...

Cabrita,

That's a good piece of advice =) lol... I do think I will try planting some kale primarily for its ornamental value next year, and that way I can try it and see if I like it without any pressure!

I was planning to try broccoli in the spring, but in my first foray into brassicas, I am already disgusted by the cabbageworms ALL over my chinese cabbage (even this late in the season?) and I'm not sure I relish the idea of trying to make sure there are none hidden away in the broccoli before I serve it up for dinner! At any rate, I am going to be trying every companion planting tip I can find to keep the cabbage moths away next year!! I am just too squeamish to pick off the worms by hand, so I've kind of just given up on my beautiful chinese cabbage... =(

Lori

Lori if you have problems with cabbage worms try using row covers in the spring. It is a fabric that is lightweight and lets water and light to the brassicas but keeps the butterflies from laying their eggs. I just lay mine lightly over the broccoli and anchor the edges with bricks...leaving plenty of looseness (is this a word lol) to the fabric so the plants can grow. I removed mine in late June as the plants were so large the cabbage worms didn't do much damage after then.

Kim

Or put a bucket of water filled to the brim in the garden. The robins will then frequent the place and pick them for you.

I wanted to provide an update on my winter garden efforts. =)

I built a small (about 3x6) low tunnel using 1/2" electrical conduit and a clear plastic dropcloth along the back of my garden, where there is full winter sun and protection on the north side. I had a "duh" moment the other day while I was out in the garden picking swiss chard for dinner from my MONSTER plants... I transplanted them into my tunnel and they are doing great. (The "control" I left outside the tunnel is now DEAD.) We'll see how long they last through the winter! I know they'll go to seed in the spring if they survive, but that's ok, I'll have new stuff by then. And I can save seed that way too =) I also moved my parsley in there, so I can see how that does.

I tried presprouting spinach and mache inside, which worked fine, and then planting them out... well, they weren't doing so hot without any protection, so I put them in the tunnel as well, and I am starting to see sprouts! Not growing fast, but growing. We'll see if they can get established enough before the weather really gets bad.

And finally, I have lettuce sprouting inside a milk jug (wintersowing style), inside the tunnel. It is tiny right now, but green and healthy looking! I figured it would get "double protection" that way and might make it.

My husband just rolls his eyes, but I tell him, "Hey, this will keep me sane through the winter, so humor me!" And he really does, he helps a lot even though he's not really into gardening! Helped me get my new community garden plot cleared and tilled this spring (after five years of neglect), built me raised beds at home, and he even thinks to get grounds for the compost heap when he's at the coffee shop =) >sorry had to brag on him a little!Anyway, I am excited to see what will happen! All the tips from posters here are such a help!

Lori

If you have a farmers market in your area, you can try some locally grown veges and note what you do and don't like before you plant them. That way, you can also find out from the growers where they get their plants/seed and what type grows best/worst for them.
The area I live has so many micro-climates and soil types, it's almost impossible to just go by what's on the seed packet. I usually go to the farmers market or to a local organic nursery who knows what they're talking about. It saves a LOT of wasted plantings. HTH Nancy