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Fruit & Orchards

Too late to spray for CAR with immunox?

13 years ago

Does anyone know if it's too late to spray for CAR with immunox, this being mid-july? Aeciospores that will reinfect nearby cedars are produced during July/August, so wouldn't it make sense to spray now? This is for saplings, 2nd year in the ground; we want to get it under control, as otherwise it looks like some of them will lose all their leaves. What, if any, are the risks if we do nothing this year? Any input is appreciated.

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Comments (3)

olpea
13 years ago
Nelson,

Perhaps you didn't like my last answer to your question on the other thread, but let me add a bit more.

Generally there are so many crab apples and apple trees in a given area, that you can't control the disease moving from the apples to the junipers. Even if you spray your trees, it only takes one crabapple to disseminate the disease to the cedars. To try to reduce inoculum to the cedar trees by spraying your apples now is a long shot indeed. So no, it does not make sense to spray for CAR now.

Yes your trees may defoliate early due to CAR. Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do about it. Fortunately, it probably won't mean the end of your apple trees.

Again I repeat, concentrate your efforts next year to spray at pink, petal fall, and 1st cover. I think you'll find spraying a good product at these times will reduce your CAR to next to nothing.
nelson_ny
Original Author
13 years ago
Olpea: your input is appreciated, but more than one opinion can't hurt. I'll hold off until next year-
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Thomis: My ability to adhere to a spray schedule seems to be controlled by the weather more than any other factor. In Northern Virginia, windy, rainy days in early spring often outnumber the nice ones by two to one. I do not spray in wind, or even more than a light breeze, so when I get a decent day in late March or anytime in April with no rain in the forecast for a day or two I get out there and spray. Often I have to wait until late afternoon when the wind dies to do it. I use Ferbam against CAR, and whether the apples are in tight bud, loose bud, silver, pink or any other color tip, I want the chemical on there when the CAR arrives. If I can get two Ferbam sprays on the trees about 10 days apart in April, that seems to do it for me. Last spring (08) I waited too long, and lost about 80% of the apples. But the year before I got the timing right and had zero CAR. Timing may not be so important for those of you who use systemics, but Ferbam is not one of those. Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA
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Thomis: your shots inspried me to go out CAR huntin this afternoon. Found some that hadn't gotten their wetting yet and they looked like they had short dark spines. Then, I put one in water and, within a couple of hours, the spines started getting longer and thicker and turned rust colored. I'll leave my experiment running for a few more days to see what happens. One source I read said that leaves are most susceptible when they are 3-7 days old making sprays most important from pink until 3 wks post bloom. I guess the danger period could extend until the galls are done sporulating around you or until all the leaves are mature enough to fight off an infection(?), whichever comes first. Rust does require a wet plant surface to take hold I read somewhere else. Two years ago I discovered that Jonafree was not very tolerant of CAR and that Freedom was. The poor Jonafree took a whoopin! Last year I didn't have my feces congregated early enough to spray ahead of infection and got symptoms starting to show up. Sprayed w/Immunox + Captan and then again 7 days later. No more CAR! I think my spraying was done for the seeason by then. Freedom does show faint signs in the leaves but I think those go away, can't remember. Go get'um Michael
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Let's see, you need 4 things for a CAR infection - 1) galls within 2 miles 2) 3) water on the galls for a period of time I have yet to nail down, that time is temperature dependent for sure. 4) Warm enough temps.. I'm currently observing this year's crop starting to push out the very beginnings of the horns after 24 hrs. at 40 deg. while wet the whole time. From observations in years past, a few hours wetted at 70 deg. will result in a full blown telial horn eruption. This year is bizzare in that we have had 24+ hrs. of sufficient wetting with temps apparently too low for the galls to sprout their horns fully. Beware those galls that slightly sprout their telial horns slightly and then dry up, darned things can have one heck of an eruption later under the right wetting + temp. conditions. Also, in the big cedars around here a light rain may only get the outside hanging and uppermost galls to erupt, don't be fooled into thinking all is safe for the year as a round of heavy rain can then wet those galls deeper in the tree that weren't wetted the first time and you get another round, OH JOY! BTW, a gall that just got started but didn't quite get it's slimy horns out looks kinda like a porcupine covered with needle-like projections. In summary, Observe the cedars carefully and often when it is raining and you'll know for sure what is happening. Good thing Immunox has a Kickback of how many days Hman, 2 or 3?
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Itilton, I don't need to bother checking galls because I'm going to be putting down those 2 or 3 sprays anyway and the development of the galls probably coincide with the weather conditions that determine the timing of my sprays for PC and scab. This has worked on so many sites (over 100)- so many seasons (over 20, but used to be fewer sites), I think it's completely reliable. On the first spray in a 3-spray program I'm putting down oil anyway so no additional sprays are needed to control CAR. It is not just about when innoculant is there, it is just as much about susceptibility. For most varieties you need only protect the fruit and leaves will be adequately protected from this anyway(Immunox has serious kickback against CAR). There is not fruit until petal fall. Explain this to your arborist and tell us what he says.
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jellyman
13 years ago
Nelson:

As I understand it, you propose to spray your apple trees to prevent cedar apple rust from spreading back to the cedars. An interesting concept, but I doubt that many people have tried it.

CAR will be around every spring where there are eastern red cedars, and its severity seems to depend on the number of active galls, and, above all, weather conditions. I never sprayed for CAR until my orchard trees were nearly half grown, and had no problems with CAR other than a little leaf spotting. Then wham, I had two straight years when most of the apples themselves were ruined by CAR on the calyx end. That's when I started applying three early sprays of Ferbam, and that seems to take care of it. Two might do it, but the third is insurance. I have plenty of Ferbam, and use it for nothing else.

There are no cedars immediately visible from my orchard, but there are many, many of them within a radius of one mile. One good windy thunderstorm is all it takes to spread the spores everywhere. I don't think it is a practical possibility to prevent reverse infection of the cedars in your area by spraying a few apple trees.

Save your Immunox for next spring when it will do some good.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

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