Note that I am in Portland also.

The average date that I have all my triple crown canes topped is 1 July. By then they are 7 or 8 feet tall. I cut them back to about 6 feet and the branches take off at the 45-degree angle, eventually arching. The top of the arch can be drawn down to 8 feet above the ground when the branches are pruned to length in September and tied into the trellis system. You can let everything go higher if you like to climb on stools or ladders.

If you simply let the canes grow until the dormant season, easily into November (the canes will continue to grow slowly all during October), you could get to 30 feet with some random branchings lower on the cane. But by topping during the growing season, the length of all the resulting branches may easily exceed 30 feet for any one plant and increase the number of potential fruiting nodes for next year.

I have let a cane go to extreme length once and it continues to produce fruit even 25 feet out, but I don't have the room to do that as it is then in the neighbor's yard.

The Black Satin variety tends to branch at closer to 90 degrees.

Perhaps the Apache needs to be topped even lower, so that vertical laterals can be arched out at a reasonable height; I have no experience with this variety.

Bloom and fruit set have been excellent this year.

Thanks, Larry, for the reply. I haven't cut my Triple Crowns yet but one was topped by a deer and the resulting branches are coming out at a 45-degree angle like you said. But the Apaches are going straight up. Interesting.

I'm beginning to wonder if my Triple Crowns really are Triple Crowns. My Apaches are growing straight up. My neighbor's Navahos are 6-10 feet tall and standing straight up. But look at my so-called Triple Crowns:

In the above picture, it's just the shoot off to the right I'm concerned about. It's plenty stiff and strong to support itself straight up, but prefers to go sideways.

In this second picture, I've already tied these two shoots on the three-foot-hight wire, but the still are horizontally motivated.

Is it just because these plants are immature? Or should I suspect these aren't Triple Crowns?

I forgot to mention that these plants are well into their blooming period, which has come *after* Apache and Navajo in this area. I think that is consistent with Triple Crown.

The foliage is consistent with triple crown, but foliage differences per blackberry cultivar can be subtle.

Unless there is some large nearby plant that these canes are shying away from to go towards sun, they do have an odd bent.

They can be pruned as normal, though. The upward and downward resulting laterals can be guided to your support system.

tcstoehr watch flower cluster if Doyle they have more than 5 flowers per cluster. Growth habit looks like Doyle from your photo I had 618 Doyles planted at one time they all was copy what you have but time tell. Doyles over trail to long cane 4" growth per day I had 12" growth with very warm nights in 7 days I had 84" growth I keep records of growth morning measurements everyday when plants grew fastest twice day evening after sundown to see growth over night. Lets call plant triple crown until flowers tell different Doyles fruit closer than triple crowns. Young doyles flower up to 20 in cluster old doyle plant upto 100 per cluster.

Gator, thanks for replying. Though I sincerely doubt that these are Doyle, since those come only from one source. If they are Doyle, I can surely tell from the extreme panicles next year or later.

I got these form Raintree who I mostly trust but could certainly have made a mistake.

Larry, now that you mention it, they are all leaning to the northhwest. Unless coincidence, that might indicate an environmental cause. They are getting plenty of sun but they do get some shading around noon from a tree on their south side. Sunshine is more common in the afternoons here, and the sun is not blocked in the west until nearly sunset, so maybe they're just reaching towards the strongest light? Trees on the south side could also possibly influence them.

I've tied them up on the trellis, despite their objections.
I'm just wondering if there's some definitive way to tell the variety. But then, I'm probably worrying about nothing.

I don't see any Doyles offered in the Raintree catalogue.

Triple crown fruit have a very distinctive shape and flavor, you should know for sure in 2010.

I don't see any Doyles offered in the Raintree catalog.

Right... The only place I know of to get Doyle's is http://www.fruitsandberries.com/ I think they're exclusive to that site.
-Glenn

Actually, Triple Crown is described as a "semi erect" variety. And the page below shows the semi-erect blackberry habit as pretty similar to my plants.

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/ag401.html

Mine grow just like bamboo--ramrod straight. There are likely growth habit variations among a single variety.

That's interesting Larry. Now I'm wondering if *your* plants are not Triple Crown. (fickle, aren't I) Virtually all of the many sources of information I've looked at describe TC as "semi-erect". This is a quote from Don Yellman (in this forum) who has years of experience with TC:
"Triple Crown is not "semi-erect" by any stretch of that definition. It will be erect until it gets a little over 4 feet, then will fall over, which is not a good way to grow blackberries. This berry needs a trellis of some type."

If your plants *are* Triple Crowns, and they grow 7-8 feet tall without bending or falling, it could be alot of people would be interested in that. Growth habit variations among the variety would be difficult to believe, seeing as they are all genetically identical. At least I think they are all vegetatively reproduced from the same single parent plant, or is this wrong?

Very interesting nonetheless.

So I will call mine Triple Bamboo, or perhaps Triple Dawn Redwood.
The one below was about 8 1/2 feet tall until today, when I cut about 1 1/2 feet off the top. As you can see, it is laser-beam straight.
{{gwi:113857}}
Below is last year's topped cane.
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Next is this year's protocane showing newly-formed laterals.
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Lastly, this year's protocane after topping.
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Yes, Larry, it is as you said it was. Though I doubt any triple-crown growers would look at your first picture and think it could possibly be a triple-crown. But then, I'm at a loss as to what to make of it.

Thank you for prompting me to review my receipts, harvest notes, and catalogues to narrow the varietal possibilities down. I would really like to be calling my blackberries by the proper name!

Growth habit descriptions seem to vary per university website; NCSU calls Triple Crown "trailing", Chester "semi-trailing". Most sites call 3Crown "semi-erect".

In 2002 One Green World offered 4 varieties; mine are not Marion or Black Butte; that leaves only Chester and 3Crown.

My harvest season and berry flavor most closely match 3Crown descriptions. The 2002 purchase receipt has a bold typed TRIPLE CROWN THORNLESS on it.

Apparently there are West Coast and East Coast germplasm sources for many of these varieties and the growth habit varies per W/E coast.

Nothing conclusive; I'll stick with 3Crown for now.

Any blackberry plant first year be semi-trailing if erect variety. If trailing variety it keep semi-trailing every year at start of growth.
Larry your plant in photo thats growing straight up more like Arapaho. Apache cane turn before Arapaho (lazer straight). Navaho have more red tint in canes and turn like Apache. The hardest to tell apart for me is Arapaho and Ouachita I have 4000 plants so want be long before I can tell. Fruit no problem Ouachita so round. Your lucky if Ouachita very good berry. The Pense's brothers grow most of berry stock for large nursery's millions blackberry plants they get mixed up after go to large nursery they cover up mistake by saying we have right to subtute variety's in shipping.
Its mythl that Doyle black berries come from one place patent ran out long time ago. There hard to grow new plants so silver culture is use there 2 labatory's in u.s. that grow them one in Fla. other washington state. I visit one in Fla. on education tour for old people lol was enjoyable trip.

Larry, one more thing to check for is that TC canes get quite thick, like broom handles. Not to be a thorn in your side, but the more I look at your pictures the less I think they're TC. (opinion of rank amateur) Whatever the case, I really dig the straight-up growth habit.

Certainly you could eliminate certain varieties by cane characteristics, including diameter, but many varieties would have similar diameters. However, I couldn't resist conducting an experiment for the purposes of this discussion. I call the image "Triple Broom"

{{gwi:113865}}
The blue broom handle was slightly closer to the camera; to the human eye the canes and handle were precisely the same thickness.

Another problem with this erect thing is that Black Satin is categorized as semi-erect, and my Satins have the same ramrod straight habit also. So do my Jewel Black Raspberries, although with much thinner canes, they do bend eventually.