Because of the timing I would suspect that your sprayer was contaminated with herbicide.
Even if that is not possible on your end it is possible at the factory end. I remember a long time ago a spray in someone's organic line got contaminated with herbicide.

Why did you spray because of one green worm?

Hi Mmk1; I sprayed Malathion. It's in a sprayer I use for insecticedes only.

I was just out there thinking maybe I need to move some of the mulch away from the base of the canes for better air, etc., and I noticed a lot of dead real tiny thousand leg type gray worms that were less than 1/2 in long..., but there were still a lot of them that were alive as well.

Do you think these little bugs could be doing some damage?

Thanks!

iowajer-
Perhaps some pics here would help identify the problem?
-Glenn

Glenn; I kinda thought about that too - just delaying that little learning curve I guess. Tomorrow I will take some pictures and see if I can figure out how to get them in a post. (There's probably a thread or some instructions on it here, so I'll bone up on that and see if I can make it happen)

Thanks!

iowajer-
The basic idea is to host them to another site, and then type in some html get it to display. Or, at the very least, just paste in some links for people to click on. Good luck,
-Glenn

Do check leaf undersides for signs of rust -- dusty cinnamon to bright orange deposits that start in streaks and eventually cover the leaf. Seeing much more than usual this year, perhaps because of so much winter snowcover. It's a widespread native fungus, can't do much about it once it's there except prune it out when the leaves are very dry.

Don't worry so much, because raspberries know how to grow. If you lose that cane, it's early enough in the year for a new one to grow as a replacement.

The dangers of spraying. I have never sprayed a raspberry with anything.

"I have never sprayed a raspberry with anything."

That's how I treat them and why I asked why seeing a worm was enough to warrant spraying.
Even the cultivated ones tend to grow like weeds and can overcome a lot of damage once established.

Glenn; I've got a few pix over in Photobucket now, so I'm gonna try to get them to this post. If this doesn't work I'll keep plugging away, but have a family reunion soon so it'll be later on if I need to re-think what I've done.

Planatus; The drying out of the leaves does seem to begin as streaks of rust/brown stuff. I don't know maybe that is it. I like the "raspberries know how to grow" comment though. I probably just need to have a little faith in these things. They've been in for about 40 days (planted on 4/22) so I don't think it has to do with not getting established. The 2nd picture, the majority of the greenery is from a new cane. I think maybe I just get too concerned, not knowing a lot about raspberries.

Myk1; I'd not noticed your question on why I sprayed until later. Thing is, I'd had 3 potato plants with cutworm damage, when I saw that green worm and noticed my leaves turning brown I figured bugs may be about to kill my new row of raspberries, and that if I saw only one there was probably more and I best get after 'em.

But it's pretty reasurring to hear you guys talking about how these things are survivors. So I'm not nearly as concerned today as I was yesterday.

I just have zero experience with brambles, though I've got a couple year old Heritage clump/patch, and about 10 berries on one of my two blackberry plants. So when I saw damage to my new plants, but nothing on my existing ones I got to thinking maybe Caroline will get things that Heritage won't (hence the fungicide question)

Anyway, I'm going to see if I can post 3 pictures. The first one is the one with a fruit on it, but the leaves are toast. The second one is going fast, and the leaves are curling up some. The last one is right next to these two that are having problems, and is an example of how the rest of the plants look. I've got like 8 that look really good, and these two that set about in the middle of the row and are next to each other, are struggling.

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I just put some in this year and they're doing worse than yours. Size-wise, at least mine aren't shriveling up and turning brown.
Out of the 6 I planted only 2 came right up. Then slowly another and another. Now I only have 2 that aren't growing, one of those barely started and then died back. Figuring those two were hopless I pruned the sticks back a little to find they're both still green.

Mine are the opposite of yours. My Caroline are the ones that are 3 for 3 and it's the Heritage that are 1 for 3.

I don't know what the problem is other than my first suspicion from your worded description. But if they were turning brown before you sprayed that would rule that out.
I can't figure out why the 2 of mine aren't doing anything and especially why 1 started and then died back either.

There is some kind of damage to the roots, which could be anything from a vole to a soil-borne fungus. When you see damage beginning at the leaf edges like that, the plant isn't able to push moisture and nutrients to the end of the line, usually because of failure at the root level. Maybe some trauma affected the plants before you got them. Perhaps a new cane will push up yet.

Well that stinks! But maybe at least it'll just be these two, and hopefully they'll come out of it. I guess I'm not out much to just leave them be for awhile.

I got to second guessing my plan once I saw this damage. Once I determined where I could put my row, I hit the bromegrass with Roundup and a few days later I tilled it.

Then I went out and bought several bags of Humus and topsoil and tilled that in. About 500 lbs total. My goal was to create a kind of semi-raised bed.

After the plants were delivered, I planted them and then kinda top dressed with some peet moss and shredded cypress mulch.

After seeing the leaves turn I got to wondering if they were having a tough time breathing or whatever (even though it had been 40 days and they did fine up until now...) so that's when I decided to scrape back some of the mulch a bit further from the plant bases. While I was doing that is when I found all the little bugs like I've shown here. The pictures aren't very clear, but they're pretty small. I wondered if they got down there and were eating on the roots?

I now wonder if my attempt at soil amending was the problem. Maybe the bags of store bought humus had something that was bad news to my plants.

Anyway, I guess I'll just leave well enough alone and see what happens from here on out.

Thanks for the response!

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"I hit the bromegrass with Roundup and a few days later I tilled it."

I'm going back to "herbicide".
I think Roundup hangs around and migrates more than is claimed. Especially if you used the poison ivy stuff.

myk1; I kinda half-way wondered about that too, which is why I mentioned it - thinking someone may want to comment on that aspect of my pre-planting preperation.

I've been trying to discount that in my own mind though by thinking that they say once Roundup hits the dirt it's done. The stuff I used was not target specific like poison ivy or anything, but it was the good stuff, like 46% or something like that.

Then I thought, well..., Roundup is sometimes slow to show effects on broam, maybe 7-10 days, but then you have a good idea you hit it good and in a couple weeks it'll look like scorched earth. That these plants have been in 40 days, can it be that even Roundup would take that long to have an effect, and wouldn't it be getting 'em all? (I wish I hadn't said that...)But then again mostly Roundup is sprayed directly on leaves, so if there is any residual in-the-root action going on I wouldn't know that so maybe it would take longer to show an effect on my raspberries if it's first contact is with a root system somehow...

Then I reasoned that heck, I placed a mound of new humus and topsoil that's made my planting bed maybe 5" or so higher than the original soil grade level, and that my understanding is that Raspberries are shallow rooted. I took care to not plant them too deep, etc.

But I don't know I may just be trying to convince myself that I didn't doom my plants from the get-go!

Do you have any thoughts on the tiny skinny little multi leged gray/brown worm things? I was just out there and noticed every plant had about on average 10 dead ones laying around them as a result of me spraying them earlier.

Thanks!

iowajer-
Sorry I've been slow to reply. Crazy busy.
If you are suspicious that Roundup (or the woody-stem - poision ivy variety) might be the cause, then I agree with the others that it's probably the culprit. I've learned to treat that stuff with the ultimate respect. I now only spray the stuff on a dead calm day, and only when there is a decent gap between my desired plant, and my undesired weed. If you are not ultra careful with it, it winds up where you don't want it (perhaps just a vapor that you can't see) and then you pay the price.
Lucky for you, raspberries are incredibly tough plants. Hopefully yours will survive it.
Sorry, I don't know what your worms are.
Good luck,
-Glenn

Glenn; I'm down to just keeping an eye on them now I think. I assume if it is some residual Roundup it'll probably eventually show some effects on all of them. We'll see.

Those miniture multi-legged worms have me bugged (pardon the pun...) yesterday when I was checking the plants out I noticed many, many more dead ones at the base of each plant, maybe 30-40. Made me wonder if the insecticide I sprayed got watered in and was killing them even deeper. I hope they are not root-feeders. (On the other hand it may not matter if I killed my plants with Roundup!!!)

Thanks!

Seeing all the turf so near and dying leaves makes me think of dead roots... from somebody eating them, think lawn grubs. Have you carefully excavated a plant yet to see if there are lots of happy grubs gnawing away and to see if there are any roots at all. If there are no roots and no grubs, you have probably eliminated aboveground causes and weighted the argument for Roundup injury. If there are healthy roots and no grubs, it is above ground and likely disease. I've never seen disease injury in this relatively dry part of the country so will not hazard a wild guess.

michael357; I haven't really messed with it, I was thinking that it'd maybe start some re-growth on its own - but that's probably just wishful thinking on my part. Maybe I'll go out there and try to gingerly dig it out and see what's there. I'll post back what I find or don't find.

Thanks!

michael357;

I took a couple of pictures that you can look at below.

But I think you were onto something there with the grub damage thing, even though I didn't actually find any grubs. Something was clearly down there!!!

I dug around and about an inch below the surface/mulch I found a nearly perfectly round tunnel about 5/16" or so in size. It went clear under the roots. I beleive there was maybe even air pockets under the roots.

I didn't find any dead or active grubs though, and I again began to wonder if maybe when I watered in a heavy dose of malathion and later permethrin (because I was worried those little millipedes were root feeders!) if that killed whatever it was.

I mean, after I sprayed each plant had maybe 50 or more of these little millepeds dead on the surface.

At any rate, I packed the dead looking plant back in place just to see if it will take off again.

Here's a picture of the tunnel and one of the roots.

Thanks!

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It was said "I think Roundup hangs around and migrates more than is claimed. "

Roundup is inactivated with soil contact. The only way there would be any residual is if one of the newer formulations was used which contained another active ingredient that could hang around for a while.

Beyond that, nothing has been said about watering -- what method, frequency, the amount, etc.

Also the image of the uprooted plant -- those roots are either dead or haven't yet started growing. If they had sufficient water, we should see some evidence of fresh root tips. Unless of course, the plant was *pulled* from the soil -- instead of dug -- to inspect the roots.

"Roundup is inactivated with soil contact."

Tell that to my fence row that is still dead from last year's spray (of the non-poison ivy stuff). And tell that to the 1' one the uphill side and 2' on the downhill side of the fence row where the poison ivy stuff was sprayed.

Just because someone says it doesn't make it the truth.
The real truth probably lies somewhere between what the organic nuts claim and the company claims.

jean001; I'm feeling busted right about now..., yes after finding the tunnel I quickly tired of gently inspecting the roots and pulled the thing out thinking I was going to find a grub or some other kind of root-feeders down there. But no such luck. (I am still utterly impressed by your nailing the Roundup drift issue on that other gals tree, and now here - just calling it. That is awesome!)

As far as the watering goes, I took Nourse at their word and did not over water. They said to maintain good soil moisture and that watering 1-3 times a week was sufficent. I'm pretty sure it was not a water issue, and 8 of the other plants look really healthy. It was just two plants that set beside one another in the middle of the row that started having trouble after about 40 days in the ground.

As an aside, the other plant that was struggling and had lost a lot of its leaves.., well I noticed today a tiny little 4-5 leaf shoot out about 2-3" from the base of the cane. It's maybe 1/16th or less tall, but it's there! So that one must still be doing something anyway.