Hi Heather, I liked your project so much I went and bought a hand blender and burned it up in about 10 minutes. So I bought a better one and have used it for about 45 minutes. Havn't burned this one up yet. Here's my first question. If I burned a blender up in 10 minutes just making pulp, how do you keep from burning them up once you add cement? What model blender do you use? Papercrete must be very labor intensive, I only managed to make about 2 gallons of pulp in about an hour. It seems it would take an awfully long time to make enough pulp even for a fairly small project. Or am I just doing something wrong? Can the pulp be stored, or does it need to be used right away? What kind of sealer do you use to seal your papercrete? What I have in my head for a project is to make a log planter with papercrete on the inside, then when it cures apply "tufa" to the outside. I could maybe scrape through the "tufa" to expose the inner smoother papercrete and make it looke like bark. What do you think? Thanks Amy.

Hi Amy,
Amy you are doing fine! Basically this is a industrial strength paper mache. Well what I do is tear my paper up first into peices and then either let it sit in water for a while to soften it up, or boil it for about an hour to really break down the paper fibers. Then I drain it, add the cement in, and a bit of sand. I have a really old orange hand blender from the 70's that I bought at a garage sale and it is sturdy!
This is pretty labor intensive, another thing that can be done is to go to the local hardware store or Home Depot and pick up a bag of cellulose insulation, (about 5 bucks a bag-but they are huge!) this is just ground up paper and other stuff that is used as blow-in insulation. I dont use it much, as it is lumpy, but it does save a lot of time and probably a few blenders to boot! Just soak that in water for a while, and then drain it and add the cement and sand and blend. For really big jobs there is a site that shows a washing machine made into a mixer. I know that this is pretty labor intensive, but now that I know the potential of this medium, I think we can figure out how to make it easier too!
I sealed my piece with Thompsons water seal, it is doing OK so far, but its only been about a week:). You can store pulp in the frig, or add a bit of bleach to keep it from molding, I keep mine in a airtight container for about a week, if I dont use it, I throw it out. I try to use it though. With the cellulose insulation you can just take out of the bag dry the quantity you want, and then you dont have a lot of waste. I think your idea of log planter is a splendid one. I'd love to see pics.

Her'es the mixer.

Here is a link that might be useful: Dewey the papercrete mixer

Heather, Thanks for the info. When you said hand blender I just assumed you meant an electric one. I work in a thrift store, so I'll watch for one of the hand crank types. I checked out the washer idea. Sounds good if I can just find one or something similar. Thanks again. Amy

Hi again Heather, I think I've got the pulping part of papercrete figured out. My husband suggested a paint stiring implement for an electric drill. It is an all metal implement, not one with plastic on the end. It works great. I was able to do about 5 gallons of pulp in about 30 minutes. I have not drained the water from the pulp yet, so I don't know how much I will have once it is drained. My husband is going to try to add a small prop from an old electric boat motor. If it works it would be even faster. Now I need to build an armature for the log. Then I'll be in business. I Hope. Amy

Hi Amy,
I was going to suggest that! If you take that and sharpen up the blades a bit it acts just like a blender! My hubby is going to make me one and it sounds like it worked great! (aren't hubbies smart!)
Did you try the cellulose insulation? If you want the papercrete to stay together really well, just adding some elmers glue to the mix will really help bind it together. Good luck and please keep me updated-this is all pretty new to me too and I could really use someone to bounce my ideas and concepts off of!

Yeah Heather, hubbies can be very smart. I thought about sharpening the blades, and still might. I think a little longer blade might be even better. Thanks for reminding me of the glue. I will use it.

I havn't tried the cellulose yet. I might as well use the pulp I have done first.

I will be doing an armature today. Since I havn't done one before, it will take me awhile. I have to work for the next 3 days, so I might not get to actually doing anything with the pulp until Sunday or Monday (darn).

Ain't we having though. Amy

Oops, that last sentence in my last post doesn't make much sense without the word FUN in it does it. Silly me, I guess my brain was going faster than my fingers. Amy

I made my very first papercrete project. I don't think it is going to be very strong though. It more has the feel of an egg carton. I can easily break pieces off, unfortunately.

The second picture will show you (hopefully) of the real paper texture it has.

I have a question for you... when you say to drain out as much water from the pulp, do you mean to just let it drain on its own in a sieve? or do you squeeze as much water out with your hands? That is what I did and it was pretty dry stuff and found it hard to mix so I had to add water which I know probably decreased the strength greatly.

I did this leaf from a silicone mold I had made last fall of a catalpa leaf. It DID pick up the detail nicely ... so that is one thing I learned from this project.

Thanks for all your input!! Once I get the hang of this I think I am really going to enjoy working with a peatless tufa!

{{gwi:68995}}

{{gwi:68998}}

Marly

Awesome leaf! I am inspired!
I think the lack of strength might be that it is still wet. Is it "damp" to the touch? Like paper mache, it will get very hard when it dries, and the cement in the mix will make it somewhat waterproof too, and strengthen it even more than were it straight "mache".
Sticking it on front of a fan might help.
When I do my mix, I just leave it to drain in a strainer for about half an hour, and then add the cement. If it needs more water, I add it.
Usually when working with cement, it is true that the more water you add the less strength the piece will have, but with papercrete, the paper pulp, when dry, is very stong on its own, and the addition of the cement makes it just that much stronger.
I have made pieces with paper mache, and it so durable and strong it is sometimes hard to believe. I believe when your leaf dries completely it will have much more strength than it does now. Keep me posted, I love your leaf!

I just used a garbage-bag-ful (?word) of paper that I'd shredded. It works great if you put it in a big pot with water overnight---then turn the heat on and let the schlurp simmer a bit. Then it just sat. All of this was happening while I was doing other things----so it isn't labor-intensive. The consistency was just like pudding--after I used my mixer---don't tell my husband that I used my new Kitchen Aid, but there it is. Anything for hypertufa.

Wouldn't want this to fall off the board although I know it is still far away from that end.

Redhead... I have lots more questions for you... I'm putting together a tutorial with pics on making papercrete using your inspiration. I keep coming back to this thread with all my experiments and am having fun!!!! One big boo boo I made already... I have been doing a 2/4/1 mix instead of your 2/6/1!!! Duh me!! lol I'm going to try making up a small item with that correct ratio and see how it fares in comparison.

for the inspiration to try this!!

Marly

Hi Marly,:)
Its true I use the 2/6/1 mix, because I have done a lot of paper mache, and its really just an industrial paper mache, this papercrete stuff. I was thinking of adding silica sand to my next project, its supposed to add "stickiness".
Keep me posted on your projects and I will keep you posted on mine and we'll learn together!

heyall

I was making hypertufa troughs 15+ years ago, when they were just crude dish/box like things.MOST of them are still going strong !
Only the ones that I made too thin are breaking apart.
7 years ago, I added more cement to the mix and THEY are indestructable.....

With the papercrete- this is a thought-- Is the BAGGED paper fine enough(not clumpy) to add to the cement(or lime) in a DRY form ?
ALL dry things mix better together than adding dry to WET.....

Then just add water to the whole mix.
Any thoughts/experiences on that ?
Geno

PS I have added my web page to you other art lovers.....

Here is a link that might be useful: Anyone can Draw !

Thats a good idea Geno! If the paper was really really fine I think it would work. When it gets wet it has a tendency to clump together, which is why a mixer is needed, to combine everything together really well. When I can get out and experiment again I will give that a whirl. :)
Heather

Hello redhead!!!

Great to see your doing the papermache!!! I have still not gotten one made:) have been away for a while due to my little one getting cast's put back on and other things. But now I'm ready to get back into my "stuff" as my hubby calls it:)
The adding dry bagged mix sounds interesting! I thinkI will try one with that stuff, and I only use the silica sand for my projects, so I will throw some of that in also, and see what comes out:) the weather here is high in humidity, so I am going to have to see how long it will take to dry...I will let ya know:)
hawaii50mom: Carole

OH DEAR!!!

I meant to post this tutorial in a separate thread!!!! Oh dear!!

Can any of you managers delete this long posting just above this one... I'll repost it in the separate thread I meant to put it in in the first place!!

Marly

Gee, Marly, hijacking redhead's thread. How dare you! LOL

I don't think there's a manager for this forum since Stella went bye-bye. You might have to contact Spike directly but it'd be easier just to start a new thread.
peak

Ugh... fingers working faster than my brain.

There was a post on this topic in the Suggestions and Comments forum, can I edit a post after submitting?. The solution was to email Spike directly and beg forgiveness and absolution for your GW sins.

peak

Oh Peak, THANKS so much for the laugh! I really needed that!

I will go directly to the confessional booth of Spike and beg his forgiveness! lol

Can someone point me in the right direction?? lol

Marly

SpikeDaMan@Absolution.Gardenweb.com

Oh how funny! Marly, how hard did your planter get? How long did it take to dry? How light is it? I'm still working on an exact mix, and different additives to put in. I could stand on mine and it was thin! I know it is a labor intensive process but I think with a large scale blender it could be really easy to whip up big batches really quickly! Now you are my inspiration! Thanks for the tutorial, its hard to explain and your tutorial does a wonderful job.

Redhead... thank YOU!! lol I just took the pictures and added the captions.

Yes, I was totally delighted that this planter is VERY tough! It dried in a couple of days actually. I put it on my front porch which gets the full south force of the sun.

I wanted to ask you Redhead, about colouring the crete. I've been asked on another forum where I posted the tutorial if you can colour it. You had mentioned that you can and I wonder what sort of colouring do you recommend and how long do you think the colouring will work? Would you use like a Tempera paint, or an acrylic paint, or a dye?

Still lots of questions! I made a mushroom as well and it was a HOOT to make. So easy. I imbedded beads on the top and they seem to be staying in nicely.

Here is a pic of it...
{{gwi:69000}}

Marly

I just added color to the paper pulp when I made it, but I think that it could be dyed, or painted just like any concrete piece. I'd like to try some washes, or even using different colored pulp paper, and "stacking" the different colors to make stripes or patterns. What do you think?

Spike... THANK YOU! I only get this ONE chance to goof up so I better be vewwwy caweful fwom now on! lol

Thanks again for fixin' my big mess up!

Marly

OOps meant to say papercrete!!! buddyfly, your mushroom looks really cool, how big is it?
hawai50mom:Carole

heyall----

I have been wanting to try papercrete for YEARS....

Yesterday I went to Lowes and got supplies
(portland,sand,cellofiber insulate,strengthener )all under 25 bucks.

They didnt have fiberglass fibers.

I am wanting to make sculpture with it.

I am thinking about carving styro packing as a mold.....or maybe pouring into sand.

Geno

Hi again Redhead, I have been working on 2 log planters since you first posted your project. I have yet to get either finished. I think I bit off more that I could chew for my first time. I'm having to do them in stages. Not that I'm complaining because I'm enjoying myself, but I'm also impatient. I really like working with the papercrete so far. It gives a longer time to work with the mix and it sticks to itself better when I put wet mix on dry mix, which I like. Clean-up is easier also. It doesn't stick to your tools or your hands as bad as regular tufa. I do wonder about the strength, although I think it will be plenty strong for the projects I'm doing.

I have decided not to use tufa over the top, I don't think it's needed. I think it would just add weight. One day in the neer future I hope to be finished with these two projects. I will try to figure out how to post pics. I've never done that and don't have a clue. Maybe my husband can help me figure it out. I'm so computer illiterate. Thanks for turning us on to papercrete. Amy

Amy, there's a good tutorial on inserting pictures in your GardenWeb posts at the Hot Pepper FAQ.

How Do I Add Pictures to My Posted Messages

I've found that Photobucket is the best place to upload your images for this.

HTH

peak

bump

bump too

Hey Marly,
Did you add the beads later or stick them to the inside of the mold before pouring???

Lee

Lee... I formed the papercrete on the OUTside of a bowl and then pressed the beads into the wet surface of the crete. It is still out there in the garden with all the beads still on it.

Marly

From what I hear, people are building houses out of papercrete. A water resistant coating is applied to the outside to protect it. Some use plasters of earth or cement.
They would use a cement mixer for large batches.

It would be interesting to build things up freeform, like people do with cob, which is basicly clay, sand, and straw, and also used to build houses. This provides a much thicker mix, which can be laid up into walls or sculptural features. I've seen ovens outdoors in the shape of a phoenix bird.
Papercrete wouldn't be as fireproof as cob but it could be as versital.
I'll try to provide some links later, but you might do a search, if interested.

Thanks Marly! Any trouble with the papercrete falling off the bowl, or is it sticky?

Lee

Hmmm.... trying to think back to when I made that... I think the papercrete pulp didn't slide off the bowl or slump like hypertufa can. It doesn't 'stick' to the bowl though... I sorta 'banked' it up the sides.

Marly

>From what I hear, people are building houses out of papercrete. A water resistant coating is applied to the >outside to protect it. Some use plasters of earth or cement. They would use a cement mixer for large >batches.

DrynDusty-

Check out the site at www.Daycreek.com for more information on using papercrete for building. The house building being documented is a cordwood technique using papercrete for the mortar.

NMJo

bump

Now this is ambitious.:)

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:68993}}

Hi David,
The link does not work. See below...

"A Hotlinking Error Has Occured!

We have detected a hotlinking error. Hotlinking is when you link to images or NON html files on 100freemb.com from another host. Hotlinking is not allowed for our FREE Accounts. Hotlinking is allowed for our paid accounts. Your account can be upgraded in the user section when you have logged in."

I'd love to see it though! :)

Stay warm,
Heather

Hi Redhead.

After you see the hotlink message, all you need to do is to click in the URL/address area of your browser and press Enter. The shed looks really cute!

Rgds,
Malkie

Hu everyone,
Is anyone else having a problem? Still can't see it. Same message over and over. I pressed enter and still got the same thing, Even after I copied/pasted into new browser window, I still cannot see it.

Stay warm,
Heather

Bump

Dixiesmom

So WHO made the shed?????

So how thick do the papercrete bowls need to be? From the pics they look like about an inch. For anyone looking for pot molds, our dollar store has some cool plastic containers that look like they would work great :)

The shed/hall looks really cool :) Would be nice to know if it has plywood under the roof before I try it (HAHA)? Wonder if my wife would EVER goin it?

John

What's the story on that shed? Somehow I missed that the first & second time around. I would love to know! Don't they make houses out of papercrete? Now I know they make sheds.

I have no idea who made the shed. It was a link that I could not get to. My suggestion would be to do a search for papercrete shed. I don't think it was anyone at the forum, it is more of a concrete builders/alternate building materials thing. Yes they do make houses out of papercrete-mostly in dry climates.
To answer the question about thickness-I usually make my stuff about 1/4 inch think. The paper holds together nicely and adds great strength.

There is a beautiful papercrete birdbath with a cute papercrete duckie in the middle posted elsewhere that appears to be over an inch thick. It's gorgeous.
So if it can handle being a birdbath papercrete can handle anything.

To keep the thread going I would like to let those interested in PC to go to the yahoo forum for papercrete. We sorta work in large batches and have heavy duty tools to shread the paper. I started using a pressure washer to tear the the paper apart. Soak it first 2-3 hours. Newspaper will swell up so if you pack it into a 5 gallon bucket it will be reall hard to get out. You can add cement, clay, dirt, sand, flour, almost anything to thicken up the PC. However, it holds together by itself. I also have used a drywall mixer on a heavy duty drill to blend the PC. Better have some strong arms though. When adding cement, go ahead and add it while the PC is runny. After the cement is mixed into the PC, dump it on some screen or coarse sand to drain the water off. Believe it or not, the concrete stays in the mix and all that drains off is clear water. PC Voodo. I have a box I made with 1/8 inch screen wir I use to drain the PC I use for molding. It is cool to see the water drain out and all that is left is a gray mass of PC. Add the sand or what ever you want while the mix is fluid. Again the PC Vodoo. With a little 1300 PSI pressure washer you should be able to tear up 3 gallons of PC ready for molding in 5-10 minutes. Kids make paper Mache that last for years without being reall particular about what they add to the paper. So go ahead and make a batch. You will start making bigger batches then you will want to talk to someone about making one of the big shreaders. Dont Worry, Make Slurry
K

Here is a link that might be useful: yahoo papercrete forum

Tufaenough, or anyone else, do you have a photo of a papercrete birdbath?