I get down on my hands and knees and pull them out and put them into a 5 gallon bucket which fills up very fast. then I dump the 5 gal bucket and get back down on my knees and fill it up again.

I try to pull some weeds every day.

good luck.

we are all looking for the magic that will eliminate weeds.

This same question comes up from time to time. The key is to keep up with the weeds before they get out of control. How? Hoeing and mulching with grass clipping, compost or whatever. Do it when your plants are very small, that's the time when they need helps most in their struggle to take hold. I hoe and mount dirt around my plants on daily basis, so the weeds have no chance. If you do this daily, then it is a light 15 minutes job, but if you waited until the weeds are overtaking your plants then it looks impossible and you are likely frustrated, and may even give up. Keeping up your weeding and watching your plants for possible other problems on DAILY basis is the key in successful gardening, in my opinion.

believe me, I just spend the past several days weeding about 200 sq ft of failed onion crop, knee high field grass. wasn't tough, just tedious.

It's tough to find the time to weed, especially with it's like 95 out. or when it's been raining for 8 days straight.

the problem I have when weeding plants when they are small, I tend to pull them up too., especially around the peas and beans.

I wonder what percentage of soil is actually microsopic weed seeds.

weed after good watering or a heavy rain, the soil is loose and weeds pull up easily.

also, that's what we all do after everything is in the ground and we're waiting for harvest...weed...weed..weed

like others have said, mulch, compost, hoe, and keep up on it.

I also do it the togo4 way, 5 gal bucket

p.s. the pictures of gardens and those on TV you see have been heavily weeded and mulched just before the shoot.

I intensive garden, meaning my weeds are shaded out by my vegetable plants. Although small by comparasin to many gardens out there, I think I pulled less than a 1/4 of a 5 gal bucket of weeds this whole growing season from a 100 sq/ft deep bed. I have filled at least 8 - 5 gal buckets just with garden plant pruning.

It kinda sucks, as I don't have the weeds for the green needs for my compost heap.

I use the raised bed, compost soil type of gardening. Most of the soil that the seedlings grow in, comes right out of the compost pile.

I put all of my garden clippings into the compost building, where the temperatures reach a point where most diseases and weed seeds are eliminated. I have few problems with weeds in this type of gardening. The biggest problem is getting enough of that soil to keep the plants happy.

The soil in these boxes settles and breaks down, and must be refilled from time to time.

On the other hand, the part of my yard devoted to ornamentals and fruit trees growing in native soil, is always a weedy mess - and difficult to keep up with, especially because most of my time is spent tending the veggies.

Oh well - can't win em all!

Bejay

my garden is full of weeds. I went on vacation at exactly the wrong time and had too much on my plate after returning and then...yep you guessed it...I hurt my back...but everything is growing and producing the last of the spring stuff...I am ready to weed and get the fall stuff in. I put tomato plants in this morning....

ruthieg -

You say your putting tomato plants in now? I've never considered planting this late in my zone 10. When would they ripen for you? Perhaps, I will try a 2nd round - is there anything special about them - I mean are they early, late or a certain variety that you plant this late?

Just curious.

Bejay

I do a lot of intercropping with fast maturing crops or ones that can be harvested at any time like spinach, lettuce,radishes, beets, basil, etc. All these things can be planted inbetween slower growing, later maturing crops. I weed as I harvest/thin. I have never had a problem with weeds. Every availble inch of ground has something growing in it. Weeds never get a chance because by the time the quick maturing crops come out the slower growing ones are well established and shade out weeds.

I do heavily mulch my paths.

I read a book on companion planting this summer, what I do sounds very similar to that, though my sole purpose was to get the maxium harvest out of my garden.

Annie Lee is right, a good sharp hoe is a valuable tool in the early spring. Weeds and grasses are annuals for the most part although there are zillions of seeds that come up, and more come in all along with the wind, water and birds, but continued maintainence of hoeing till the plants are up big enough, then mulching will keep things well under control.

I will go out and take a couple of pictures after I have my coffee and breakfast which is a good illustration of the difference between my garden and my neighbors. He is old and had some health problems, but hired a guy to get down on his hands and knees and pull his weeds two or three times this summer, then let it go. He does not hoe, cultivate or mulch, I do all the above and have not spent as much time as he paid the guy for doing. After mulching, I see a few stray weeds or grass occasionally, and they are very easily pulled up before they go to seed.
Bill P.

O.K., as promised, I went out and snapped a few pics as examples, as follows.
Bill P.

In this first one of Tom's garden, he hired Gary to pull ALL the weeds and grass two, perhaps three times this summer. I sharpened my hoe, demonstrated how to how shallowly just under the surface, quick and easy, he tried it but was clumbsy with it and prefeffed to crawl around and pull them.
Tom later ran his weed eater over some of it.
{{gwi:88963}}

I do not have much problems keeping mine looking like this. Those two green plants in the center foreground are some blackeyed peas that I mowed over a month ago and they are still trying to make a come back. You can find a stray clump of grass or weed here or there occasionally, but it is not much trouble to just pull them while walking thru the garden.

{{gwi:88964}}

I let the grass grow along the end of the garden where the header that the soak hoses attach to is, it helps shade the PVC pipe, but it is about time to crank up the weed eater and cut it back before it seeds out. That is okra in the row on the left and pepper plants in the row on the right.

{{gwi:88965}}

O.K., as promised, I went out and snapped a few pics as examples, as follows.
Bill P.

In this first one of Tom's garden, he hired Gary to pull ALL the weeds and grass two, perhaps three times this summer. I sharpened my hoe, demonstrated how to hoe shallowly just under the surface, quick and easy, he tried it but was clumsy with it and prefeffed to crawl around and pull them.
Tom later ran his weed eater over some of it.
{{gwi:88963}}

I do not have much problems keeping mine looking like this. Those two green plants in the center foreground are some blackeyed peas that I mowed over a month ago and they are still trying to make a come back. You can find a stray clump of grass or weed here or there occasionally, but it is not much trouble to just pull them while walking thru the garden.

{{gwi:88964}}

I let the grass grow along the end of the garden where the header that the soak hoses attach to is, it helps shade the PVC pipe, but it is about time to crank up the weed eater and cut it back before it seeds out. That is okra in the row on the left and pepper plants in the row on the right.

{{gwi:88965}}

Please pardon the ddoouble posting. I don't know how that happened. I didn't know the gun was loaded, honest! ":^) I think that my ISP hiccuped while trying to swallow.
Bill P.

gonefishin -

Time to get out the ol' hoe and get those at the bottom of the pic.

If it were me, I'd grab a big piece of cardboard (like a shipping computer box) and shade those things out before they get "wings."

Just my 2 c's.

Bejay

One strategy is to work your soil, and water it ( but don't plant.) A week or so later, turn the soil again, and water it. Repeat for a couple weeks.

With luck this gets all the weed seeds that are in your soil, to germinate - and you disrupt them so that they die, before planting. After a couple weeks of this treatment, you plant your seeds, and most of the weed seeds have been eliminated already.

My sister has used this approach, but I haven't.

I am finding that lasagna gardening works well to keep weeds away. You can read about it on the Soil forum. I haven't direct-seeded into a lasagna bed though, so I don't know if this approach will work for your situation.

I also pull weeds every time I go out (in my traditional, non-lasagna beds). I have a nasty one at the moment, and think I need to take a new approach in that particular bed. Probably make it a lasagna bed.

MULCH, MULCH, MULCH. Intensive planting and raised beds do wonders also. That landscaping fabric seems like a great idea, but my dad used it this year and had the same problem. It lets in water and way too much light to even make a dent in the weeds. I love weeding - therapeutic - but never have any but the occasional weed to pluck out. Good soil tilth helps a lot, too, to make it less of a job to pull any. If you put a really heavy mulch, and just keep putting it on every time it starts to thin, you'll have nice soil that weeds just pull out of with barely a tug. And very few weeds to begin with. Don't be afraid to plant intensively. Oh, and the old adage about the gardeners footsteps being the best fertilizer...totally true. I finally learned to plant as close to my door as possible. Like...right at the door and all around the yard and house perimeter. Visit your plants several times a day just to say hi, and you'll catch those weeds before they get big.
Good luck!

Thanks Bejay, but I want that grass there to walk on and to shade that header pipe, hot as it is here the water is nearly boiling after sitting in the sun! ":^) But you are right, it does need attention, which it will probably get today.

Patty, that is a good approach and a good thing to do. It will take care of a few zillion weed and grass seed near the surface, but there are more waiting deeper to be turned up and always more coming in. After a few years, it is much easier to control them, however. Just my observations.
Bill P.

I agree with the intensive gardening/mulching/composting school of thought here. Also wanted to add that as years go by and you keep on top of your weeds, they will become less and less as they are not allowed to produce seed. Of course some seeds lie dormant for many years, and some will always blow in, but you will see a difference if you keep on top of them.

Bill, those double posts are some kind of glitch with Gardenweb - no need to apologize, they happen sometimes. Your garden looks great (not many weeds) especially for its size and not being raised!

Hey gang- New here, and wondering about the pic with the hay. Is that a better option for weed control than mulch?

What are your thoughts on pine needles?

Pine needles take long time to bio-degrade and are slightly acidic in nature.
I use ploughing(tilling), digging and mulching as methods to keep the garden weed free.Bermuda grass is still a problem.
Use sharp tools to remove the weed after tilling.
If the weed covers large area then I use Round up chemical to kill the weed.

Hi mmqchdygg, if that was my picture that had some hay (straw) for mulch, yeah it works good. My favorite is shredded oak leaves, followed closely by good coastal bermuda hay which has no seeds. That in the picture is some poor grade hay and some straw which works but is coarser and does not disintegrate and feed the soil as soon as I would like for it to. Some would find the durability of it a plus, but I like for mine to be all gone by late summer / early fall so that it will not be in the way of planting my fall / winter cover crop of broad leaf mustard greens, purple top turnips and rutabaggas.

After some time of keeping a garden as clean as possible, it becomes easier with less weeds. There will always be some hoeing, weeding and mulching needed, but once I get my mulch down the battle is about over.

Good luck with your efforts.
Bill P.

bejay I'm a little late in answering this but I always have two crops of tomatos...we don't get any freezes here in our area of TX until way late in the year and Jul or even Aug tomato's have plenty of time... for my fall crop I plant Romas exclusively...they are really one of my favorite tomatos anyway and they always come through for me in the fall...Sorry I didn't come back to this thread...

also, that's what we all do after everything is in the ground and we're waiting for harvest...weed...weed..weed

Speak for yourself. I detest weeding and do everything in my power to prevent them from growing in the first place. I'd say I've done less that 45 minutes of hand picking weeds this entire year.

Doug,

The key to getting rid of weeds and keeping an area weed free is planning far enough ahead and constant maintenance. I don't recommend Roundup, you don't need it.

Weed eating is a futile effort unless your taking out the roots as well. So long as the roots are still in the ground, most of your weeds will continue to come back. You need to completely eliminate the entire plant: top and bottom.

Depending on what "weeds" were in your soil that you tilled, you most likely brought up dormant weed seeds that were too deep to sprout and broke up stems (crab grass for instance) into smaller pieces where the nodes still sprouted.

If tilling is the chosen method, then do so at least six weeks in advance, and preferably months in advance in order for the soil tilth to build back again as well as for dormant seeds to sprout so you can skim them to kill them as they come up. Do this a few times for a couple of weeks until they've subsided, then you're ready to plant.

Next you need to mulch and mulch well (2-3 inches). This will prevent further sprouting of weeds and prevent migrating wind born seeds from taking root in your soil. If you plant vegetable seeds, you can mulch with a thin layer of shredded leaves or grass clippings or compost or straw, etc. When the seedlings get 3-4 inches tall you can mulch at a greater thickness and more as they get larger. Mulch will help keep your soil moist and the soil temperature stable.

I use grass clippings because my neighbors provide me with a steady supply for free.

If you want to go the newspaper route, try Freecycle.org and ask for newspaper. You might be pleasantly surprised. There's probably someone out there (like me) with plenty of newspaper to share, especially if it's going to good use and getting recycled. You can also call your local newspaper, tell them what you need it for and ask if they have any discards.

You need to do layers of 8-12 damp (soak them in a bucket of water first) sheet, then cover with soil. If you don't it will dry and fly away. But if you can cover with soil, or mulch, it would work. You can also try cardboard. Call local businesses for both. You can also try black plastic mulch, but it won't add organic matter to your soil.

The issue with straw are seeds which might sprout and cause problems. It works great, just make sure you know what you're getting:

When using hay or straw, you need to know your source and exactly what is in the bales.

Hay and Straw Glossary
A popular organic mulch, hay is commonly used to protect soil and plants from the elements, to line pathways, and to address various needs in the garden. What many people don't realize, however, is that various products are often labeled as "hay" at garden centers, but there are many different types of hay and straw that are commonly sold in bales. While they are easily confused, it's important for gardeners to become familiar with the differences.

Salt hay
Salt hay, or Spartina patens, is a grassy plant that grows in salt marshes and wetlands. Martha has long used salt hay in her gardens. It is useful for keeping weeds from growing in paths, preventing runoff, and keeping soil from turning into mud whenever it rains or the garden is watered. A layer of salt hay will keep soil moist and encourage worms to come to the surface, which will help to aerate the soil. It also makes an attractive path to walk on between garden rows. Salt hay is an ideal all-purpose mulch because its seeds won't grow away from salt water so it won't germinate in your garden.

Golden straw
What is commonly termed "Golden straw" is either oat straw, Avena, or wheat straw, Triticum. This straw is a by-product of the process of separating oat or wheat seeds from their stalks. Golden straw is often used as bedding in horse stalls; because there are no seeds, the horses won't eat it. This straw spreads nicely, and the lack of seeds means there is no risk of it germinating in your garden. It can be used in the same way as salt hay.

Wheat straw
An excellent choice for straw for use in the vegetable garden. Lay down six inches in height in the fall then direct sow seeds in the spring. No need to dig. There will be a handful of weak sprouts from seeds, just pull them out.

Feed hay
Just as its name implies, feed hay is used to feed livestock. Though inexpensive and plentiful, it is not a good choice for use in gardens because it is full of seeds. The main ingredient of feed hay is alfalfa, Medicago sativa. It also frequently contains flowers and seeds from many other plants and weeds such as clover and golden rod. These seeds are likely to germinate, resulting in a garden full of weeds rather than flowers and vegetables.

Soil Solarization is another technique you can use, using clear 6 mil plastic. It has been around for a long time. It's effective for those who have patience and can plan ahead. A drawback is that it kills beneficial organisms and bacteria in the soil.

What I do is lay roof shingles over any area where I want to create a bed. Within two weeks vegetation underneath is weak and pretty close to dead. I wait until the soil is crumbly underneath, sink my spade in and start hand sifting and pulling out everything then I crumble it back in the spot along with compost so it's light and airy and never walk on it again. Then I'll mulch with leaves and/or grass clippings. Usually the latter.

I don't do huge areas of space at a time. Literally just lay them on top of the grass and overlap them a bit so light doesn't get thru. After a couple of weeks and after a rain check to see if the soil is "friable" (soil crumbles in your hands). Length of time after a rain will depend on whether your soil is sandy, clay, etc. For me it can be 2-3 days in certain parts of the yard, 1 day in another area of the yard. When you lift the shingles, you'll see there is little to no grass and what you can see is yellow or white. Sink a spade in and lift up, then just get in there with your hands and fingers and take a chunk and pull out the roots. This works fabulously with bermuda grass because the main runner stem is in tact but the roots have died off so all you have to do is follow the runners. Sometimes they're 4 feet long. But they're soooo much easier to get out! Much less work than tilling and sifting.

Then crumble the soil lightly back into the spot with your fingers. As you crumble take out out any weed matter and into the compost pile they go. This is the best time to incorporate compost or any other soil amendments. Now don't walk on the area or you'll compact the soil.

I'll take out large rocks as well since we grow rocks around here. I've responded to "Wanted: Rocks" on freecycle.org a couple of times so now they're gone and have found use to fill holes under fences so dogs don't escape.

The problem with tilling bermuda grass is that when you do that, you create a lot of little pieces that are not easy to find and get out without a sifter. If one tiny piece with a node gets left behind, it'll take root and take off and you have the same problem all over again.

Violet, I don't question the fact that you have a lovely garden, although you never post pictures of your own garden or say what size it is, to my knowledge. However, some of the extensive amounts of material that you copy and paste as a public service is very good, some is definitely flawed. Such As: > >"Feed hay
Just as its name implies, feed hay is used to feed livestock. Though inexpensive and plentiful, it is not a good choice for use in gardens because it is full of seeds. The main ingredient of feed hay is alfalfa, Medicago sativa. It also frequently contains flowers and seeds from many other plants and weeds such as clover and golden rod. These seeds are likely to germinate, resulting in a garden full of weeds rather than flowers and vegetables."> >

Hay is neither plentiful nor inexpensive in our area. People from Texas have been driving as far as Kansas and Idaho to haul good hay in here. My oldest son has made three trips to Idaho with an 18 wheeler with a flatbed trailer that hauls 350 bales of alfalfa each trip. By the time he gets back, the dealer here has sold out at high prices.

Hay is an important cash crop and people in the business do not let their fields grow a bunch of weeds. Some hay like Coastal Bermuda is basically sterile and is planted by sprigging green springs into the ground. There is practically no seed in it, and the second or third cutting has an even less likely hood of having seed. This little was very fine, sweet smelling and excellent for mulching with or making compost. I do not recall one seed germinating from it that I could attribute to the hay.

Yes, keeping a garden weed free is almost impossible, a continuing job, but it can be done. After many years of controlling unwanted weeds and grass and mulching, I have few problems. However, after two months of near record rainfall and flooding, grass is creeping in from the edges and some work lies ahead of me when it dries up some.

Keep working at it JohnDoug, it will get easier with time.
Bill P.

Weeding isn't my favorite thing to do but everyday I am in my garden and every day I am weeding...weeding weeding...I also use the method of keeping every square inch covered and shaded by a plant and it does work...I walk through my garden every morning to see what is going on and/or what is happening and every weed that I see gets yanked...if you start early and stay with it...you won't have much of a problem but it does take dedication and every year it gets better and better...

I cut holes in my black landscape fabric to plant seeds - either an X with the corners tucked in, or a row, pinned back with earth staples (or just trimmed). I only have to weed a tiny bit, in that amount of space where earth is exposed. I lightly till in plenty of organic compost every spring, lay down an irrigation system, then staple the fabric over the top. It just makes life easier, because when you work full time, spending the weekend weeding the garden is no fun.

I've linked to my garden pictures below (well, last year's) if you want to see them - the oldest ones are at the bottom of the page. Note that this year the onions are also planted through slits in landscape fabric, and are growing gangbusters instead of competing with weeds.

Here is a link that might be useful: Daria's garden (2006)

I accidentally posted this on the wrong forum the other day, but here it is again -- I carpeted my garden and also have been using raised beds. The combination keeps weeds out nicely and it's much easier to weed in raised beds vs. in ground beds:

{{gwi:88966}}

Here is a link that might be useful: I carpeted my vegetable garden today

gonefishin,

I don't question the fact that you have a lovely garden, although you never post pictures of your own garden or say what size it is, to my knowledge.

Photos are discussed occasionally, an existing thread is here. Tell you what, if someone wants to send me a decent digital camera, I'd be happy to post photos!

I have also discussed my own gardens though the threads which contained those posts have since been purged and I can't recall the main topic since they are always tangents posted in direct response to questions such as your own.

I've been gardening all my life, primarily as a vegetable gardener. I work in a 2000 square foot vegetable public demonstration garden as well as large flowering perennial and themed herb beds including dying, medicinal, culinary, etc. The soil is so rich in the vegetable garden due to great quantities of compost added every year since it's inception 12 years ago (pretty sure it's been 12 now) that the potato plants got larger than 5 feet tall even with hilling. No fertilizer is used, it's challenging enough to keep up with the plants as it is. Produce is regularly donated to local food charities which provide food for those in need. The soil is so fabulous it's almost impossible for any home owner browsing the gardens to expect their plants to be as large and healthy. I know even my own plants will never look so good unless I start spending money on yards and yards of continual compost.

I also have 12 beds of all types all around the house that are now finally maturing to the point I'm going to have to start offering plants for SASE at the GardenWeb plant forum or CraigsList them for sale or Freecycle.org them. I have spoken at a state conference on Heirloom Vegetable Gardening and given local classes on vegetable gardening.

I never said that all hay was plentiful in all areas. That statement was specific to "feed hay". Not that anyone would want to use feed hay in their garden, but I would think "feed hay" is more plentiful in Texas than "salt hay" would be. With the price of corn going up due to the demand for growing it out for ethanol, farmers are looking for grain alternatives to the previously less expensive corn.

As with anything, materials and access to them are dependent on what is abundant in your area. Every area will be different, I try to post as much information as possible not only for the original poster of the thread, but also for lurkers or regular members who may find the information useful. In no way will 100 percent of readers find all information useful, there are far too many environmental variables and a little common sense must be exercised. Thus, the entire purpose of an open public forum, input from all that participate. This is what makes it interesting, informative, useful.

Here are potential sources for "feed hay" in Texas:

Pinehaven Ranch
1040 CR 3505
Quinlan, TX 75474
t: 903-883-4010
e: lewquint@gfc.net

Master Made Feeds Inc.
702 S. Main St.
Grapevine, TX 76051
t: 877-849-9899

RJ Mangold Grain Co. Inc.
P.O. Box 69
La Coste, TX 78039
t: 830-762-3323
w: http://www.mangoldgrain.com
e: sales@mangoldgrain.com

Double B Farms
1089 FM 3053
Kilgore, TX 75662
t: view phone 903-983-2210
e: doublebfarms@hotmail.com

Allied Feeds Inc.
208 Hutcheson
Cuero, TX 77954
t: 800-242-3500
w: http://www.fulopep.com
e: mdachavez@hotmail.com

Running Wild Ranch
5801 S FM 898
Ector, TX 75439
t: view phone 903-271-6607
w: http://www.runningwildranch.com
e: raneaw@yahoo.com

Conroe Feeders Supply
100 S. Main
Conroe, TX 77301
t: 936-756-5549
e: bbergfeld@estarnet.net

Perkins Feed and Supply
8480 Brock Hwy
Lipan, TX 76462
t: 817-253-6710
e: mperkins1@lipan.net

Rio Rico Ranch and Sale Co.
P.O. Box 10
Mercedes, TX 78570
t: 956-656-1027
w: http://www.rioricoranch.net
e: riosaddle@aol.com