since seed soaking is a standard procedure

How so? Pre-soaking seeds may be done by some perhaps but it is hardly a "standard procedure". Much less soaking in willow water. Not only would the majority of gardeners not have access to willow water to begin with, its use and effectiveness is at best debatable.

If any seed is coated or treated it has to be labeled as such per law.

So it boils down to your choice.

Dave

Well, I meant that it's pretty standard procedure for big seeds that will take a while underground to get thoroughly moistened. I wouldn't think of planting legumes without soaking them. I call it "standard" just because it is around here at least. All gardeners I know do it. It may be a local tradition.

I certainly am not suggesting that everyone should soak their seeds in willow water. It was just a question of "if I have it, is it worth using it for this?"

That's a very good point that seeds that are coated would need to be labelled as such.

The effectiveness of willow water is not an old wives tale. It is well understood that willow stems are good sources of auxins, which are natural plant rooting hormones, though there are good synthetic hormones that do the job as well. Their effectiveness is documented in professional journals for at least rooting of cuttings. I think poplar may be similarly useful.

Great idea, I'm trying it now on seeds for indoor starting. :)

As for "most gardeners" not having access to willow water, ANY willow will do.

Willow water contains a lot of ethylene inhibiting substances.

Some germinating seeds will benefit for the ethylene inhibiting substances...some won't...some will see negative effect.

The actual rooting benefit from reduced ethylene inhibition varies greatly from good to near-nothing. It's still a good idea to use a rooting hormone rather than an ethylene inhibitor for most cuttings if you genuinely need to speed up rooting.

...or you could just crush up an aspirin in a quart of water for the same effect without cutting up dozens of willow twigs.

...as far as it's effect on beans...dunno.

I think what you get from willows for rooting is IBA. Willows happen to have salycilic acid (aspirin) as well, but that doesn't particularly helps rooting. I think it does resist infection by pathogens, which is handy. So I don't think a dissolved aspirin will really encourage rooting.

Now, by the same token, I don't think IBA will relieve a headache

The IBA found in willow/salix is pretty much concentrated in the tips/meristems of actively growing shoots...and the amount found depends a lot on how many of these tips/stems you put in your water concentrate (as well as the time of season you harvest/make the concentrate).

Salicylic acid is an ethylene disruptor...very similar to acetylsalicylic acid (aspirin).

Yep, I've heard that you need new growth to make willow water.

I was just saying that it isn't clear that aspirin dissolved in water serves the same hormonal purpose as willow water.

Yeah, I glossed over and omitted that...probably shouldn't have.

My main point with the ethylene is that it's a germination inhibitor for some things (melons/lettuce) and actually helps other things (impatiens)...outside of the rooting effects.

Also, I prefer synthetic IBA/IAA/NAA/GA/etc (depending on the cutting) for important cuttings because willow water has an indeterminate amount of IBA (as well as SA) for the home gardener.

Too much IBA in a solution can slow things down or be more detrimental than using nothing at all. 2500-3000ppm IBA in rhododendrons is wonderful for rooting and root ball size...5000+ppm can easily cause rooting problems and failure.

Rooting a bunch of stuff you're not on a timetable for or you have a lot of source material...sure, willow water...rooting those few cuttings of plant material you don't have a lot of source material access or you need to get it rooted with assurance...I'm going for controlled hormones.

...seed germination, though...I'd check to make sure (if you can find out) that ethylene inhibitors don't disrupt it's germination.

I'm not a chemist so I don't really have a lot of information pertaining to tall the acronyms being thrown around in here. But here my $.02.

Seeds by their very nature sprout roots efficiently enough on their own. It doesn't require extra special chemical help from us to make it happen. Whether it be soaking in "willow water" or store bought rooting chemicals, I just think it's a little over the top. Plants have been making seeds and the seeds have been sprouting roots to grow new plants for over 350 million years. Humans, and their seed sprouting chemical additives (whether it be from an organic source such as willow, or not) have only been around for a minute fraction of that time.

rooting hormones do have their place and it very well may help in overall germination, but I think it would pretty unnecessary to use it on seeds.

Why don't you do a 6th grade science project and germinate several seeds in willow water, some with aspirin water and some with neither and let us know the results! Nancy

I agree that rooting hormone is probably overkill in seeds, but stems by their very nature form roots on their own too. The rooting hormone is just to make it a little more efficient. Plants have been making seeds and the seeds have been sprouting roots to grow new plants for over 350 million years, but some fraction of those seeds have also failed to sprout for at least that long. My question was partly whether the germination fraction, or germination speed could be improved.

P.S. I just noticed that there is a nice discussion of this on an old Gardenweb thread. See link. Doesn't look good for aspirin, and I think the 6th graders have been scooped.

Here is a link that might be useful: Aspirin as Willow Substitute

I don't know about willow water but soaking some seeds like, squash/melons family, some beans, onions, parsley, ... can speed up germination. I personally always soak cucumber and squash seeds for about 24 hours in plain water before planting. In ground or in potting soil they might not get enough moisture for a good while, when planted dry. You can even sprout them before planting. We know that it take most seeds shorter time to germinate in warmer environment.
YMMV

This post was edited by seysonn on Wed, Jan 15, 14 at 4:40

Very true, and as I said rooting aids have their place to be sure. I am not at all knocking the idea, just saying it's not something that I would personally worry about. It very well may help with germination rate and/or speed. I honestly don't know. I've always left them more or less to their own devices. My theory would be that non viable seeds could not be made viable by adding extra stuff to it, but I've been known to be wrong before (ask my wife, lol).

I guess the margin of error in the experiment would be that it would be hard to tell if the increase in germination speed was caused by the additive or simply the soaking itself.