Hi Lsoh-

For a large yield in a small area, you can't beat blackberries. At zone 5 though, you might need to go with a cold hardy variety like Chester... which is known for it's hardyness, and it's lack of thorns, but not it's flavor. Until I grew other varieties, I was fine with my Chester... just wait until they're dead ripe (when they go from a glossy to dull black in color). Now that I grow other varieties though, I agree, they're quite tart by comparison. You'll want a trellis for them.

Black raspberries are fine too, of course. But, you're not even going to get 1/4 the yield for the same area... and the thorns are vicious!
-Glenn

Glenn's made some good comments.

Personally, I don't like black rasp. They aren't as sweet as blackberries. For years I grew Jewel blackcaps, and finally took them out. They tasted the same as wild blackcaps around here.

I try to grow fruit that is a pleasure to eat fresh and doesn't require additional sugar. Blackberries fit the bill more than blackcaps for me.

Zone 5 can be tough for blackberries though. I would probably echo Glenn's comments and go with Chester, and make sure they are dead ripe when harvesting.

I'd recommend the black raspberries. They're perfectly hardy to zone 5 unlike most of the blackberries. You won't get any fruit at all if they don't survive the winter. But you should probably try the black raspberries first to be sure you like the taste. I actually like them better than the red raspberries and they make great jam. Black raspberries do have incredibly nasty thorns though. The variety I have is Bristol but I don't believe that they are a lot of differences among black raspberry varieties.

Thank you all for your thoughtful input. Good ideas.

Follow up question. I think I'm in 5b. These would be planted on the east side of my house. (with the dryer vent on that side). The plants would be protected from wind from the North and West. Would that wind protection, or radiant heat from the house improve my chances with black berries?

Thanks

Your sun exposure is fine for either type of berry. The dryer vent is insignificant. The proximity to the house is not much benefit, maybe a half-zone at most. Radiated house wall heat in summer can benefit fruit that needs heat to produce well; caneberries are not in this category.

A black raspberry clump does not take up much space, perhaps you can have both varieties. It the fruit is mainly for you, try the black-caps. If the fruit will include other people, go with the blackberries!

I really like both but if I had to only grow one it would be blackberries based mainly on their much higher productivity (10X?). Even with just a few trellised blackberry plants (this assumes that you can go vertical with your space), you'll probably have enough to eat them fresh daily for about 3 weeks and freeze a gallon or two to enjoy during the winter. A few black raspberry plants will just bear a daily hand full or so for fresh eating for about 3 weeks.

Raspberries are easy in zone 5. Blackberries are out of their comfort zone and you will have to give them extra care if you hope to get fruit.

The problem with blackberries is that they produce fruit on year old canes, and in zone 5, you are probably going to have cane die back due to freezing every winter. I'd expect the roots to live, so you will end up with plants every year, but no fruit because you have no year old canes.

If you want blackberries in zone 5, you'll have a better chance of getting berries if you plant Prime Jan or Prime Jim. They fruit on this year's wood.

Hi OregonWoodSmoke-
I'd agree that *most* blackberries are out of their comfort zone 5, but I believe you'll find that Chester is cold hardy down to zone 5. I've even seen some sites saying Chester can go down to zone 4 and 3, but I'm not sure I buy it. And yes, both with the black raspberries and blackberries, you'll get fruit on the 2nd year canes (floricanes).
I don't have any first-hand experience with Prime Jim/Jan, but I thought reviews of their first-year yield was mixed. If I'm misinformed, then I would agree that Prime Jim/Jan would also be candidates.
-Glenn

I have had black satin for 3 years.Triple crown for 2 years.
Doyle planted in August last year.Black satin and Triple crown need to be 4- 6 feet apart as the laterals grow 10-12 feet long.I have 12 plants each. Last year I picked 60 gallon of berries.The Doyle will bear this year.We had zero weather last winter with no winter kill.The Doyle berries are grown in Washington In. which is about 100 mile south of Indianapolis.They are 9 ft apart in the row and some of laterals are 20 ft long. Black satin are tart, the Triple crown are sweeter.Some of the berries are bigger than a quarter.My trellis is four 12 guage wire 3 4 5 6 ft above ground.I use vineyard clip to hold vines to the wires.As soon as they are done bearing I cut the old vine out.I use cardboard with mulch on top between rows to supress weeds and help hold moisture around plants.

I live in Zone 5b north central Ohio, too. I have both black raspberries and blackberries.

My black raspberries are great tasting, and grow in only partial sun. They aren't big producers but we enjoy what we get.

Two years ago I planted 5 Ouachita blackberries in full sun. They are listed as zone 5 in some catalogs, and zone 6 in others. Last year I got my first harvest. Not huge but I was very pleased for my first year of production. My 6-year-old son prefers the flavor of the black raspberries to the Oachitas. I think we probably picked the Ouachitas too early, should have waited til they lost a little of their glossiness. I liked them, though. We'll see if the Ouachitas survive the two inches of ice they received in our most recent storm!

My friend who lives around the corner from me has had good success with Navaho blackberries. Again, she may be pushing the zone a little bit, but hasn't had any trouble with winter kill. They are very productive and sweet.

I grew a Black Satin blackberry in a former home in the same town on the south side of an attached, unheated garage and never had any trouble with winter kill.

This summer I'm expanding my blackberry horizons by adding a Loch Ness, a thorny boysenberry, and two Black Pearl blackberries. I plan on laying the boysenberry and Black Pearl primocanes on the ground in the fall and mulching them well, as I know it gets too cold around here, for the Black Pearl especially!

Good luck with whatever you choose - you are sure to enjoy either or both.

MK