harvestman, Dave Wilson Nursery grows several million fruit trees a year. You can only buy these through resellers. I got DWN trees from a Naturehills in Nebraska last season. They grew good. The leaves did not drop like all the other trees, they froze off. So I am wondering if the were acclimated to a longer growing season. I ordered late so my local sources were sold out. Last wednesday Scottsmith posted he got Dave Wilson Nursery Trees from Trees of Antiquity. I put a link to that thread below. DWN grows their Warren pear on OHxF333 rootstock. PeacefulValley is also sold out of Warren Pear and so is Trees of Antiquty. Better call Neil.. Here is a link that might be useful: Best fesh prune fruit

Ace, my basic spray program only goes to 4 if you use Sevin. I don't need to control fireblight in any of the 100 orchards I manage, I only get small strikes that run their course innocently enough (I don't use full dwarf rootstock). I often have to do more sprays with stonefruit to control BR but on many sites we get adequate control with just 2 sprays if we forsake oil or add it in one of the insecticide sprays. Brown rot control can be maintained most efficiently with Orbit, Indar or Pristine and you can experiment with a single spray in early July to control BR on all your stonefruit. Sometimes this will solve the problem entirely up here. Mark has recently drawn my attention to Assail which I don't think is restricted in NY and he mentioned research that would indicate that it could protect for as long of intervals as Imidan. Thank you Mark! Don, it's crazy that you posted within minutes of my last post here and had some similar but more detailed advice. I wouldn't necessarily recommend using composted manure in large amounts however. If she has a deep rich soil with a lot of organic matter already she might want to go easy on enriching it further. I get the best fruit from soil not overly rich. It really depends on the sight, the species and rootstock as I'm fully aware you know.

Thanks. sorry long. Last long post. Hope you like talking about ground covers. This isn't sand by the way. I think pachysandra, vinca minor, and English ivy are by far cheaper and easier to get as plugs vs the ones suggested but I have to call around if that option is perused by the homeowner after we talk. I've seen unmaintained pachysandra in NJ under maples and it wasn't bad. Saplings can be cut/pulled when reach about a foot tall. But I read others say they get thousands of saplings and that preen or corn meal gluten pre-emergent would be needed, neither of which is an option for this house. They only want organic but don't want to spend on corn meal gluten every year which can get pricy. But anyway, in full sun like we're talking, I read pachysandra will grow poorly or die if the soil conditions etc aren't great and without watering or fertilizer and mulch (you can mulch it at first but it will turn to soil in a few years but then you can sprinkle more mulch or bagged mulched grass/leave mowings etc after to keep the moisture in and not need to water as often). the same full sun situation goes for English ivy but I read it might do a bit better in full sun than pachysandra. I don't know the USDA zones those people are in though who claim this, could be hotter there and more likely to do poorly. With poor growth in full sun, weeds can take over easier, and it won't recuperate as easy from winter stress especially with lots of full un-mulched leaves falling into it which will happen at this house. I read Vinca aka vinca minor, aka vinca bowels aka periwinkle does good in full sun (and dense shade), and it's cheap. But I read it spreads like crazy underground and don't want it to take over the existing shrubs in front of the house or the neighbors' lawns. It's an invasive problem in the woods and stuff in parts of the country becoming a mono crop type problem. Although here's a picture of it next to grass and I see none in the grass but maybe they are killing it selectively with a broadleaf-only killer. http://www.onlineplantguide.com/Plant-Details/2771/ Pachysandra also spreads underground but I don't think I've ever seen it take over or even show up in a bordering lawn where no herbicides were used. This thread seems really incorrect: http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1917442/my-neighbor-planted-vinca-minor Basically someone was worried their neighbor's new vinca minor lawn would take over their perennials and shrub yard. I read vinca minor is a rhizome but Someone replied "Since vinca spreads by rooting along its stems, just pull up the plants that venture outside the bounds. It is far easier to deal with than aggressive groundcovers that spread by rhizomes or underground stolons like ivy, hypericum, gallium or lamiastrum". And they said just a stout river rock border would keep it contained, and that it doesn't self seed, which I'm not sure if it does or not. don't want thousands of these seeds blowing on the neighbors' laws and growing. I'm reading a lot of articles/people say you need roundup or lots of vinegar and digging etc to contain vinca. This homeowner doesn't want to use roundup or any chems but they are okay with vinegar. I wonder if they just need maybe a few $3 gallons of vinegar each year and a sprayer to contain about 300 feet of vinca minor edges. I read vinca is really tough though even against roundups. Home Guides has an article saying you can just use 3" landscaper plastic edging and it will stay contained. People on forums said it will grow up and over no mater how high the border is but said they just mow it back and it stays contained. Maybe just an electric weedwacker can be used to scalp the edges once a month by the homeowner. This person says they maintain the edges simply by mowing and it looks great. http://tallcloverfarm.com/1398/periwinkle-vinca-major-covers-a-lot-of-ground With grass, if someone doesn't want to water, I still suggest to water it at least a full year (with an inch all at once, once per week, rain included) because that will grow deep roots and make it less likely to get wiped out in a drought once they stop watering. But if it still dies it doesn't take much to slice seed grass again for decent results (won't look like they spent thousands on sod or did follow up slice seedings and aerations every couple years with just one slice seeding but it will be decent). I would give the same watering recommendation for groundcover, preferably more than a full year until the watering stops and also to water some in mid summer if hasn't rained. I think the homeowner's goal is equally: -to be environmental and not need water or fertilizer once established and not have mow or pay for mowing or need much maintenance, especially with machines/mowing - them just hand pulling/pruning once or twice a year is okay. -have a cool looking yard The back yard and side also they wanted groundcover, and adds like 5X more to the Sq footage, so I think either way they will have to mow because I doubt they'll splurge for doing the whole yard as groundcover (all but the front main area we've been discussing is shady though so pachysandra would do fine for the rest). Maybe I'll till the front this year, put 3" fresh free woodchips, plant vica and then next year or the one after, I'll till the back and sides and propagate the same vinca. they have a wooded area in the back so they have to make sure it doesn't take over the whole thing back there also. A good point: Meaning that in the back where there's woods, they should leave a good ten feet as lawn how it is now and prune it back there to not let it get into the wooded area "You mention that mowing seems to keep them controlled; I believe that to be true. It is when they are established next to, or in a woodland that they go crazy, choking out native plants of all sizes. I would humbly suggest that they should be used only in areas where their growth can be limited by mowing on all sides or contained by features such as pavement areas" http://mikesbackyardnursery.com/2014/06/vinca-flower/ I think the only thing left I have to research is if it can get all weedy if not re-mulched every few years. It can I read but I have to see if there are certain situations that make this more prone to happening - I think a lot of these people might have just not used enough mulch to start while the vinca was establishing and ended up with dense patches or weeds. Weeds would be fine, just don't want the weeds to actually take over the vinca, like grow taller than it and look like 1.5 foot of weeds. so many people are like snobs against vinca. looks good to me http://www.lodi.watersavingplants.com/GardenWorks/Photos/396.jpg and is a win win for no watering or mowing or chems etc any input thanks again

thanks for the recs, I coulda just googled the usda hardiness zone and found many options but I know for example like dogwoods are recently not doing to well in this zone (something with a beatle or something like that) but I will search each type further. Now I think I'm going to actually just plant like 7 different types of trees in between the arboorvitaes! Sounds wrong but I have seen many examples of similar, and it looks cool, also what's good is that for example arborvites sometimes can get snow damaged (limbs break under weight) and if you have a 20 year old screen of them and one gets beat up, you might want to replace it and might be hard to find the exact type and especially size and could be pricey. With using different types, if something dies or gets beat up it can just be replaced. I think I'll try an aprocot tree (have seen one doing well in the area) and a few other evergreen columnars/semi columnar.