desertdance, why bother growing more Thompsons seedless grapes for wine? Folks I know here on long Island buy dozens of 6 gallon buckets of inexpensive California wine grape Juice. The most expensive wine you'll ever drink is when you build and maintain a backyard vineyard. Not saying that grapes are bad but when you can drive down the block and get a pick up truck full of grapes for $50 the effort seems foolish. I suggest growing stone fruit, because is nearly impossible to get at ripe peak flavor in the store.

desertdance: What you have is likely weed seedlings. Could be wrong, but doubt they are grapes.

theaceofspades, I can't grow stone fruit here. Our weather won't permit it. Too hot in summer and not cool enough in winter. Grapes and citrus are it. I have a small fig and a couple guavas. Wine can be made from those also.

This is just a fun experiment for me. A challenge. But grapes are not just wine! You can also eat the fruit and make Greek Dolmades (yumm) with their leaves.

I do have flame seedless bare root vines and one perlite grape vine. Those will be in the ground soon. I'm hoping these baby Thompson Seedless are what I think they are.

fruitnut, I don't think these are weeds. They have small spring green grape leaves growing on them, just like the spring green leaves on the big vines. I think when they pruned, some pieces fell, and got kicked under the dirt, and I think these are like little cuttings. Since Thompson seedless doesn't have seeds, how can these be seedlings?

desertdance,
sounds like you got yourself some cuttings! If it looks like a grape then it must be!
Ken

I have a Thompson Seedless on a trellis. So far the vines are trained long - about 8 ft. across their framework. They show no signs yet of coming out of dormancy (very cold here near the ocean).

However, about a foot away, I see a very small plant about 2-3 inches high, that looks suspiciously like a baby grape plant.

I say "go for it" and I intend to give this little tad a new home also (more sun and support) when the weather warms up a bit. (It's not too cold for the plants, but the gardener hates it).

Bejay

I thought you might like to see how tall these commercial growers make their trellis system. I'm going to try to copy it. I was amazed at how short it is. I think all the energy of the plant goes to grapes, not vine and leaves. The cross bar supports 4 wires. The bulk of the leaves and grapes grow on top of these wires. Nice that it's early spring so we can see the structure of the trellis before they all get covered up!

Never posted a picture, so I hope this works: [IMG]http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq26/DesertDance/CoachellaVineCrossBarHeight.jpg[/IMG]

They sure won't be Thompson Seedless. Thompson doesn't make viable seeds. Most likely a wine grape seedling, since most commercial table grapes are seedless now.
Why not just get cuttings of a known variety of quality?
You may have about one chance in 10 of getting a good grape from the seedlings, so are they worth the time and effort?
Only you can determine that.

Boizeau, they are not seedlings. I'm pretty sure they are cuttings plowed under. They have the same grape leaves, and I'm thinking I got 3 grapevines free!! They are now in the ground, looking perky! And I am ok with jug wine from Thompson Seedless!

Stay tuned!
Suzi

Is it possible that the Thompson's roots spread underground (something like Bermuda grass)?

I posted earlier above, but now also realize, that I also have another WINE grape growing on the same arbor as the Thompson - but I'm sure, also, that the little plant sure looks suspiciously like a grape.

Keep us posted. (can't wait to see future progress here).

I noted a few bunches of small grapes formed last summer - a few Thompsons, and a few smaller types (assume wine types). The blue jays and Japanese beetles got most of them. I tried tying a piece of pantyhose around the newly forming grapes, but those durned critters went right through them.

We live fairly close to a winery and the 4 wire support, which you mention is used there. My small back yard seemed to be more receptive to the trellis idea, that is why I pruned my grapes to be trained over this structure. Not sure if that will be detrimental to growing, but I'm encouraged by the number of grapes that formed last summer.

Bejay

While Thompson seedless is not going to produce seedlings for obvious reasons, birds could very well deposit seeds from other grapes that may be grown nearby. The other grapes in the area would also be vinifera grapes, and the leaves would likely be very similar to TS. Black grapes will have pigmented veins and petioles, while white grapes will not. If the leaves are un-pigmented, then you do have "white" grape vines, which would make it more likely that these are rooted cuttings.

Grapes do not sucker as they don't produce adventitious buds from roots. They can send up shoots from dormant buds at the base of the trunk, if these buds were not removed from the cuttings used to start the vines. If these are from plowed under cuttings, they should have been attached to the pieces of cuttings. Was there any indication of this? Regardless of what these are, have fun with them!

Well I walked the vineyard. There were a lot of "rooted" cuttings. Just from the pruning and the kicking and the leaving......... There are acres of Thompson Seedless. Nothing else grows here! I think the workers get sloppy and take the big cuttings and leave the little ones to the dirt. I think I have a little one.

Today I talked to the boss of the vineyard. Interesting conversation. I will get a tour and some free cuttings. Like I want them? I didn't tell him about my shhhhh free rooted cuttings.......