You might try a Corgi. The ones I've known have been pretty laid-back in the house, but would bark to alert at cars coming up the driveway (but didn't try to attack the occupants), and were not scared to fight a racoon or groundhog. Their coats are somewhat thick, but the hair is not long (meaning they can stay outside longer in the wintertime).

I don't recommend getting a border collie. They can get very bored if not given structured tasks (such as herding, doing agility work, or playing ball).

I'm trying to picture a Corgi chasing after deer. I just don't see it. I could be wrong, but I can't imagine those legs could ever get going fast enough. I'll Google the breed and see what I can learn about it. Thanks for the suggestion.

John

I had a Black Labrador Retriever for 16 years in a similar situation. 18 Acres..a small garden plot..lots of kids in and out..river close by..mostly outdoors..Very Close to your description. She finally got too old and ..you know the rest of the story. Right now I have a Jack Russell terrier. GREAT little dog but not all that a Lab is. You CANNOT do better than a Lab. I'll be getting another Lab as soon as I can.

You might want to think about what all critters you are talking about. Do you have coyotes? If you do, I wouldn't be going for a small dog that could easily become dinner. I'd be looking for a large dog.

Ladybug:

I clearly stated the critters in the first sentence of my original posting:

"I'm looking to get another dog, specifically for the purposes of keeping all of the various critters out of my orchards--namely deer, wild turkeys, groundhogs, rabbits, skunks and the occasional intruder looking to help themselves."

John

As for keeping critters out I have one thought.....a Great Pyrenees. I have two and would not give them up for anything. They are good natured but most people coming here are NOT willing to get out of their cars until someONE is there to assure them that a bit of drool is the worst thing they will get from my Pyrs. They DO not fit your 'want' no shedding.

Now for a DON'T................I would say DON'T get a Border Collie. We had one that was on the run ALL the time. They are absolutely obsessive/compulsive animals. They MUST have something to occupy them ALL the time and they do run! Ours was all over the countryside.

Put some guineas in your orchard to eat the insects and the Pyr will happily "care" for his family (the guineas) and keep all intruders out....either through force (the critter variety) or sheer intimidation (the human kind).

John,

Corgis are great little dogs, and they can run a LOT faster than you think. If you want a purebred of any kind, a reputable breeder is the way to go. Another thought though, would be any of the working breed mixes, such as a German Shepherd-type mix. They are pretty easy to spot at shelters, and some shelters do have fairly knowledgable staff that can make some good guesses at what individual dogs are mixed with.

As far as a labrador goes, try to find a GOOD breeder. I would go with the "English" lab - they are shorter, stockier, have blockier heads and shorter tails. In my experience (working at vets' offices and at a boarding kennel) they tend to be calmer, not quite as hyper. There are good "American" labs out there, but the laborador is one of the most popular breeds today, and so many "backyard" breeders don't know what they are doing and you get a lot of poorly bred ones.

If you do go with a breeder, (for any breed) ask local vets for suggestions. They will be familiar with the really good dogs they have as patients, will know of any genetic problems, and can find out where the dogs came from. You could even try boarding kennels for suggestions. I know that we have quite a few dogs that I would be confident in suggesting their breeders. Working at the kennel currently, I see more of the "everyday" behavior now than I did at the vets' offices.

If you decide on a shelter, try a no-kill one, and tell the staff what you are looking for. They should be able to match you up with the right dog. If you use a shelter that euthanises due to limited space, some of the staff might be too eager to place a dog nearing the end of its stay. (I can't blame them - that's why I couldn't work in one!)

Sorry for the lecture, but I'm hoping this will help you find the perfect dog for you!

Kay

A jack russell,The vet told me theyre either bad or sweet no in the middle.Mine couldnt be any sweeter.She killed quite a few ground hogs,mice,rats,she is a great little dog.We had problems with ground hogs in texas longhorn pasture and horse pasture, theyre all registered animals cannot have one step in hole break its leg.We have no more problems since getting her.Great protection from unwanted visitors.aRussell doesnt see themselves as a little dog.Amazing dogs.she rounds up chickens at night after free range all day.

we have 2 pembroke welsh corgis. they can run like the wind, will not tolerate strange critters in the yard, are the best watch dogs you could ask for and when they are in the house, they are couch potatoes. there is the occasional FRAP (frequent acts of play) but those only last 5 minutes or so. they tear from one end of the house to the other and all you see is a blur!

we live in the boonies on 16 acres, not fenced except for where the llamas, goat and horse live. these dogs are consummate herders. they live to herd. and eat! they are bottomless pits when it comes to food.

they absolutely love winter. the more snow, the better. they are very much people dogs though. i'm not sure a corgi would be happy unless you are prepared to lavish your undivided attention on it for the better part of a day/nigh. ;)

i agree, if you live where coyotes are a problem, a corgi might not be your best bet. also, a raccoon can do some serious damage to ANY dog and a small dog combined with a large coon could be disasterous.

of course, you will never convince a corgi that he's a small dog. they are big dogs with no legs. if i wasn't working full time, i would have a dozen corgis.

something else to consider, corgis are shedding machines. when they aren't eating or herding, they are shedding. voluminous amounts of hair. i vacuum every day. without fail! :D

Seems we all love our dogs, so do I. Airedale Terrier.
In Europe they are used by the police as they are highly trainable and have no fear in protecting their man or territory. One plus, no shedding, we kept our first one clipped, she was in a fenced yard, the second one we didn't, he was loose on 55 acres and we never had critter problems, except snakes. First one would hunt snakes down, second one would climb up as high as he could to get away.
Both were the sweetest with children, allowing mine to learn to pull up by grabbing curly hair. Our last one I took with me to do a Brownie Day at the Farm, a 4 year old had come with sister and mom, she spend the day looking for sticks and hitting the dog, mom never said a word, Skeeter would get tired of it, catch the stick in his mouth and hold it, then the child just laid down on him and went to sleep. Yes I was very close by, we had no small children at this time and I wanted to see what the dog would do and I watched closely for signs of him getting upset and yes I did tell the child not to hit the dog, more than 4 or 5 times.
These are large breeds and mine got along fine with other dogs, we had a mixed litter of corgi/jack russell,dalmatian,papillon, according to the vet, dumped on us, our Airedale protected them all until they found homes.
They are great companion dogs and have that crazy terrier personality that makes for alot of fun, OK, they like to be busy, which can be a problem when they are young, but if you have other dogs that shouldn't be a big deal.
One more thing, my large dogs have all hated crows and other large birds and will chase them out of sight, my small dogs don't seem to care that much, they just run along for the fun.
Now that you have gotten us to give our opinions, please let us know what you end up getting.

Aunt Net

Thanks to everyone for the great feedback! It's been really helpful to get insight into a number of breeds that I'd never considered. I read an older post on GardenWeb regarding the best all-around homestead dog and learned of a breed that's of much interest and may be ideal for me. It's a Catahoula Leopard Dog. You'll find the thread here:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/homest/msg1223422214094.html

They seem to possess all of the qualities I'm looking for, and actually have short hair. Handsome dogs, too. Very similar in build and appearance to the Ridgeback that I've got. Here are a couple photos of an exceptionally handsome Catahoula:

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I have a lot of information to digest though from people's many different suggestions. Right now, I'm leaning toward one of these Catahoulas. I may ultimately go a different route altogether, though. I'll post an update once I've made a decision.

Thanks again, everyone!

John

Wow, that's a good-looking breed.

I'll speak up for corgis. I have Cardigan Welsh corgis - the ones with the tails - not those little Pembroke wannabes (just joking - just joking). Like all herding dogs, they are smart as whips and will certainly chase deer out of the yard - I've had that experience. They are bred to herd cattle, so the other animal's size doesn't matter to them. They like cold weather. However, I don't think a corgi is what you're looking for. They are so devoted to people and to being near their people that I don't think living out in the orchard would make one very happy. I think you would find your corgi, like mine is right now, under your feet waiting for what WE are going to do next.

Great Pyrenees are bred to be independenat and protective of their charges-whether that be your family, chickens, goats, 8 acres or 100 acres-whatever they have bonded to.

Gentle giants yet ferocious bears both fit them as a description. They can be loving one minute and a terror the next. Yes, they have long hair, but some owners clip them once a year in the spring and it works for them. They are considered one of the oldest, if not the oldest, working dog breed. However, they will not do well without a fence to enforce their domain, and will need to be trained to it(as most dogs would). An electric fence has reportedly worked well with them. Another breed similar is the Anatolian Shepard-a google search will bring up good descriptions of the breeds. I would highly recommend either breed, purchased from a working farm and knowledgeable breeders.

I beleive a lot has to do with the training. We've had both dobermans & collies protecting the property (6 ac) & animals at one point or other. Both did well but the Pyr is a THINKER and will decide on it's own how to deal with a trespasser, or how to keep a baby goat alive when abandoned. Bonding is the key with a Pyr.

I have a friend that has a dog that's part Pit, part Catahoula, and part Mountain Cur (which he tells me is a breed - Mountain Cur sounds like a mutt to me - I know "cur" means mutt). He looks just like your picture in build, except he's mostly white with a ticking of brown, and is a bit shorter than a Doberman. About the weight and muscle mass of a female Rottie but taller.

He's a nice dog, but all winter he shivers outdoors unless he is actually running and exercising. If he stops for 10 or 15 minutes, he starts shivering. This is a 2-3 year old dog in fit shape and is well fed and conditioned. His owner works at home, outdoors, so he is used to being outside, and getting lots of exercise.

You might consider this if you want the dog outside a lot in the winter where you live. I think I would want a dog with a bit more coat.

I've got two Aussies. Yeah they shed but nothing my dyson can't handle. Plus it balls up nicely on it's own. They'll chase anything if it's going to run for them and just this morning I had to hold the leashes tight because a deer ran across the path in front of us. We are city folk and they live in the house but I walk them off leash frequently. Very good dogs. Velcro dogs to their owners. Work when you want them to work and relax with you when you want them to relax. My little girl is only about 18 inches tall. She seems quite small but she loves everything.

John, the people we bought our place from had a catahouala. We did't get out of the car until the owner came out. They can be pretty imposing dogs. Bet you intruders won't be intruding. I'm not saying they are mean. But who would want to take the chance? Theirs was a merle, and not as pretty as the one in the picture you posted above.

A Great Pyr is the answer to your prayers, NO other dog can do what this breed can do... Do your research..... Good luck. pk

Pkspigs:

I've done a considerable amount of research. The responses I've gotten on this list have been quite helpful, too.

A Great Pyranees is out of the question. If you go back and read my original posting, you'll see that I'm looking for a short-haired breed. A Great Pyranees isn't going to be a good fit for that reason alone.

I appreciate your response, as well as all of the other terrific suggestions everyone else has been so generous to offer!

John

There is some useful info on this old thread and I thought I'd add some info I found in my own search for a short hair farm dog:

Some excerpts from the USDA web site: "Livesock Guarding Dogs Protecting Sheep from Predators"
"It is important to understand the distinction between herding dogs and guarding dogs. Herding dogs (border collies, Australian shepherds, and others) move sheep from one area to another by biting, chasing, or barking at the sheep. Herding dogs work according to signals (verbal and hand) from a handler, and they are generally not left alone with the sheep. Guarding dogs usually do not herd sheep, are discouraged from biting, chasing, and barking at sheep, and act independently of people.

In 1986, the University of Idaho conducted a survey of approximately 400 people who used livestock guarding dogs. These individuals reported on 763 dogs, 95 percent of which were recognized guarding breeds. Great Pyrenees (57 percent) and Komondor (18 percent) were the most common, followed by Akbash (8 percent), Anatolians (7 percent), Maremmas (3 percent), and others (7 percent). The rate of success among the breeds was not different, but behavioral differences were noted. More Komondors bit people than did Great Pyrenees, Akbash, or Anatolians, and fewer Great Pyrenees injured livestock than did Komondors, Akbash, or Anatolians.

In a recent evaluation of yearling livestock guarding dogs, Great Pyrenees were rated significantly higher than Anatolian shepherds (83 percent of 59 Pyrenees versus 38 percent of 26 Anatolians rated as good). Anatolian shepherds were rated lower primarily because of their higher tendency to injure or kill sheep.

Most dogs in the 1986 Idaho survey were aggressive to predators and other dogs, although Great Pyrenees seem to be somewhat less aggressive to dogs than other guarding breeds.

The Great Pyrenees comes from France and Spain, and the Akbash comes from Turkey. The Akbash comes in both a short hair and long hair line.

Just remember that dog's are "individuals" and it's always a game of chance. Normally a Rhodesian Ridgeback would be a logical choice for what you're wanting. Labs and catahoula's are both good choices too. I've had a border collie that was very much a "couch potato" and another that was the typical extremely active kind of dog.
Yes breeds have different traits but there are exceptions to every rule. I think going with an adult dog from a no-kill shelter is a good idea because the people there should know the dog's personal traits.

GOOD LUCK

It's nice to see this old thread revived. I ultimately lost my Ridgeback to cancer about 2 months after I began this thread and I decided to spoil my other pooch for a year or two before getting the orchard dog that I'd initially inquired about. I ultimately got her this past October ('07) and couldn't be happier. I went a direction I never thought I would, too. I ended up getting a female and getting a Dogue de Bordeaux---remember the movie Turner & Hooch? I saw her photo on the breeder's website and just had to have her. She came from a breeder in Michigan and was flown to Maine about a week after I signed the papers. I named her Babette and she has just passed the 70lb a 6 1/2 months old. Ultimately, she should max out at about 130 lbs.

Below are two photos, one of her at about 12 weeks, the other taken just a couple days ago (at 6 1/2 months).

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She's an incredibly sweet pooch but will let out one or two window-shaking barks when someone's at the door or heard out in the yard. I can't imagine many deer are going to be ringing the doorbell to see if she wants to come out to play. She's a total creampuff though. I can't imagine her hurting anything.

I'll let you all know how well she adapts to orchard living.

John

Sorry to hear about your Ridgeback.
Babette is beautiful!!! Honestly can't say that I'd ever think of that breed cause it is kind of a rarity but I think you did good!!
I can't imagine any varmits sticking around with her running loose!!lol

Cute pup. I sort of figured a dog with really short hair like that might get cold up there. Oh well, if she gets cold you can always buy her a coat, right? Maybe put a little ground hog fur trim around the collar for effect? (Grin)

those pics are delicious. She is a real beauty. puts me in mind of a boxer and I have always loved that breed. we raised them for a time in my childhood.

If she doesn't turn out to be a varmint hunter. I have a little beagle which is a breed bred for rabbit hunting and she has proven herself many times in running off smaller animals and has fit right into our family. She doesn't touch our chickens though it took no time at all to teach her that they were family too. She is out side most of the time but was easy to house train also. five minutes a day and I think we could teach her anything. she truly listens better then our teenagers.

congrats on the pup

CI

We had a black lab, he was so sweet, but his other name was Houdini. He could escape ANY collar. He had been given to us from a co worker who had found him on her neighbors porch. He loved to wander, he was a nomad. I was gone for a few days and my husband put a huge rock on the fence where he had been going under it and getting tangled up. He disappeared and never came back. He was a sweet dog, but loved to travel.