After having, man and boy, about 40 gardens - I just HAVE to try this sometime, Misskitty! - - - Soup!

No, not the chicken noodle out of the red and white can. I'm talking about cooking plants (not necessarily vegetables, either) and using the broth as a fertilizer and even as an insect repellent.

Here's an idea from HGTV. The suggestion is to pour boiling water on oak leaves. Simple enuf but the tannins in the leaves make me wonder if it is entirely safe. I've got some nice purslane weeds which darn near require boiling to kill (okay sure, they make good compost :o). I actually sat an uprooted purslane plant on a concrete block in full sun one time to see how long it would live. After 3 weeks, it was blooming and beginning to set seed!!

Anything with this much "life force" MUST have plenty of nutrients useful to the plants I actually WANT to grow!

And, with regards to meat in the broth? Why not! I know of some pesky rabbits who owe me BIG time for all the healthful veggies they've enjoyed at my expense!

Steve

Hey Steve,
Thanks for the tip, and boy, do I ever have purslane here too! Very interesting... I was wondering if I could boil the fertizer granules that I have to make them into a liquid without distroying their potency (don't know if I spelled that right). Yesterday I dug a little ditch beside on of my bananas to fertilize it and found most if not all of the fertilizer that I put there back in May. What I like to do is this: I leave the ditch but I pull the pine straw back over it and pull the hose over and water in the ditch, just a slow trickle, for an hour, longer if it's really dry. I always put a small handful of Epsom's salt in there too. After a few times of watering, the ditch fills in with dirt, so I don't see any more fertilizer. I guess I was thinking it would be absorbed/disolved by now. And when I do use the liquid, I see results! So, I'll give your purslane soup a try and see what happens and let you know. Thanks again, and hope you had a great Labor Day! Nancy

WOW!!! 40 gardens!??! You have to be a LOT of fun to talk to...

After wavering back and forth, I finally committed 100% to organic methods with my veggie gardens. I still use synthetic fertilizers and such in the ornamentals. When I tossed some "extra" fertilizer around some of those plants about a month or more ago, what appears to be the phosphorus never melted and just sits there on the soil surface. Phosphorus just doesn't seem to be water-soluble. Certainly the calcium & phosphorus in bones can actually fossilize.

The soup or tea notion has been an idea with me for quite awhile, Nancy. I've become something of an herb tea drinker myself and feel that "I" benefit from it!

Many years ago, I made some manure tea for the garden. After leaving it for a few weeks, it smelled abominable and there were MAGGOTS! No way was I dumping that stuff on my food! Manure is for my compost pile - - the compost is for my soil. The plants can get their roots down in it if they want - it's up to them.

I did some reading about manure & compost teas and such. The French apparently swear by their stinging nettle tea - once again, the author reported it smell hideous. Hey! I've enjoyed stinging nettle as a green vegetable. And, I've got nettle tea in the kitchen right now - Good Stuff!

I guess it is a well-grounded folk remedy for damping-off to use either willow tea (don't think you can drink that ;o) or chamomile tea as a soil drench to protect seedlings. Nicotine from tobacco can be an effective, if somewhat dangerous, insecticide. Garlic and hot peppers are supposed to repel bugs.

I understand that the microbial decomposition of the material; compost, manure, alfalfa, whatever; is beneficial to the plant. But, even tho' we use microbes to partially digest our food and drink; beer, wine, yogurt, etc.; mostly, we COOK our food to make it more digestible. Making nutrients more readily available to plants SHOULD work the same way, don't you think?

I may be all wet on this, Nancy, but I'm going to try it next season and see what happens. Right now, I'm using Miracle Gro regularly on the flowers and it is - expensive! And, I just decided to make more use of the fish emulsion on this-and-that in the veggie garden and it - stinks!

So, I'm going to make "soup" or some equivalent and spray it regularly on a few plants and see how they do by comparison to others treated with MG and dead fish. Can you imagine? The plants might love it! It would be great if you can come up with your own technique for a liquid fertilizer and report to us here, also.

Steve

Oh, I'm a tea drinker myself! Mostly green tea, I've never been a fan of herbal teas though. I've tried chamomile to help with stress, didn't like it... I grow a lot of different mints as well, but I never could scrape together a liking for them as tea...And I agree with the benefit, and we drink only teas now, no soft drinks at all.
Ok, so the phosphorus won't break down into the soil. As I was reading your reply, I had a thought. I guess I'll need to dig a much deeper hole beside the plant to actually get the fertilizer closer to the roots so it's more available for the plant. The bag that the fertilizer is in states that it will not burn the plant. [I wonder if that's what happened to my Datura? (Yesterday, I looked at it again, and I believe it's dead.) I used a liquid on it, just poured some on the mulch around it and watered it in really well, and 2 days later it was very wilted - now it's dead. I don't know. I got the seeds from my sister-in-law, and only one sprouted and grew to about a foot tall. I wanted at least one bloom so I could have seeds for next year. That's why I fertilized it - like a kick in the pants to get it growing... Oh well...] I think I'll try that and the "tea" and see as well. Here in the south, we have a long growth season, thankfully, but this year has been brutally hot and dry. I haven't been able to get outside for weeks at a time, other than to water. It shows too! So now that it's cooled down to the 90's, I get out there more and feel like I've got some catching up to do.
I've heard/read of nettle tea! I read a year or two ago, that it's a remedy for something, now I can't even remember what it was... It's probably something for the memory! LOL.. But I looked for it (plants, seeds, anything!) around here and never found anything. Do you grow your own? How's it taste? Have you experienced any benefit from it? I like natural remedies and use them when I can. You mentioned willow - I've read/heard somewhere that it can be made into a tea and has some pain-relieving properties. I can only imagine what it would taste like though... I have a willow, I should try it and see.
Well, I've learned a good bit here. Thanks Steve, you should write a book, you've got a lot to share and we could benefit from it all. And you're NOT all wet, either!! I'll post if anything comes from this. It's been nice 'talking' to you. Thanks again... Nancy

I didn't know all this, Nancy! I guess one couldn't find a much more authoritative source on nettles than the Univ. of Maryland.

I don't know much about herbal remedies but I really want to caution you on planting nettles. It isn't toooo much of a problem around here but I know it sure is elsewhere. I've enjoyed having it for dinner but the painful experience of lying down on it in a mountain meadow wasn't any fun.

The tea isn't my favorite since it essentially reminds me of the vegetable - kinda like drinking the juice from spinach. My favorite tea is Stash's Licorice Spice. So I got a little crazy this year and decided to try to expand my tea garden which consisted of catnip and lemon verbena. We've got mints in the yard (quite a few) but I'm not much of a mint fan, either.

I didn't grow any nor harvest nettle from the wild this year, just ordered some tea with a seed order from Richters. I talked a little about my new tea plants on the heirloom forum. Have 6 little planters and about 50 feet of a garden row in these herbs right now. Turns out that anise hyssop has the best flavor but the Korean mint is very similar and much more productive. Still like catnip and lemon verbena so all these will be in the mix for the Winter months. (You should know that NONE of these herbs are in Licorice Spice but the flavors are somewhat in the same class. ;o)

Sorry about your tough growing weather. I'm here in the Wild West where it's been hot and dry throughout. However, I think the temperature only topped 100F once this Summer. Looks to me like we are now on the downhill side of the 90's . The dry part we've got down pat - just about exactly 1 inch of rain since June 21st . . .

Steve

I had to laugh at the visual of you stuck to a bed of nettles... and I LOVE spinach! Can't imagine drinking it though... Great info on nettles, I think I'll look into finding the tea, maybe mix it with something better tasting so I'll be able to get it down. It frustrates me when I hear how so many other gardeners have to keep catnip and catmint under control... I had a small plant 4 or 5 years ago and for some reason it didn't make it through the winter. I haven't had any since. I've bought and planted many seeds but no sprouts or anything... I think it's so humid here that the seeds drown/rot/something. I would like to try Stevia, I have a friend that uses the powder in her tea and swears by it. Won't use anything else. I was also surprised when I read (in the heirloom forum) at the different herbs and such that can be made into tea. Pineapple sage? I have LOADS this year, and would never have thought of making tea with it. Interesting...Thanks, Steve, you're a goldmine of info... Nancy

Instead of cooking your weeds, why not run them through a blender with some water, then dilute the resulting goop and pour it in trenches around your plants? You could also add things from your kitchen trash, like banana peels or egg shells, if you are concerned about minerals. This way you'd get all of the nutrition possible out of the weed.

Or make "sun tea" in a big glass jar.

Either way, it takes less energy than cooking them.

That's a good idea, Demeter! And we just bought a new blender. There was some guy on public TV a few years ago, can't think of his name, Jerry something maybe, and he suggested that too. I'll do it and let y'all know. Thanks for the good tip! Nancy

It IS a good idea, Demeter.

The blender or a juicer would especially help in making all or most of the nutrients available.

But, I swear, brewing something like compost or manure in a bucket of water for 14 to 30 days would be "off-putting" to 90% of the population!

Jerry Baker, Nancy . . . you should know that he has been roundly criticized by academic horticulturalists. Doesn't mean he doesn't have some reasonable ideas for the home gardeners. Here are a bunch of his formulas.

Steve

Thanks Steve. I enjoyed that site, she had some sweet bunnies, I miss mine. When I would go outside, they would scamper over to the top door because I almost always would take them a goody and then hold and pet them for a few minutes. As I was reading some of the recipes, I got curious... What does ammonia do/have that's good for plants? And instant tea powder? And BEER?!? I liked that most of the recipes were natural/cheap! Maybe tomorrow I'll go back and re-read the recipes and try one or two, I'm much too tired now. I found a sale at Lowe's Friday and had 15 new plants to re-pot or plant... So many pretty flowers and not enough yard!! Anyhoo, thanks again Steve! Nancy

We pour water through our leaf mold a few times a year and feed it to the plants in pots. They really seem to like the feeding. I couldn't tell you what nutrients it gives off though.

Hey ih8tbugs,
What a great name! It took me a minute though... What's a leaf mold? Can you walk me through what you do? It sounds interesting, if I can, I'll try it... Thanks, Nancy

Misskitty, leaf mold is what happens when leaves pile up and rot in place, without the addition of other compost components such as kitchen scraps or green plants, and no turning. It's a slower process, but it's a great thing to do if you have access to lots of leaves (whether yours or ones you can "acquire" from the curb during fall leaf-raking season). Leaf mold makes a great mulch.

I would figure that running water through it would make a tea with some of the nutrients released from the leaves by the bacteria etc. that are eating them, plus some of the bacteria themselves. Possibly the potted plants like it so much because it introduces a healthy mix of micro-organisms into the potting soil.

BTW, if you're going to use the blender thing for making liquid weeds, get a spare container and use only that one for weeds, kitchen scraps, and so forth. Dandelions are a great weed to do this with because their roots are so deep; they bring up lots of minerals from deep down.

I noticed in the beginning of this thread comments about liquid fertilizer and how the granular chemical fertilizer didn't seem to disolve. Lots of the chemical fertilizers are made by coating something granular with the nutrient salts to make it easier to spread. Just because the granular bits are still there doesn't mean they didn't give off the nutrients. As to liquid fertilizers, one must be careful with them as they can be strong and if used incorectly, can burn sensative plants. Also, you don't want to use lots of liquid fertilizer and then wash it away by watering it in, that only pollutes the ground water and leaches the nutrients away from your plants.

Since this is the frugal gardening form, I would suggest people concider getting soil tests done before using lots of fertilizers since they cost money and too much of something is bad for your soil and the environment. Contact the cooperative extension service in your state/county to find out about soil testing. The more complete residential test here in FL costs $7.

As to cheap, easy liquid fertilizers you can make. I know one that is pretty much free (well you gotta have water to dilute it with so however much water costs you or the electricity for pumping it.) There is a bit of a smell as you apply it but it goes away by the next day. What is it you ask? Urine. It is usually recomended to dilute 10 or 20 to one. The ratio that works well for me on outdoor plants is on cup (8 oz) urine to one gallon of water. I usually add a bit of vinegar to the collection bottles to keep em from stinking too much when you open them to pee.
Sound too gross for you, just remember that urine is steril unless the person producing it has a urinary tract infection. It seems to make a good liquid fertilizer and in compairison tests I've done between it and Miracle Grow, so far there is either no difference or the plants that get the urine are doing better. FYI, lots of fertilizers use urea for their nitrogen source, urea is only about a step away from urine. Human urine also has other nutrients and micro nutrients that can be helpful to your plants though these vary depending on the person and their diet. As with most fertilizers, watch out for salt build up.

Someone asked what amonia has that plants might want. Amonia is a nitrogen source, just an extra step away from the urea and urine.

Ok, if the liquid gold option of fertilizer doesn't suit your tastes there are other options. Most of em for liquid fertilizer are likely to get smelly before they are done though. You can make teas for your plants with all sorts of things, most people do this outdoors in buckets or trash cans. Just soak whatever you want to use in water for a time Then strain/dilute and use the water on your plants. Things that can help include adding an air bubbler into the water to keep it airated and help promote good microbes (this can also help against the bad smells some.) I don't know the exact length of time or specific dilution for these mixtures right off hand but do some searching and you can probably find a recipie for you desired ingredient.

Favored materials for making these teas. Compost, (some people use manure but others don't think that is good,) Nettles, alfalfa, comfrey leaves (good choice as they grow back quickly and have medcinal uses as well,) worm castings, corn meal, seaweed, weeds, and many others I don't know about. These materials will each impart different nutrients or properties. Some are more for promoting beneficial fungus to fight bad fungal diseases instead of just as fertilizer. Heck, regular tea and coffee can be diluted to help against slugs/snails.

Wow! So much information! Thanks, Demeter, for clearing up my oops. Boy, I was off in la-la land on that one. It makes sense too, leaf mold is full of good nutrition, for everything growing I'm sure. I guess I should've said that now that we have a new blender, I can use the old one for something else. You made a good point. And thanks tclynx, for so much info. I knew urine was a good source for nitrogen, I just can't bring myself to go in a jug.... (nice visual...) And what if it tips over? Temper tantrums aren't as effective as they once were... I'd just have to clean it up. But ammonia I can deal with. I'll check into getting the soil tested, my sister works at Auburn University, she told me that's what I needed to do, but since she is my MUCH OLDER sister, I told her she's not the boss of me, and left it at that... So now I guess I'll have crow casserole for dinner and give her a call...ew... Thanks, Nancy

I'm going back just a moment to the idea of cooking versus the idea of doing something else with material considered appropriate for use as a fertilizer. (And, you can all see in the posts above that there's this or that which I, and I'm sure many others, wouldn't see as appropriate as a fertilizer - especially on food.)

I was curious what it costs to make nitrogen fertilizer. I don't have it down for the commercial product but if I was able and interested in making 1 pound of anhydrous ammonia fertilizer, I would need to shell out 26 cents to the gas company for the use of their natural gas. If I was to make ammonium nitrate, it would cost even more. (you can explore this using the link below)

Obviously, the fertilizer manufacturers don't pay as much for natural gas as I do here at home. But, the high pressure and high temperature (900 ºF) required to make synthetic nitrogen fertilizers consumes a great quantity of fuel and releases considerable heat into the atmosphere. I wonder how steeping a batch of weeds from the garden in a pot of boiling water would compare.

In that case, I think that my 26 cents would go a long, long way. Sun tea makes some sense. Blending which does, after all, use some electricity makes more sense. Boiling a kettle of water and pouring it over nettles, alfalfa, comfrey, oak leaves, or even lawn clippings certainly wouldn't be an outrageous use of energy by comparison to commercial fertilizer manufacturing.

Steve

Once again Steve, I totally agree with your conclusions. Sorry about my long absence, we had a birthday - Daddy's 78th - and a death in my brothers family. .... So blended goop and sun 'tea' with something other than tea leaves will most likely be my choice. I've even picked out the container for the job. When everything calms down a little more, I'll give it a try. Thank you all, for helping me with some options I'd never even heard of til now. Nancy

Wow, has it already been a month? Sorry I missed your question for so long Nancy. You can find out how to make leaf mold through the link. That's the same way we do it. After we have some that is made, we just pack a five gallon bucket with leaf mold, and fill the bucket with warm water and then let it sit for a day or two. Then remove all of the leaf mold from the bucket, squeezing all the dirty brown muck back into the bucket as you go. Use the wet leaf mold around your favorite plants. Then the plants in containers get a good feeding with the stuff. You can't overdo it, at least we haven't yet :)

I like the urine idea. Have to get rid of it somehow anyway...and if one were living "off the grid" this would be one way I suppose. Composting toilets don't add much since the nitro is long gone after it's composted (this is a precaution against bacteria--Chinese farmers traditionally used fresh "night soil" which is why Chinese people traditionally refuse to eat raw vegetables), but they add some minerals and perhaps more importantly will eventually break down into some humus.

You can make "compost tea" using an aquarium pump and aerator to aerate a barrel of water and compost. The aerator is needed to prevent accumulation of anaerobic bacteria which are not good for plants (or people).I haven't actually tried this but this is what is recommended in my soil microbes book. This is affordable but unfortunately not really "frugal" because aquarium pumps require electricity and they don't last forever.

For nitrogen I grow a lot of nitrogen-fixers. Probably all of the herbaceous members of Leguminaceae are capable of it, some woody members can, and various other plants like Ceanothus also harbor nitrogen-fixing bacteria. I grow several species of Lupines around the base of my fruit trees and in my mixed borders, Strawberry Clover and Lathyrus sativus var azureus in vegetable beds over the winter, and I am currently trying to raise a single specimen of Acacia angustissima (a native of the southern prairies of the USA) to maturity to produce seed as another promising nitrogen-fixer.

As much fertilizer as I do use, I strongly prefer longer-lasting, old-fashioned types like rock phosphorus and Jersey Greensand. They are not as fast as liquid but they take longer to leach out.

Thanks Ih8tbugs, such a cute name! Demeter answered my dopey question, much to my embarrassment... But I'll check out the link and try it in the spring which I'm already looking forward to. And I'll have more leaves then too. And thanks atash, boy, you've got an interesting site! I just spent way too much time there.... Question, what's "night soil"? I've never heard of it. Compost tea is something I'll try come spring as well. My brother has cows, horses, goats and chickens and lets me get all I can carry - so to speak. I have a small yard - about a quarter acre, I don't know if I could plant nitrogen-fixers, it's getting more and more crowded every year. But it's something to consider. Thank you all again, for so much really good information.:) I've learned so much! Nancy

Try the vermiculture forum for the best concentrated fertilizer you can grow.

I have a worm farm which produces a very high nutrient soil. I started with about 100 red wiggler worms and feed them our household vegetable & fruit scraps, along with shredded paper, sometimes grass clippings, etc. After a while the worms make a good soil. You can make a compost tea out of a 5 gal. bucket, and aquarium air pump & a paint strainer. Below is a link on the components needed and how to make it. Both worm compost and this compost tea maker and are VERY cheap.
You might want to visit the vermicomposting forum on Gardenweb. The guys who post on the forum are quite knowledable.

Betty

Digit is exactly right. I have a very good friend who is Korean, and she has amazing growth throughout the season, due to the practice of taking the leftover stalks, dead leaves, etc. from vegetables, stewing and straining them, then watering her plants with the cooled liquid. Another common practice she utilizes is to use beef bone stew. She does the same thing, and adds a bit of garlic (to keep critters away). I have been amazed at the growth she's had doing this; she is buddhist and does not believe in using pesticides, etc. The evidence is overwhelming to me: I have shared many plants with her, and she has less-fortified soil than mine, yet the plants I give her flourish better than mine. I am a believer now.

I've had good success with making a very basic, sun-tea style compost tea. 5 gallon bucket and an old tube sock stuffed with near-finished compost. It's a small scale operation, i grant you, but it suits my needs. I usually have two or three buckets going. The brew turns pretty nicely dark after like a week out in the sun. I don't keep em right by the house, but I haven't noticed any offensive odor like I imagine manure tea may make. Hope people are still checkin this thread out, there are plenty of great ideas in here!