What are the approximate dimensions of your terrace? What are the approximate dimensions of the whole fenced back area?

I would look to design the entire fenced area, not just a single terrace. For me it's easier to imagine something as part of a whole rather than this piece and that other piece. You have already described the wide, straight path that will bisect the space; that is a first unifying element.

I am not a landscaper, nor do I have any experience with large, wide open spaces. But my mind wants to see some form of orchard with flowering fruit trees. (Another thing I have no experience with!) Perhaps two rows of trees along either perimeter (not necessarily limited to the terrace in question), the smaller trees to the interior. Raked earth or mulch underneath the trees; absolute simplicity. Perhaps something in deep beds along the path (if you must), roses? I'm not hot for roses because they don't look good all year, but something that grows well in your area that might fill the same niche. If it were me, I'd skip the beds. It's just my own inclination not to overlandscape such a large area.

Benches. I'd want at least a pair of benches for settling down to admire the view. They could be on either side of the path toward the top of your terrace looking down toward the pond, or they could face each other across the wide path mid-terrace.

Ok, that's my take. I'm sure someone can improve on that!!

If you really want to start back at square one you need to shelve such notions as "Style: English country" you have ditched "garden rooms" but you should listen to what the land is telling you before looking elsewhere. What is unique about the landscape is that the ground slopes down and away from the house. There is a pond backed by a wooded area at the bottom, or in a gully. We don't know what the front of the house looks like or the area close by. The area you are interested in comes between the house and the pond. I see the character or 'genius' of the place, in the pond and woods and the problem is blending the two. On the other thread I have suggested that the white picket fence interferes with this and you should think about the overall plan in looser terms than looking for a particular style, even "Please help me design a planting for the middle terrace in our back lawn" is going too far, in my opinion.

Hope these add'l photos help round out the picture.

The overall area is 12 acres set in a large lot community. We do have horses and one day (when the pastyre is ready you will see horses grazing near the pond and peeking their heads over the back fence.

One day, the board fence will extend all around the property, so it won't look like a small isolated bit of fence, but will be a part of a larger enclosure. The transistion from picket to board is a little abrupt, but I have a large holly planted right at the transition, so hopefully it will mask it.

The fenced area is approx 250 ft long and 70 ft deep. The terrace is approx 15 ft deep and 40-50 ft wide.

i do have access to a crew of landscapers, who do much of the heavy work, masonary work and path building. I prefer to do the routine maintenence, small shrubs and other small plantings myself.

I suppose what I am trying to do at the point is get some of the 'bones' in. I agree with another post that I need to get the walls in first and make sure they are a part of the big picture before I move on to detailed planting.

Ink, what do you mean by thinking iof the plan in looser terms? A bigger picture? More flexibility with my "style"?

I appreciate all of the comments so far, both philisophical and practical. it is fun to get ideas from a wide range of people.

Front of house
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The BIG picture
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2 houses?

I would not say that I love the fence, just that it does not freak me out (at least not looking out at it from the house). Like any landscape, we are dealt a hand and some of it you can give back to the dealer for other cards, but some of it you have to play.

I think Nandina was making some useful suggestions toward the end of the other thread (why did you split the thread?). I think they follow the same thought that I was trying to express. Treat it as one full landscape and then develop within it.

I have to admit that I was just feeling inspired to get into this project. Now that the OP brushed all of our work off of the blackboard to start a new thread, I perceive that to mean it is not valued and I don't want to play anymore.

I'm so sorry laag- i do really value your input. I split the thread because at least one of the responses was that I needed to change my questions a bit and drop the "garden room" idea. I thought giving a new title would help clarify the problem. I suppose I could have somehow changed the title of the original post, but not sure how to do that. I agree that nandina did have some great ideas and that is just what I was thinking. Something simple, somewhat symmetrial, but with a "fuzzy" feeling to it to give some informality. Please keep the posts coming and if you know how to combine them and just change the title, let me know. Sorry if I offended!

Hire someone.

Do you have 2 houses, a "guest house"? What is that second structure?

My first thought was "Here we have a moderatly sloped property where the the concept of "rooms" often works and is easy to accomplish."

But for the life of me I could not get a good feel for the form and scope of the hillside. You gave the dimensions of the middle terrace as 15 by 40, which is not big enough for rooms. But the photos seem to show the terrace to be much larger.

There is something about your camera that is throwing me off. Distant objects appear to be much further away than they are. I'm still lost.

yes, the second structure is a guest house/garage.

Pls8xx- I re measured and the terrace is actually 15 x 60- oops. From the base of the house the slope drops about 10-12 ft over a distance of 75 ft. Thanks for your input.

Either hire somebody, who will start by making a scale drawing of the place, or start yourself by making a scale drawing of the place. Then start playing around with axis. The dumb-bunny place to start with that, would be something perpendicular to the house, starting at the double doors. Then lay out axis on each level perpendicular to that. Then you get to laying out the middle terrace. Should that axis be defined by a single line of trees, an encircling border of shrubs, one line of shrubs against the retaining wall, or something else? The answer to that depends on the amount of enclosure you are looking for, the amount of maintenance you want to do, the exact look you want, etc. It's geometry that's extremely common around here.

We do have a master plan, drawn to scale done by a landscape designer. He is the one who designed the terraces, however, he did not indicate what should be planted on this terrace. the inital drawing is "Phase 1" which was basically the grading and hardscape. I can call him back to design the terraces, but I thought it would be fun to try my hand at it and an interesting exercise to see what the gardenweb folks have to say about it.

There is an established axis perpendicular to the house, exactly as you described. It starts at the center of the porch, across the lawn, down the stone steps onto terrace #2, through the boulder wall (we will eventually build steps through the wall) and out a double gate in the back fence, this roughly lines up with 2 beech trees growing on the left bank of the pond.

I like nandina's idea of a grassy area with shrubs on either end to give a sense of enclosure. The grassy area could be made a long oval which would give an axis parallel to the house and walls. I am looking for suggestions on how to integrate the terrace with the rest of the landscape and have the option of developing garden rooms in the future.

I'm beginning to feel like we are being used as a personal muse. Concealing vital pieces of information only to reveal them as the puppet master sees fit is no fun.

Like Laag, I too have grown weary of this.

IronBelly

dance my little puppet, dance!!

"I thought it would be fun to try my hand at it and an interesting exercise to see what the gardenweb folks have to say about it."

Then, try your hand at it. The gardenweb folks get enough exercise.

Sorry dogridge, the 'pros' own the place.

If you had taken the time to search and scan through the mere 10,000+ posts you would have realized this. You obviously haven't given enough information and the board rules really aren't that obscure..always be deferential to the 'pros'. You need to lurk a few more years on here daily and learn the in-and-outs of board etiquette and board hierarchy. It's not a personal thing though. The satisfaction of seeing another 'newbie' put down is just a way of releasing the tension of having to cowtow to another idiot client.

You're not the first treated this way...you won't be the last.

By the way, the only two decent 'pros' migrated to another site. I always flinch when I see a new poster asking a question...deer in front of the headlights sort of thing.

-Ron-

I think you are being a tad unfare ron. dogridge had a fair amount of input on her question before she mentioned that she already had a plan, information that would have been more helpful upfront. BTW Michelle would no doubt have reacted in a similar fashion, although she would have been funnier and she would flinch at your insult to the rest of us. Decency is indeed in short supply.

I think I was a little out of line too, sorry.

It's just the way it all progressed that it sounded a little presumptious on dogridge's part, when I don't think she meant to be.

Ron is right that people get tromped on once in a while. Most of the time it's because things aren't written perfectly or things aren't read through.

Inkognito, if I'm being a tad, it's a tad too uncritical. When the comment,

" Now that the OP brushed all of our work off of the blackboard to start a new thread, I perceive that to mean it is not valued and I don't want to play anymore."

was made, the OP apologized and explained why a new post was started, and even admitted that perhaps, in hindsight it was unnecessary.

So the reply was, "Hire someone." And someone else chimes in " I'm beginning to feel like we are being used as a personal muse. Concealing vital pieces of information only to reveal them as the puppet master sees fit is no fun.
Like Laag, I too have grown weary of this."

I read the OPs responses as trying to lighten things up.

Inkognito, you stated..."she mentioned that she already had a plan"

I didn't read that at all. The OP stated,

We do have a master plan, drawn to scale done by a landscape designer. He is the one who designed the terraces, however, he did not indicate what should be planted on this terrace. the inital drawing is "Phase 1" which was basically the grading and hardscape. I can call him back to design the terraces, but I thought it would be fun to try my hand at it and an interesting exercise to see what the gardenweb folks have to say about it.

Perhaps the last part of that last sentence unsettled some, but if that's the case a smart response was unnecessary. Just move on.

Finally, I stand by my statement, " You're not the first treated this way...you won't be the last."

This seems to be the rule and not the exception around here.

I do agree with you, decency is indeed in short supply.

-Ron-

Yes, yes, yes, yes. (My skin is v-e-r-y thick these days.)

But I DO wish I had seen that last "BIG picture" before making the suggestion of a small orchard on 1/8th of the lot...which would look kind of ridiculous... Context does matter.

Kim,

I hope I haven't killed this because dogridge's place is really nifty and there are a lot of things one can do.

I'm a kind of person who breaks things down into smaller parts...and sort of lets the inditial part(ial) project dictate where I go from there. I also like it when a person wants to attempt something like this themselves.

dogridge did state "...he did not indicate what should be planted on this terrace., so I'm assuming this is the terrace that she is focusing on.

By the way, as I've gotten older, my skin has gotten thicker.

-Ron-

"We just moved in 2 yrs ago. I have tried to undertake the landscape in a logical manner, completing the grading and hardscape first, then onto the larger trees, hedges and shrubs, and finally detail planting. ****We do have a master plan done by a garden designer, but he didn't really specify what to put on that middle terrace.****"

I didn't withhold this info, it was on the original post about garden rooms.

Anyhow- Having lurked for quite a while and seen many of the other newbie posts, I didn't get any more or any less than what I expected from this forum.

I totally understand about needing a place to release tension. We do it all the time in my field. I can't tell you haow many jokes we make about the guy who has had a "mighty internal fart" or the kid who had "spino mighty jesus" Everyone needs a sense of humor, especially about themselves.

I do want to express my appreciation for those of you who have helped me in my plight, whether by asking the right questions or pointing out things which allowed me to reassess my needs. I also appreciate the many practical solutions and ideas.

Re reading it I can see how "it would be an interesting exercise" could sound presumptuous. What I meant was that I assume many of the designers on this forum enjoy helping newbies (since they don't get paid for it) so I thought they might appreciate a project where there is homeowner interest in learning about design and a slightly larger budget than many of the posts. (We're not millionaires, but I do realize that over the long run (20 yrs) I will spend $100-$150K on the landscape)

I don't intend to be disrespectful, I realize that many of you have talents that I don't posess, it takes many different skill sets to make the world go round.

With that, I hope that we can move forward and come up with some great ideas for that terrace!

After walking the terrace and looking closely- a few more things that could produce a challange... there is a 10% grade (is that too much for a small oval lawn (9 x35 ft)? The stairs jutt out abour 4 ft from the upper retaining wall, making the distance from the bottom step to the lower wall a mere 11 ft. (pretty narrow)

Thanks...dogridge

So, according to this thread, the board rules are:
1) suck up to the "pros", and
2) ask for help only if you really need it (forget it if you have horses and a guest house and lots of resources).
Maybe we should add this to the FAQs?

dogridge,

I was reading over some of the observations Mindy made on the other thread and I think they add some real insight to your situation.

The comment, "I'll be busy for at least 60 years ;)" is especially relevant.

I say focus on that particular terrace for now. Whether you want to see it as a garden 'room' or not. In time, the different areas you are focused on at the moment will take on characteristics of their own and you will get the feel on how to blend in with an adjoining area.

As an aside, other than that particular terrace, I do like catkim's idea of an orchard past that. Either a formal orchard or an informal one.

Over the long haul, the primary issues will probably be affordability, maintenance, and burnout. I hope you and your family like gardening. It can turn into a wonderful and rewarding family endeavor.

On sites like this, fellow posters like Mindy can be part of a support group to give advice, insight, and direction as well.

You are soooo fortunate.

-Ron-

Ron- Thanks so much for your posts. I did read Mindy's post and it sounds like we are in the same boat. She has some great ideas for using the space to it's best advantage. I totally agree with the 60 yrs thing. It is funny, because I often refer to my garden in phases- the 5 year phase, 10 yr phase and 20 yr phase. Although I would love to have a fairy godmother come and create the whole thing overnight, I have learned to enjoy the journey (as was discussed on another thread) I do hope my son enjoys gardening as he grows. I have already taught him to pull weeds, however at 2 years old, he has a hard time discriminating between weeds and flowers!!

At the moment, my plan for the terrace is to make a small lawn 9x35 with a small box hedge on the long sides. In each corner, I plan a grouping of a ornamental grass or perhaps a shrub rose (though JB are terrible here- I am testing an 'old rose' Katy Road pink, that is supposed to be disease resistant and maybe I can get my guinea hens to eat the beetles!) At one end I plan a white chinese fringe tree, annabelle hydrangea, and a bench, on the other end I plan on a path leading from the central part of the yard, with a view along the long axis looking toward the bench. Lining the path will be 2 additional fringe trees, more annabelles and possibly a spirea. It sounds like alot of work, however, it is easy at this stage with just paper and pencil. I suspect it will be a good 6 months before everything gets planted, but that is what winter is for- dreaming.

One practical question I have is what is the maximum grade for a small lawn? Right now it is about 10%. I think I can get it a bit more level, but not completly.

Thanks everyone. Let me know what you think of my ideas...

You can physically have a lawn on a 10% slope, but I wouldn't recommend it, and leveling this off to create a more gentle slope would help the lawn act as the anchor to the surrounding plantings, or emphasize the terrace aspect.
You have so many great public botanic gardens in the triangle area of North Carolina, that I got a chance to see this last May, and I think visiting them to get design ideas could help you alot.

You might also find that you will get more relevant design feedback if you could perhaps scan your proposed ideas in plan, with your ideas superimposed. Verbal explanations are all well and good, but with a property this size it is hard for someone not there and familiar with your property to get a good sense of what you have in mind. Have you also considered a follow up consultation with the designer to flesh out the concept? I wouldn't be afraid to ask him to consider fresh ideas you may have, but the original design may have more continuity if it is fleshed out abit.

As to snappish replies from the design pro's on this site, maybe they are suffering from cabin fever this time of year, as afterall, Iowa, Cape Cod and Quebec are not the most pleasant places to be gardening this time of year, and they may be sick of all the relatives over the holidays! While I admire the fortitude to stick with that type of severe winter year after year, I can't quite imagine having to actually endure it.

It would be difficult for me to really give valid design input on such a large lot in such different climatic conditions, without actually visiting the site. Breaking down your requests for input and feedback might more realistically generate better replies if they were more specific and detailed and based on your ideas, rather than being open ended...

Did you ever think of running for a political office David? Lawn as anchor is so old and new at the same time it is what those with a more abrasive style (me) could never get away with suggesting and you make it sound so right. Can I invite you up here next week when we are promised more snow and temperatures in the double 'f's'.

Tony,
I don't think I would last more than 10 minutes outdoors with your weather! I've only visited the northeast once in winter, and caught 3 days in Washington, D.C.(I know, I know, D.C. is more southern than northeastern), after they had just had 2 feet of snow. It was only bearable because I was off to Salvador, Brazil the next day, and knew it would be summer weather again shortly!

It must take a lot more discipline to be a landscape designer/architect back east, where one can't slip between design and installation at a whim, and must actually plan out a work load for the whole year to keep busy in winter.

Somehow I don't really see myself as the diplomatic politician type, as I would be too inclined to give my true thoughts at some point in the discussion, but usually am able to start out diplomatically...