Long term planning for veg gardens and orchards

18 years ago

Hi,

This looks like the right forum to ask this question.

I have acquired a very old farm property that is no longer a working farm and the acreage was cut down to 13 acres, mostly wooded.

THere's about 3 clear acres surrounding the house, flat, may have been pasture once but now it's lawn.

I'd like to put in an orchard, brambles and small fruits and a veg garden. I'd also like to retain at least the yard around the house for ornamentals.

How much land have you allotted to fruit growing out of what you own and how much to a kitchen garden (veg and herbs)?

If you were able to do it over again and had the money, time and help to do it right given your current location , what would you do to make your working garden more efficient and pleasant? Would you change the siting? Add any buildings, specific fencing, change the sizes/locations/materials used in your plot(s), pathways (if any)? WHat really bugs you about your garden setup that you wish you could change right away?

I am kind of frozen in inaction except for thinking I ought to order some fruit trees since it will take several years for those to mature. I'm getting close to 50, so I'm also thinking about "mature" gardening aches and pains...

Thanks so much for your response!

Suje

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Comments (9)

gldno1
18 years ago
I totally understand your question. I am gardening at 66. I would keep the mowing lawn small. Decide what you like and want from a vegetable garden....do you plan to can or freeze. Make a list of those veggies, figure how much space is required. I would start the garden small if you have never gardened before. You can get great info from your state extension people about how to raise anything for your area.

If you can bend and squat without difficulty, I would certainly have some strawberries. Blackberries and other brambles are a bit of trouble, but delicious. Be sure you understand their growing and pruning requirements.

As for fruit trees, most require 7 to 10 sprays a season to have good quality fruit. The one fruit that comes to mind requiring no sprays is pears and I don't spray my sour cherry tree. If you want to cultivate this as a semi-hobby thing for retirement. I would plant trees soon, most take 3-5 years to produce.

Ornamentals.......I am trying to get more shrubs and grasses and ornamental trees so that I won't have so much to maintain as you do with perennials. Bulbs are great, once you get them in the ground, they just require feeding now and again; likewise clematis.

At your age, I sure wouldn't hesitate to plant whatever I wanted. Think of the wasted years between now and whenever (if ever) when you can't garden. My neighbor who is 85 moved to her present home about 15 years ago and planted trees. They are now lovely shade trees. If she thought she was too old at 70, they wouldn't be there now for her to enjoy.

As to layout, that is a personal preference thing once you are sure you have the right amount of sun and drainage required for things to thrive. Of course, you need the garden to be close to a water source. My biggest problem here is too much shade for my veggie garden. The trees were here when we moved in 1991. Be sure you don't plant anything that will shade your garden on the south side.

Wow, I think I have covered everything. Good luck, don't let indecision bog you down. I wish I had planted my fruit trees the first thing; just did some last fall.
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lucky_p
18 years ago
I'm in agreement with Glenda on the orchard.
Pears - Asian & European types, sour cherries, persimmons, and mulberries are all pretty much 'no-spray' fruits. Apples and any stonefruits other than tart cherries are going to be very spray-intensive, even if you plant the 'disease-resistant' varieties. That said, very early apple varieties, like Yellow Transparent(NOT Lodi!), and some of the good edible crabs(Chestnut, Centennial, Dolgo, Wickson, etc.) will produce decent fruits with minimal to acceptable levels of insect/fungal damage.

Blueberries & gooseberries are pretty trouble-free; Blackberries take a little mor work, but they're worth it.
I'll recommend Kiowa, if you don't mind a thorny variety - semi-erect, with minimal need for trellising/support. Triple Crown is hard to beat as a non-thorny variety, but you'll have to trellis it.
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fancifowl
18 years ago
I would definatly take the time to properly prepare the soil before doing any plantings. For most berries that would be a minimum of 1 year in advance, same for veggies too. It just saves so much work later on. I orient my rows from East to West so all get the sun, no shade. I try to plant on a slight slope for good air drainage and run rows so there is the least erosion. There is so much info on the internet, many university sites, to assist in gardening, fruit production. I spend most winters researching new tecniques and planning new cover crops, varieties, et cetera.
I havent been able to figure out how to best manage my Triple Crowns?? I think I prefer the thorny bbs,
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Pipersville_Carol
18 years ago
Here's what I did: The farm-compound area of our property (house, barn, gardens, patios, septic field, etc) is about an acre in size, and I placed the veggie garden and orchard within that acre. It's about 80 feet from the house and 30 feet from the barn (water and manure supply). Close enough to be pretty, but far enough away so I don't have to see how weedy it's gotten! The house itself is surrounded by ornamental flower and shrub gardens (also somewhat weedy, alas).

The veggie garden is 24x24 feet, with 7-foot-high deer fencing. It's too big, even with a huge unplanted work area in the center. The perennial crops (asparagus, horseradish, raspberries) are my favorites. Don't hesitate to devote lots of garden space to these crops (I filled about a third of the garden with them). They're low-maintenance and produce a good yield, and there'll still be plenty of room for annual veggies. Asparagus takes several years to get established, so plant it as soon as possible if you like it.

I planted 10 dwarf orchard trees on a north-facing slope behind the veggie garden, and have lost several trees every year since. Peaches do really well for me. Cherries invariably die (too wet? disease from native cherries?). Apples struggle. Pear struggle. I bought the first batch of trees as mail-order whips, and they were just too delicate. This year I'm going to bite the bullet and buy large trees from a local nursery. I tried an aggressive (organic) spraying program one year, and didn't spray the other years, without noticing much of a difference. I think fruit yield is largely dependent on weather and there's not much you can do to change that.

If I could do it again, I'd make the gate into the garden wide enough for the farm tractor. As it is now, I have to wheelbarrow everything in.

Good luck, and have fun!
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Roberta_z5
18 years ago
You are young enough to do it all!!!!! Start small, get yourself some nice tools and equipment (that's another topic!) and go for it. Thinking that you will be too old is a defeatest attitude. If you start it now, in 15/20 years you won't be too old because you will have been doing it right along and you will keep in shape.

We bought our property 8 years ago and planted our first fruit trees. We weren't living there -- only going there on weekends until finally now we live here. We made all the mistakes possible, but we just figure that was our tuition to the "School of Veggies and Perennials." Now, I must admit that at 64 yrs. old, it gets a little harder each spring to get my bod in shape to bend and stoop. Sometimes I could be in that commercial "I'VE FALLEN AND----"

Just go for it. Plant the "bones" of the garden first and protect them from varmints. The shrubs grow very fast and for this year just do a small veggie garden. GardenWeb is a wonderful source for forums to help you learn all you need to know. Have fun with it. Gardening keeps you young.
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paulyn
18 years ago
Good for you for looking ahead. Some of the things that have worked well for me are:

A row of espaliered fruit trees (for easy care, low to the ground)
Strong, permanent trellises for things to grow on (you only have to build them once)
Concrete raised beds (they don't rot out like wood)
Wide gates on all 4 sides of the garden (cuts down on walking)
A strong link fence all around the garden ( doubles as a trellis so gives plenty of room for things to grow up)
Sitting places all over the garden (for rest and pleasure)
..........
Some mistakes I've made:
I mixed flowers with veggies so I was afraid to eat some questionables.
Made the raised beds too wide. Now I'm redoing them to 3 1/2 feet.
Didn't keep a garden journal so now I don't remember the kinds of fruit trees I planted, and what they need for pollinizers.
Took too long pulling out things I didn't like. (I hated jostaberries but paid too much to want to rip them out. I finally did, after they were huge.)
Focused too much on the bugs and not enough on the beauty.

I don't spray anything. If it lives, it lives; if it dies it dies.

When I was 50 I was strong so I built a large garden and made things convenient for my grandkids. Now at 66, I'm the one who needs the convenience.

Best wishes. Lyn
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heirloomtomato
18 years ago
I am a bit in the same situation as you. We just moved to where we are now and have 20 acres, which is great! My lawn is huge and there were already apple trees here when we moved. They look nice and rustic but the fruit is terrible! To get them to produce well, I know we would need to spray a lot. I love the way they look, but I'm not sure I'm up to spraying standard (meaning they are big) apple trees that many times a year. I would dearly love to have some decent apples though! We plan to put in all the bramble fruits, asparagus, and I have blueberries, rhubarb, and currents already. I can and freeze a lot. My garden is approximately 38 x 70 feet and I use every bit of it. I rework my plans several times each Spring so I can fit more in! We were lucky to have an already established garden plot when we moved here from the previous owners - we expanded it 10 feet longwise and 10 feet width wise last Spring. I also want to put in some strawberries and I will definately be getting pear, plum and maybe cherry trees. Still may try the semi-dwarf apples but am not sure yet. My garden is about 25-30 feet from my back kitchen door. This is ideal for me as I can just run out to the garden anytime I need something. I am also putting in a kitchen herb garden off the side of my regular garden this Spring. I love to garden -can you tell! LOL! We also may plant a hedge with edibles and bird and wildlife friendly plants. Hazelnuts/filberts can be grown as a hedge type bush. We had elderberries at our last place and I may plant some here. Hubby loves elderberry jelly! I also make jelly from the wildcherry trees and that is my favorite! We have black walnuts down by our creek and some hickory nut trees. I just planted some paw paw seeds, but who knows what will happen with those. We would love to be as self-sufficient as possible. Because the lawn we have now is so big I have no problems giving up more space for plants - less mowing ;o) Although mowing around extra trees can be a hassle too!
Karen
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granby
18 years ago
A couple things you may want to consider: Generally you want to time planting at different intervals so you have a continual harvest. I find this really hard to do in a single garden space.

Another thing to consider is the state of your soil. If it is horrible (like mine was), consider getting a feeder pig to dig it up. They work better than a rototiller, double digging and many other things. And they fertilize the whole works. Pigs followed by chickens are the perfect gardening combination. A pig is also a good choice if you have a serious weed problem (typically the worst are various grasses that propogate via underground tubers).

Another issue to consider is birds. I've had some gardens that birds never bothered, but they are raising heck in my current one. Basically anything green popping out of the ground not strongly protected by netting or chicken wire disappears within a day or two. If you have to protect any and everything that comes up from seed, this may effect your layout.
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bulldinkie
18 years ago
We moved in and waited to see what we had before we did much,We planted semi dwarf trees in a grow.Here in S.central Pa theres a nurserythat was here years and years.One day she told me her father always said plant fruit trees on a side of hill,for proper drainage etc.
We made raised beds for gardening I love gardening this way,easy top care for,everything grows well.
I planted raspberries,blueberries,grapes,fruit trees,strawberries,then we got horses,reg.Texas longhorn cattle,chickens.Were here now 13 years.Everything is doing great.
we also have 5 black walnut trees,butternut tree.We have 40 acres,I also put dwarf fruit trees in pots sitting around,I have the tall fruit trees that are just trunk no limbs,forget thier name.Got alot of apples one year.
A large pond full of fish,we added another up further.
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Long term planning for veg gardens and orchards

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