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Vegetable Gardening

Treated wood ( purchased in 2005) for raised beds ?

13 years ago

We have leftover pressure treated lumber of varying sizes purchased in 2005. It has been outside since. I wanted to ask other forum members opinions if safe to use for veggie raised beds.

We usually grow tomatoes, eggplants, basil, Swiss chard, lettuce, etc.

Thank you.

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Comments (8)

lovinglife_2010
13 years ago
I'm not sure, everything that I researched said to use untreated wood so I just used untreated to be safe.
nygardener
13 years ago
It's treated with toxic chemicals. Not something you want your food to eat.
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When I built my current framed beds 20 years ago, I used PT lumber. At the time, it seemed like the best idea since sliced bread. But after 20 years, I have to wonder just how much is left that can leach into the soil. And the newer ways of treating wood do seem to be a lot less potentially harmful that the old arsenic compounds. So I am a bit conflicted about what to say now. After thinking on it for a while, I would say that I sure wouldn't re-use any of the old PT wood to make new frames, probably wouldn't buy new PT wood, and plan to replace my existing frames (and the soil within) with either artificial wood or cinder blocks (and new soil). The artificial wood is not cheap and isn't terribly strong either (thinking of how often I put pressure on the frames while turning the soil to add compost). I think I'll redo my deck tops with it (adding more joists), but use cinder blocks to replace the old PT wood garden bed frames. And I kind of like the idea of having the holes in the tops of the cinder blocks to plant flowers in all around the edge... I'll have to learn about cementing the blocks together though (an undiscovered subject for me at the moment). On the other hand, if I had some reason to use PT wood (like having a bunch on hand or a cost consideration), I would line the bed with pond liner (best) or black plastic (OK). That would have to minimize any leaching, I think.
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Hello, I like to know if I can use pressure treated wood for a raise bed for a vegetable garden?
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I thought of using cedar, but when I priced it, it was way too expensive and didn't make sense to do it. And I'm sorry to say, but if you're trying to grow as much food as you can, two 4x4 beds are not very much and I think that is a lot of money for two small beds. I have one long bed 12" high, 11ft long and 4ft wide. I have four beds 12" high, 4ft x 4ft. I made them with Pine because I had some already and didn't have to buy much more. It's actually been about 8 years since we built them and they are ready to be replaced now. Now I want to double the square footage that I can grow in. So I want to build… Two beds 12" high, 16ft long, 4ft wide Six beds 12" high, 6ft long, 4ft wide That doubles my growing space. I don't feel I need deeper beds, because vegetables are annuals and I've read somewhere recently that they don't really need 18" deep beds. 12" is just right for me and I don't mind bending and kneeling. So less wood. I priced what cedar I could find and it was going to cost me over $600. to build those beds. I called 12 lumber yards and only two had cedar and they weren't the dimensions I wanted either. Finally, one lumber yard, said he was steering people to use Eastern Hemlock rough sawn, which is very inexpensive. It is more rot resistant than Pine but less than Cedar. Estimates were 5yrs for Pine, 8-10 years for Hemlock, and 15yrs for Cedar. I priced the Hemlock and it was going to cost me $198. to build the same beds. So, if I built the hemlock and had to replace them in 10 years for another $200. It would still be $200. less than building the cedar beds, and would last me 5yrs longer.
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They still use the arsenate version but it's pretty much restricted to industrial uses like guard rails and trestles. It WILL leach, but the amount is small and the amount that even the hard core anti-chemical people (like me) say that could possibly be "taken up" by a plant and put into the edible bits is a tiny fraction of that fraction. It all boils down to where you draw the line in the sand, but I doubt, if you hire a whiz who owns a mass spectrometer, that you could find any amount of chrome, or copper, or arsenic in your garden food that is in any way different than normal God-given background amounts. But avoiding poisons in your food is a whole rigor, not an individual chemical thing. There are people here who dump poisons on their crops and say it's just fine. It's all up to you.
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digdirt2
13 years ago
Arsenic use in MOST pressure treated lumber was discontinued in 2003 so while the odds are this does not contain the arsenic there is no way to be sure. The new, current manufactured PT lumber and processing is approved for use around food crops, playgrounds, etc.

So that said, since it has been weathering outside for 4-5 years I would use it. Using fresh CCA lumber is one thing but this, if it had any in it to begin with, has leached out well already.

Ultimately it is your choice but I'd be comfortable using it.

Dave
bigtrout
13 years ago
I looked into this before building my beds and what I found was that most of the treated wood these days is not treated with the toxic chromium and arsenic that was used in the past. Supposedly, they are today treated with mostly non-toxic substance but I can't tell you what that is. I never went that far into it. I have difficulty believing that somehow, the trace amount of chemicals that may leach out of the treated wood are going to be transmitted into the flesh of various vegetables any more than substances contained in dog, cat, or horse feces is transmitted through the root system and into the fruit, leaf or vegetables. I suppose root crops could possibly absorb some amount through direct contact if concentrations were high enough but still, I find it hard to believe that it would absorb more than negligible amounts. Considering all the added unnatural chemicals/preservatives/dyes etc, we consume daily in our food and beverages, not to mention everything we breath, I concluded that, for me and my family at least, any chemicals in treated lumber is a non-issue vs. the benefits of eating fresh vegetables. YMMV
memphisminnie
13 years ago
I hope this doesn't jinx me, but this year I made my own raised garden out of leftover fencing material. The fencing had been left out for years. I also didn't plant anything besides marigolds right next to it. So, we'll see. I wondered the same thing about toxic chemicals. Then I also remember I have no problem injesting splenda, cokes, and hot dogs lol.
crispino
13 years ago
"The new, current manufactured PT lumber and processing is approved for use around food crops, playgrounds, etc."

Hey digdirt, do you have any kind of a reference for this? I tried researching this point a couple years ago for this very same reason and couldn't really find a straight answer one way or the other. I eventually just went with regular pine boards to be on the safe side. But if the new PT wood really is safe, then when the current boards fail in another few years I will replace them with PT boards. Anyway, if you happen to have some kind of a reference it would be much appreciated. Thanks.

- Chris
ccawadew
13 years ago
Check out this study done to test for arsenic in raised bed gardens with CCA lumber.

Here is a link that might be useful: Arsenic in Raised Bed Gardens with CCA
digdirt2
13 years ago
Chris - yes I used to have a bunch of bookmarks on the issue but dumped them a couple of years back when it became a non-issue (for me;). I'll see if I can dig some of them up for you and Google will likely find some too.

Since 2003 EPA has banned CCA in residential uses (still available for some commercial applications) and the chem used since then is alkaline copper quat, aka ACQ. Other forms of PT are also used - see Simpson below. You can find info on it too, copper being a natural soil component.

Then there is the tags now required to be stapled into the ends of all new PT boards and its EPA claims of safety. Impt. to check those when buying new wood. Lastly there is the research published by the manufacturers (grain of slat here) such as YellowWood and Simpson (linked Simpson below).

Lastly the university studies such as Wade linked above.

Keep in mind though that what is under discussion here is old aged wood of unknown PT history.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: Simpson - PT FAQs

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