not with peas and spinach!

I have carrots, kohlrabi, radish, beets, lettuce, peas and beans in.

For the next 3 days we're going down to high 30's. Peas and beans are in pop bottle cloches, thanks for reminding me...I'll put a bit of cover over them I think....but maybe not....soil is unlikely to get to cold, mid day temps all in the 60's...

All those are plants that can take some cold. I wouldn't worry about your friends =) If it gets really cold, double up the protection by adding a plastic tarp over the sheets... just be sure to take it off the next morning if temps are going to heat up.

First, all the plants you listed there can tolerate frost and even freezes (although repeated freezes night after night will wear them down). Don't listen to street advice. If you plant the peas when everyone does it (May, I suppose?), they'll get heat stress during flowering. In my zone, May long weekend somehow became the official planting time for everything. Ridiculous, if you ask me. The optimum planting time for spinach will never be the same as for tomatoes, which won't be the same as for okra.

Another very important consideration is that planting dates vary from year to year. They can be as much as 1 month before in warm years, 1 month after (or never!) in cold years.

We are all doomed to failure, it is the human condition. But someone had to eat the first oyster, and someone has to be the first when planting a garden. Way to go.

This is why I love being on this forum - without even trying I've learned something new - pop bottle cloches. I have to say T-bird, never heard of those before until you mentioned them in your response. This is my third year of gardening, and only my second year of gardening "hardcore" so I still have lots to learn. Given my occupation, I'm never opposed to learning new things.

For any other new gardeners out there who don't know what pop bottle cloches or have only a vague idea, check out this website. It gives step by step directions on how to make pop bottle cloches on the cheap, and does a great a job explaining the benefits.
http://www.yougrowgirl.com/garden/pop_cloche.php

Just wanted to add that Brett Anderson at Accuweather.com forecasted a warm May/June for the Midwest and East. I bet you'll have a much better harvest of those cool season crops than your colleagues! :) Since you can't control the weather, the next best thing is to milk it to your advantage rather than following rules blindly.

You can also make a Wall O Water from soda bottles filled with water. It does a great job of protecting plants. of course you have to have the empty soda bottles, root beer floats anyone?

I come from a country which doesn't suffer from the extremes of temp that the US does, So I was oblivious to day's to plant!, here it appears to be Memorial Day weekend, I have since the first week of March, slowly been adding to my outdoor beds, a block of carrots, some kale, peas etc without any problems we have had a couple of freezes, a few frosts and a flood!, not everything has a garden fleece on it, I popped in some broccoli and cauli, seeds at the same time I sowed the indoor ones, of course everything was slow to start, and my transplants of broccoli are far bigger than the one sown indoors, but the ones outside are far sturdier.
my average last frost date is the 26th April, and last frost date is May 10th, buy my reckoning if these hardy plants continue to grow at the rate they are, as we do get some days of HOT! and they rocket off, I will be harvesting some of the quicker stuff before my neighbours even start preparing the ground! this happened last year which was my first year, and is going well this year.
I nearly fell into this received Wisdom, thinking I had been lucky, until I decided on a whim to try a fall garden (without much success, I might add! as the whim came to late for a lot of stuff to grow! except for Parsnips and some carrots.) but what I witnessed with some of the hard freezes was amazing! as the day warmed and sometimes only just above freezing, broccoli cabbage just sprung back to life! obviously there is a finite number of time this can happen, but armed only with a fleece they survived without growing until Dec, and then became a soggy puddle!
but imagine Oct til Dec, with increasing coldness, not heat as in the Spring, so I have done it, I don't plant oodles of stuff at a time, just enough to keep me going, so if they do fail, I can replant and certain things, I do a few indoors, just in case and as I said before they are bigger,.
to quote my old boss, who was quoting someone else far cleverer than him! I am sure :-) "if you do what you have always done, you will get what you always got"
good luck (PS only cool weather crops, not mato's I'm not mad! :-))

Not doomed at all! Here we've had the same kind of crazy warm weather, and I planted early to take advantage of it. Unfortunately, it's been too darned hot for my cool weather crops! The spinach and lettuce are pretty much toast, though the snap peas are doing well and the radishes finally seem to be pulling through. Oh well, I guess if I pull out all the spinach I'll have more room for eggplant instead. I'll just have to wait until fall for my salads.

Look at it this way, if a freak cold snap comes along and kills everything, what are you really out? You blew a bunch of seeds. They're still being sold at the store, you can get more. If they don't freeze, you've got good, early, fresh veggies. Let the naysayers drool.

Here is a link that might be useful: Tales of a Transplanted Gardener

Let them squeal, me and you will be enjoying produce While they are tilling and planting. I even have back up peppers and tomatoes under lights. If they don't make it "oh well" as greenbean says I have more seeds and they sell them in town if I run out. charge ahead! Fear of failure is failure!

Curt~ BTW I have some transplanted Pok Choy with leaves ready
to harvest.

I'm new to this gardening and one of the first things I learned is if I ask 5 different people when to plant whatever I get 5 different answers, and no matter what I say I've done, I've done the wrong thing!
So now if I get free advice, I nod and thank you and assume I may have gotten what I paid for!

As has been stated above, the absolute worse thing that can happen is you'll lose some seeds. But I'd wager you'll be eating salad and peas soon.

Since I began gardening thirteen seasons ago I have always been one to start early. Co-incidentally, the first season was an unusually early one to warm up, like this year, and like 1621 was for the pilgrims. Planting early in those years pays off not surprisingly. IME, though, in 9 out of 10 years planting early gains nothing in time to harvest, and costs seed in reduced germination rate.

The thing to remember is that ones co-workers and neighbors do not necessarily know what the normal planting times are, but that tried-and-true knowledge is there. Someone in your area knows from long experience. And then there is microclimate. In my area for example, the pros do not plant peas until about now, but in the microclimate of my yard I can profitably plant of april fool's day. Earlier loses seed and gains no time to harvest.

Many gardeners wait too long to plant their gardens. It's a rolling operation--spinach amd parsley can be sowed as soon as the ground can be worked (I do it in late Feb/early March). I'm in zone 6 here, despite the heading. Peas, even in Massachusetts, were traditionally planted April 19, Patriot's Day. I sow them in late March. Already in here are beets, carrots, radishes, lettuces, Pac Choi, potatoes. I set out the cabbages and broccoli yesterday. I won't put out warm weather crops until Memorial Day Weekend--tomatoes, peppers, sweet potatoes.

Just a little note to my above post I do go by soil temperature taken at 8:00 a.m. 4 inches deep and keep out a weather watch daily and cover the less hardy plants from frost with bed sheets. It is fun for me I have the time I am retired you know. Dunka!

Curt~

"My lettuce, spinach, kohlrabi, swiss chard, and peas are popping out of the ground like crazy."

Let them say what they may. The proof is in the pudding.

Jim

You have done your research and planted vegetables that can take a bit of cool, spring weather. The only problem I see is now you have to watch the weather and cover your plants if temperatures are expected to drop to low temperatures. Not a large problem at all. ItÂs good to experiment and see what CAN grow in early spring conditions. I am doing a little bit of experimenting this year too for the first time.

If pushing the seasons are something you are interested in, I would suggest the book by Elliot Coleman, Four Seasons Harvest.

Rachel
GrafixMuse's Garden Spot

Are your "fellow teachers" gardeners? I've learned that some non-gardeners really believe that the gardening season begins on Memorial Day and ends Labor Day. I learned about wintersowing this year and decided to try it. I have a motley collection of sprout-filled containers on my screen porch, including tomato seedlings. Some of the seeds were planted in February, and they're fine. When I talk to people about it, even experienced gardeners, I get raised eyebrows too. That's half the fun of it.

I remember one year when I lived in the upper Hudson Valley, zone 5a. I did a little experiment to satisfy my curiosity. I bought three wall-o-waters, started three "Oregon Spring" tomatoes indoors in March, and planted them out in April in the wall-o-waters. (W-o-W's are a PITA, by the way.) I did the rest of my tomatoes on the normal schedule for the area: seeds in April, transplanted at the end of May. The neighbors saw the W-o-W's, and asked what I was up to. I explained and boy did the eyebrows go up. Everyone thought it was crazy and told me the plants would die. The plants got snowed on, and the tops froze where they stuck out of the W-o-W's, but they stayed green inside. When the weather warmed up, the plants took off. I did get ripe tomatoes off the experimental plants, just not as early as I had hoped; and I felt very smug. ;-)

Enjoy your garden. I'm glad to hear that you've planted so many things, and they are growing like mad. Whatever happens next, you will have a story to tell.

For example, I planted a few early peas this year around march 22nd. Even though it has been a very unusually warm spring and soil temp is well up on normal, still germination on that first planting was very poor. So warmish year or coldish one, I always am instructed by reality that earlier than april one is a waste of time and seed for peas in my area. The same seed could get planted ten days later and it won't delay pod on the table by a day, there will simply be more pods.

Greens are a tad different than fruiting crops, since the leaf is the crop. So there it does pay to get seed germinated as early as sun-angle will allow some decent growth. But if the frost-protection scheme is sheets and blankets then it can't be much ahead of the normal time. A cold frame is a much more effective method. Most effective and easiest of all for very early outdoor greens is to establish perennial self-seeding crops as described in another thread recently.

Thanks for all the advice. I am glad to hear others plant early too. And just so everyone knows, everything is still doing great! It got down to 35 last night, but I chose not to cover my beds because it wasn't quite freezing. As far as I can tell the seedlings all look healthy. My lettuce appears to be getting a little bigger every day.

In the past I have always had trouble growing peas. I now suspect it is because I was planting too late. I also think it has to do with which garden bed I was planting my peas in. I have a ten raised garden beds, all right next to each other. They look like giant steps going down the side of my house. Some of the beds have more clay in them than others. Last year I planted my peas in soil that had a high clay content. This year I planted my peas in a garden bed with hardly any clay at all. Last year three pea plants sprouted, and one died right away. This year I have 16 pea plants coming up. That's a huge difference!

I also bought this product from Burpee that you are supposed to apply when putting the pea seeds in the ground. It's supposed to add necessary nutrients for pea plants. That stuff was a total bust. I only applied it to two rows. One row of pea plants didn't come up at all, and the other row, only two pea plants have come up. But all the rows where I didn't apply this Burpee concoction are doing great.

Also I am now trying the pop bottle cloches on some of my pea plants. All I can say is wow. The pea plants under the pop bottles are clearly growing faster than those that aren't covered.

Here in Madison we have to use a row cover over seedlings, for a week or two, not for frost protection, but to keep the rabbits from taking all the seedlings down to the root. Have you made a pact with the bunnies?

My pact with the bunnies involves fences, bunny traps, and in my husband's case it is about to involve an air pellet gun. Last year the bunnies devistated my green beans. Luckily they didn't figure out about my green beans until after I had harvested a few times. My green beans are now about to grow behind some chicken wire.

Bunny stew anyone?

Just as a note of encouragement, I had kale, lettuce, turnips, spinach, and carrots all winter this year with floating row covers. Our lowest temperature was eleven degrees. I don't know your climate, but if your friends plant in May, it sounds like the odds are with you.

How do you bait your bunny traps? I shooed Peter out of my beans this afternoon in broad daylight. I knew something had been eating them!

It seems that I push the season a little every year and it usually pays off big time, but may cause a little extra work in having to cover a few times.

One year the old time gardeners told my DH it was time to get the tomato plants in, during the same week that we ate our first three tomatoes of the season. But I have been on the opposite end of that as well. Once while living in Aurora near Denver CO, I went out back to start planting my garden. My over-the-fence neighbor was in his garden also and as I stopped to visit with him I noticed he was picking head lettuce. I was shocked. He said that he just threw the seeds on the snow just before another snow was coming and they came up when they were ready.

Wow, soonergrandmom, never heard of anyone planting seeds in the snow. That is even earlier than I would probably go, but clearly it worked for your neighbor.

Donnabaskets- the bait I use is half an apple wired to the metal plate of the trap. It prevents the squirrels from making off with my apple, and forces the bunny to trigger the trap when it tugs on the trap. I just got the trap this past Christmas, and have yet to catch bunny, but this has more to do with operator error than clever bunnies. So far the fences have been way more helpful.

I live in Minnesota and my broccoli is producing heads already. I don't even try exxplaining it to people. People think I'm nuts, but Broccoli will survive a pretty good frost. Something new I tried this year with the broccoli was to add christmas lights amongst the plants under the hoop cover - only on cold nights(like less than 34 degrees). Think of what the neighbors thought of my hooped raised bed aglo with christmass lights!

This year I am pushing the envelope too. I just planted out tomato and green peppers. The tomato were wintersown, so I have more seedlings if anything goes wrong. I bought the peppers, but I have wintersown peppers coming up in containers as a back up. You can also just put jugs of water near your plants in case of frost. Evidently the jugs put out energy while they are cooling and this keeps the plants warm. (I know I didn't explain that well -sorry)

We also bought a small cold frame, so we are harvesting baby spinach, lettuce, cilantro and parsley for salads. I planted these in containers. I have sorrell that comes back each year so we add that to the salad too. Yum.

Mean- I am jealous. I just put my broccoli and cauliflower in last night. I always buy both these brassicas as seedlings and put them in my shade garden. Compared to last year, I think I have my broccoli and cauliflower in three weeks earlier. Even so I remember these plants taking forever last year to develop their heads. I was almost convinced it wasn't going to happen. In the end,though, I was able to harvest all the plants and enjoy them.

Maybe this year I will be enjoying my broccoli and cauliflower earlier.

With your selections, you're not forcing the season. Wait... you got 80 degree already and I got hail a few weeks ago?

This is why I always push the season coz I never know what our season really is in northern california. Which is why 'm always confused. Which is why I saved soda bottles, milk jars, and corp covers. Which is why I always lose a few plants but always get longer harvest. The try and error and the unpredictability. This is why gardening is fun.

You are not alone!

Uh-oh-- I wasn't supposed to plant my peas til Patriot's Day? I thought it was St. Patrick's Day (March 17). But so far they're fine.

Could this early planting survival be related to global warming?

Carol

Well, I thought that I'm early. You guys make me feel better and more confident. After all, this is my very first year to do gardening. On the top of that, everything is from seeds. So far I've planted: potatoes on Good Friday (didn't even know that this is a potatoes day - I have already serious sprouts), peas, winter sowed - growing nicely, cabage - red, green(?), black, spinach, letuce, fenel, parslay, celeriac, salsify, beets, leek, bunch of herbs - all winer sowed. Carrots, directly sowed - also sprouting. And, the most important, I planted 6 tomatoes yestarday with "Wall of Waters". I've checked them today, doing fine.

I really believe, this year we'll be lucky, spring is already here. However, tonight, again, I've heard, that horrible word - FROST (we'll be fine, we'll be fine, we'll be fine....)

I figure as long as I am willing to cover my plants then I can plant early. Right now I just keep thinking about all the lettuce I will enjoy in the middle of May when others are just getting around to planting.

Isn't this the joy of gardening. You can experiment all you want. It does not really matter what happens. It's all a learning experience. Hey! There are no set rules and what is successful one year may not be successful another. I have had years where I could not get the zucchini to grow!

I have to chime in here for just a second, I am an early planter too. I have only been burned, i mean frozen, one time, and that was by a freak extreme freeze in Mid-May. We covered plants with everything we could find, and the only thing that kept my tomatoes from freezing was the old styrofoam coolers that we had kept in the shed. I now collect every one of those things I see at every yard sale, flea market, road side. We got down to -10 during that freeze for several days, and those tomatoes looked wonderful. I lost everything else. I wish you guys could have seen the trees around here after that, it was so sad. I have never seen trees with black leaves prior to that. That was the most difficult season I've ever endured as far as gardening goes. Last year, I had to replant, but it was because of too much rain. Personally speaking, a seed packet usually contains much more seed than I can possibly use anyway, so why not plant early? If I extend the season, get my gardening fix, and become the envy of my neighbors, that's fine with me, and if I have to replant everything for whatever reason, well, I just get to re-enjoy it. I work hard, and I do it for what I love, my kids, my garden, and my chickens, and it really isn't anyone's business what I choose to spend my money on. Happy Gardening everyone!!!

sheaviance1- It sounds like you experienced the worst possible scenario for early planting. I am actually surprised your tomatoes made it.

It's too bad everything else froze beyond help. But you are totally right about more seeds than you can possibly use in one packet. I always have seeds left over. This year I actually managed to plant the last of my open seed packets of loose leaf lettuce. I think some of the seed packets might have been two years old. This may explain why one row of lettuce just didn't come up. No matter - I decided to try head lettuce for the first time, and it's popping out of the ground like crazy.

I am hoping we don't get a several day freeze like you described. I am not sure if I could replant my peas. But there is always next year. A fact of gardening is not everything grows every year, and the sooner a gardener accepts that, the better the gardening experience will be.

Ha Ha I just could not resist a lot of my friends are just now getting their gardens planted and I have harvested many crops and meals. Spinach is done from the heat and it is now to late to plant guess who had fresh spinach for about 3 weeks. Bock Choi, Chard 3rd round of radish.Fresh Lettuce,Now how about fellow posters any stories to post or follow ups Miss it last time?

Curt

I'm in zone 8 so this is probably nothing to brag about. I'm harvesting the first round of royal burgundy beans and zucchini this year. Just when I'm tired of six months of snow peas. They were covered with soda bottles when young but it's worth it.

Hope all the early gardeners are doing fine despite the unusual weather.