You don't have to pull any stumps of trees, we never do. We just cut them off with a chainsaw as low as possible, and brush the stumps with undiluted roundup to kill the roots so it doesn't resprout. Then you can plant bushes, etc around the stumps so that you don't have to see them. Nearly all my flower beds are around old tree stumps, it looks ok. We even did that with old foundation planted yews out front of the porch, then planted ferns in front of them and it's working fine. Those stumps will eventually rot out.

I agree with the last post regarding leaving the stumps. You will, however, probably want to clear away underbrush & grasses in the immediate areas where you plant to reduce competition while the plants become established. Also, it is always important when undertaking a project like this to consider the time and resources involved. Plants will undoubtably have to be watered regularly, especially during the first growing season. With a large area like this it may make sense to carefully consider the species planted with respect to adaptability to the site.

First off...be sure to keep an eye out for poison ivy. I always seem to get a rash from that stuff every year. Also, there is a woodland garden forum here where you might be able to get some good information.

My mother in law just paid a crew something like $3000 to come in and clear the brush from here wooded lot (maybe 3 acres) and spread mulch. I have not seen it yet but my brother's neighbor did the same type of thing with his 1 acre lot. I have to say that it look very unnatural! My guess is that most of the brush will be back in just a few years.

I am pretty sure that Ken Druse has a book on this topic. I just looked at his web site (www.kendruse.com) and it looks like there are a couple that might be of interest: "The Natural Shade Garden", "The Natural Garden" and "The Natural Habitat Garden".

- Brent

I think before you tackle this project - you might want to do a bit of research about woodland restoration.

I agree with what others have said about stump removal. Leave them in place and they will rot off - adding organic matter to the soil.

Most woodlands, especially those intermingled with residential areas have become over run with exotic woody species like multiflora rose, buckthorn, autumn olive and others, just as you have described.

If you can identify the aggressive, non-desirable species and remove them, often times desirable understory species and woodland flowers will regenerate without having to plant anything at all. (The desirable woodland understory is dormant in the soil, being outcompeted/suffocated/over shaded by the aggressive shrubber.)

This method is not an overnight cure... it takes some time - to remove the bad plants and it takes a couple growing seasons for the desirable plants to re-establish. And then continued monitoring and removal of invasives is required to maintain desirable results.

Its something that you may want to look into... the best source of information that I have found is talking to a staff of professionals who maintain local natural areas.

I wanted to thank you for your thoughts, time, and suggestions yesterday, but big time thunderstorms and lots of lightening kept me away from the 'puter. I'll check out the Ken Druse books and the website.

We don't suffer from the plague of "undesireable", "escaped" plants here (we work on eradication programs; and it ain't easy work). Most of what needs to go are red maple saplings, oak saplings, and a ton of Hemlocks that have contentedly set up camp on our low, perpetually moist lot. My question about yanking stumps was with regard to the maples, that sprout and sucker for seemingly ever. I don't want to destroy the lovely carpet of spring ephemeral natives that cover the area or the native ferns that follow their fleeting show.

My goal is to thin out and allow more light to a few areas and to show mature trees that we enjoy to better effect. There are several lovely estates on my road and the effect of a few, judiciously selected/sited trees (dogwoods, redbuds) and rhododendrons/azaleas/Ilex verticillata is really quite arresting, allowing in the viewer a transition from more cultivated garden/border areas to the woodlands beyond. That's what I'm shootin' for. Mulching over Gaultheria procumbens, Lady Slippers, and the host of other spring treats ain't.

And the 2 areas I want to address are neither large nor far from a water source. You've given me good things to ruminate, thanks.

Another book to check out is The American Woodland Garden by Rick Darke. I live on a rather large acerage that was logged prior to our purchase of it, and I constantly do selective removal and planting, so I'll share a bit of my experience with this approach. I have 3 varieties of native viburnum and two of native dogwoods (including my favorite, Cornus alternifolia) that I leave and thin back the competition from, as well as some natives like rhodies, blueberries, Kalmia, and lots of ferns and wildflowers. I have added additional woodies like other rhodies and kousa dogwood, as well as natives that weren't already here like clethra, redbud, vernal witch hazel, and fringe tree.

I also do removal of invasives like barberry, buckthorn, honeysuckle and autumn olive with a combination of pulling with a pair of oversized pliers for the smallest plants in the loosest soil or cutting small saplings with a saw blade on an industrial strength weed whacker-type implement or a chainsaw, depending on the size. The ones I cut often get some Roundup directly on the resprouts, avoiding nearby desirable plants. We have drilled large holes in the top of a few of the larger stumps and added a bit of fertilizer as the damp and extra nitrogen encourages the growth of bacteria to rot the stumps. A brushhog (large tractor-mounted mower) has been helpful in keeping back growth of undesirables until some of our preferred plants have gotten large enough to fend for themselves. (Often my plants are small in order afford more of them.) I also do use Roundup on the poison ivy in areas where I or the animals will be as I'm really sensitive to it, but again, I shield or avoid nearby desireable plants.

I have acid, fast-draining silty soil with little organic matter, so I do mulch, but with quite light layers of shavings from my husband's woodshop that nestle down below the foliage of the native ground covers and spring ephermerals. It works rather like an addition to the natural fall of leaves and pine needles, and holds in moisture where it may help struggling native plants that need a bit more even moisture than my soil provides, and has worked quite well to prevent or reduce the sprouting of undesirable seeds of plants like blackberries.

Although I have lots left to do, it gives me joy to see the number of flowering plants in my partially to deeply shaded woodlands throughout the spring and early summer.

It sounds like much of what you've planned will thrive in your setting as long as you research preferred light levels for each individual variety and perhaps be ready to do a bit of moving around to make some plants happier. For instance I've found that Ilex verticillata really prefers a fair amount of light (close to full sun) to bloom/berry well and grow thickly. My Northern Hi-lights azalea is planted next to a Nova Zembla rhodie, which is supposed to take a fair amount of shade. The N. Hilight blooms prolifically every year, but the Nova Zembla is getting moved to at least 1/2 day sun, as it doesn't currently bloom.

Just one other thought - if you leave some of your small hemlocks, the dark green, fine-textured foliage makes a lovely contrast/backdrop to blossoming trees and shrubs and variegated folage.

I have a friend who girdled the bark on a tree she wanted to kill that otherwise would have suckered like crazy. It worked, but it took more than a full year.

It occurs to me, reading through this interesting thread, that it may be on the wrong forum. Or perhaps not. In establishing woodland or naturalistic gardens, I wonder to what degree such gardens typically reflect a "designed" landscape. Certainly, I have seen examples where this is so, but generally we seem to be working with what is already there - a bit like what is referred to in architecture as adaptive re-use. The interplay between man and environment is often so strong (in the best of such gardens in my opinion) that is hard to distinguish between the two. So too, I am thinking, the emotional bond and connectedness of people to their langscape, their garden, is perhaps greater.
The whole philosophy of "gardening WITH nature", though uninspiring to many, just seems to make such sense to me.

Gweirdo, I actually wondered the same thing about the "correctness" of putting my question on this forum. What prompted me to do it was watching my neighbor's magnificent home go up the same year our's did, and then watching as the landscape architect and a host of VERY skilled masons, and landscapers proceeded to "install" gracious, carefully selected shrubs/small trees to buffer the long driveway and soften the transition from lawns/borders to the surrounding woodlands. Sadly, I was too preoccupied with priming/sanding/painting sheetrock to pay attention to how they actually DID it. duh...

The property has been featured in several magazines and has been on many tours... it is breathtaking and inspiring in its subtlety. Nothing is "flashy", the grounds move effortlessly through the seasons and there is always something to make you look twice. And while there are some really very "choice" specimens, overall, the plant material selected is uniformly hardy and much of it is native to the area. Existing rhododendrons were carefully relocated to new sites and have thrived.

I was looking for some basic pointers on the actual DOING of the thinning/clearing... as usual, there has been great practical advice, and some very good book recommendations.

If you have an appreciation for and are inspired by the gardens described, as you obviously are, I have no doubt that you will ultimately be successful with future attempts in your own garden. One more book for your consideration, which I sort of referenced above is "Gardening With Nature" by James Van Sweden - inspiring and descriptive of a certain style of gardening that may be particularly applicable to larger properties such as your own.

I struck out at the bookstore on Sunday. Ordered the following from Amazon:
1.) "The Woodland Garden", Rob't. Gillmore
2.) "The Natural Habitat Garden", Ken Druse
3.) "The Woodland Garden, Planting in Harmony With Nature", Roy Forster.

I'll be heading to the "li-berry", too. There, I will be able to ogle really price-y books for free before deciding whether or not they belong in our own, personal "li-berry".

Today, we removed the multitude of saplings (a dozen) and took down a few larger "junk" trees(6-8), cutting them into 16" lengths for future firewood supplies. I turned a deaf ear to entreaties that "we" could "prune" the saplings into something really special... (I can be cruel). We critically assessed the next "front"... blackberry canes and goldenrod; NO poison ivy, though.

It has been overcast for 3 days now, and we received torrential rain on Saturday (a portion of the lawn is squishy and it seems logical to relocate Osmundas there and extend the existing natural fern field). I will be particularly interested to note the change in sun/shade patterns throughout the day. I have some pictures "before" and "after" the thinning, and it will be fun to sit and really compare them.

I contacted an arborist friend to address a few trees that are too large for us to handle by ourselves with anything resembling safety. We have employed him several times before and every time it's been money very well spent.

Hi Chelone - would you mind reporting back on the books your ordered?

DH did a similar project in our previous home. We had two acres, and the original owner let the back half of the property grow for 15 years. DH became an expert on multiflora rose - in fact, he became just a wee bit obsessive, to the point of pointing it out to me while driving anywhere ;) And then there were the multiflora rose factoids I'd constantly hear LOL.

Over 1.5 years, he killed/removed most of it and removed trash trees, which opened up pathways for the deer. Left all the stumps, and was careful to make sure adequate covered areas remained for wildlife. I teased him about his backpack of Roundup, but he turned the area into a beautiful, natural area. Just in time for us to move :(

Before we left, our neighbor looked in the back and said, "Who knew?!" I think they were originally worried about us clearing out the back, thinking we were bulldozing the yard. I don't think many folks understand that sometimes you have to remove the less-than-desireable stuff for the good stuff to grow.

Our new property is the opposite - great perimeter treeline but mostly open. So now our job will be adding to it to try and create a natural-looking space.

I'd love to hear what you think of those books!