Don thank you for your helpful feedback. I know nothing about grape growing so that information is golden. We have pretty dry summers up here in Plumas County. Last summer it didn't rain once. I'm thinking I should be able to water them fairly consistently this year while they are babies as I probably won't have grapes until at least next year. That's an assumption on my part. I have tried to grow Trumpet vines before but in the past my friend Mr. Gopher has eaten the roots before they could take hold. So I have not experienced the shedding seedpod thing. Maybe this year when I plant them I will put them in the ground in pots and just cut out the bottom. If that works I'll be cognizant of the plant trying to spread. I've had great joy with Virginia Creeper. I know many people are understandly suspicous of it but for me it's been a pleasure. It has been the one and only thing that would grow in the pure clay at the far end of my yard. But the words of warning are much appreciated. I know they can be very headstrong. Thanks again.

My original post was probably half Rant and half call for suggestions for fruit trees that are well suited to the Suburban Yard. There is a local University Horticulture Professor (And peach researcher) here who has gone on record on the Radio that Homeowners shouldn't fool with stone fruit in our area.... One of his Key Messages is "Don't buy a peach tree at the grocery store!" But.. The grocery stores have a big pile of $14.99 Peaches and Apples sitting out front this spring... Destined to die a painful and horrible death in someone's back yard next year.. He has many *Excellent* points... related to the short attention spans, lack of knowledge and commitment of your "Average" Homeowners... They buy the tree without knowing anything about what to buy, stick it in a hole, then wait for the bounty to arrive... What they get is a sick tree and a big pile of wormy and rotten fruit.. Lets face it -- a Red Haven or an Elberta or an Indian Blood Cling grafted onto a Guardian rootstock would stack the deck in the home owner's favor here in SC... but good luck buying one at the Supermarket or local nursery... You would probably have to mail order it... Thanks John

Gene is on the right track. You probably want a Fuyu (Jiro) persimmon; I have zero problems with this tree. Fig also no problems, and a beautiful landscaping plant. Black Mission fig is what I have, two crops a year. Have you considered grapes? V. labrusca (American) grapes like Glenora, Jupiter, Canadice, Reliance, (avail from Stark) Steuben,Kyoho, will require no spraying in Cal and can be trained to almost any shape. Asian pears are way more trouble free than apples. Pakistan mulberry works in many Cal z7 areas, available from Bay Laurel N. and Rolling River N.- don't get a mulberry sourced from Dave Wilson N. as they are grafted too high. Mulberries are no spray. Frost peach is more disease resistant than most so probably get by without spraying. Davewilson.com has excellent info on keeping trees low. Good luck, Kate.

I live in zone 10 also - and have two apples here. They aren't growing in the lawn, however. They are both "low-chill" varieties - one is Dorset Golden, which looks a lot like a Delicious apple in shape, but has a slightly gold/yellow color to it, and I find - much better tasting than the commercial Delicious. It is on it's second year. I fertilize with compost tea - occasionally - not often, and both trees are growing in native soil. I do have good drainage in that area. The other apple, is called "Anna" and is also "low-chill" and is in the 3rd year. It was slow to produce the first couple of years, but I had a good crop this year, and the apples were excellent. It was slow to come out of hibernation, but when it did, it was very healthy looking. I would give these "low-chill" varieties about 3 years to establish. I don't water too often - but mulch heavily in summer. You might like these low-chill types better. I have heard that another apple Ein Scheimer - is also good here - and quite tasty. My only fault with Anna - is that it mushes up in apple pie, but I cut the pieces big and that seems to help. They also bubble a lot when canning apple sauce - but other than that, I can find no other complaint. Bejay