5-1-1 CRF + Foliage Pro dosage
hairmetal4ever
9 years ago
Featured Answer
Sort by:Oldest
Comments (26)
edweather USDA 9a, HZ 9, Sunset 28
9 years agohairmetal4ever
9 years agoRelated Discussions
Tapla's 5-1-1 Container Mix in More Detail
Comments (450)@dleverette When making 5:1:1 mix, I break-up the compressed chunks of peat so they pass through a 1/2" screen. I toss any sticks and such on top of the raised beds where they break down with time. Here's a tip you'll find very helpful. For large batches of 5:1:1, pour the bark onto a tarp laid on a flat surface, then wet the bark a bit. Then, add the screened peat and spread it over the bark. Add your lime on top of the peat, then put down the perlite and wet that. The trick is to use just enough water to make the mix damp when it's thoroughly mixed. Both peat and pine bark are hydrophobic (water repellent) when allowed to dry below about 20% of their water holding ability. This makes a dry 5:1:1 mix extremely difficult to rewet if you don't moisten it when you make it. The moisture in the mix diffuses, moistening the bark/ peat and "breaking" its tendency to repel water. Within 15-30 minutes of making the mix you can pot plants and water them in thoroughly w/o the frustration associated with trying to rehydrate a dry soil. FWIW, I don't use coir. As many times as I've tried it and cone comparative experiments, I've always had problems or been dissatisfied with the results. You might be interested in a comparison between peat and coir I wrote several years back: Peat vs. Coir Sphagnum peat and coir have nearly identical water retention curves. They both retain about 90-95% of their volume in water at saturation and release it over approximately the same curve until they both lock water up so tightly it's unavailable for plant uptake at about 30-33% saturation. Coir actually has less loft than sphagnum peat, and therefore, less aeration. Because of this propensity, coir should be used in mixes at lower %s than peat. Because of the tendency to compact, in the greenhouse industry coir is primarily used in containers in sub-irrigation (bottom-watering) situations. Many sources produce coir that is high in soluble salts, so this can also be an issue. Using coir as the primary component of container media virtually eliminates lime or dolomitic lime as a possible Ca source because of coir's high pH (6+). Gypsum should be used as a Ca source, which eliminates coir's low S content. All coir products are very high in K, very low in Ca, and have a potentially high Mn content, which can interfere with the uptake of Fe. Several studies have also shown that the significant presence of phenolic allelochemicals in fresh coir can be very problematic for a high % of plants, causing poor growth and reduced yields. I haven't tested coir thoroughly, but I have done some testing of CHCs (coconut husk chips) with some loose controls in place. After very thoroughly leaching and rinsing the chips, I made a 5:1:1 soil of pine bark:peat:perlite (which I know to be very productive) and a 5:1:1 mix of CHCs:peat:perlite. I planted 6 cuttings of snapdragon and 6 cuttings of Coleus (each from the same plant to help reduce genetic influences) in containers (same size/shape) of the different soils. I added dolomitic lime to the bark soil and gypsum to the CHC soil. After the cuttings struck, I eliminated all but the three strongest in each of the 4 containers. I watered each container with a weak solution of MG 12-4-8 with STEM added at each watering, and watered on an 'as needed basis', not on a schedule. The only difference in the fertilizer regimen was the fact that I included a small amount of MgSO4 (Epsom salts) to provide MG (the dolomitic lime in the bark soil contained the MG, while the gypsum (CaSO4) in the CHC soil did not. This difference was necessary because or the high pH of CHCs and coir.) for the CHC soil. The results were startling. In both cases, the cuttings grown in the CHC's exhibited < 1/2 the biomass at summers end as the plants in the bark mix. I just find it very difficult for a solid case to be made (besides "It works for me") for the use of coir or CHC's. They're more expensive and more difficult to use effectively. The fact that some believe peat is in short supply (no where near true, btw) is easily offset by the effect of the carbon footprint of coir in its trek to the US from Sri Lanka or other exotic locales. That's the view from here. YMMV Coir Study: https://sites.google.com/site/plantandsoildigest/usu-crop-physiology-laboratory/coconut-coir-studies Al...See More? re: initial fertilization w/ 5:1:1 mix
Comments (4)1.25 cups in a 20 gal isn't excessive. Yes, mix it in well. No need to moisten first, but water well after you're all planted. If you ever forget like I do sometimes to mix in the initial CRF application, then just sprinkle a little bit on top of the 5-1-1 surface in the pot and mix it into the first inch or two. Then remember to apply more in a couple of months as the weather heats up. Light and more frequent always preferred in pots over heavy and infrequent fertilizing. Also, with 5-1-1, there isn't really a transplant hole and backfilling. That's why you confused me. You make a volcano in the pot, splay out the bare plant roots and lay radially on top of the volcano. Then you fill in carefully doing your best to get mix in amongst the roots. You'll understand once you get your first planting under your belt....See MoreNeed more water retention in 5:1:1 mix
Comments (13)In response to DaMonkey "what's best for the plant, not the grower" idea, I have learned that it is NOT best for all plants to require watering more than once a day. There is a level of moisture/nutrient retention that will give you optimal growth of the plant. If the mix dries out faster than that, you won't get better growth even if you water 3X a day. The gas exchange turnover is less beneficial than greater absorption of water/nutrients. To the OP, I've had a similar problem but with the gritty mix drying out far too fast for some of the plants I was trying to grow in my climate (roses, citrus, mandevilla). For these plants in MY climate, moisture retention is an advantage, not a disadvantage. I have a rose in a pot of "retentive" bagged potting mix with 30 big gorgeous blooms on it right now, while a more vigorous rose (when I bought it) in gritty mix is growing poorly and has only produced 3 or 4 blooms, when during spring flush it should be more than 30 (and was more than 30 when it came in its growers pot!). Don't hesitate to use a "retentive" mix if that's what your plants, climate, and watering habits would do best with. You might also consider setting up a drip irrigation system. I have one set up just for the pots on my relatively small deck, and I so love not having to water manually. There is good info on irrigationdirect.com on designing a system. Actually, I set mine up so I could go on vacation in hot July or August without my plants all dying (and no one, no matter how good a friend, wants to come water all those plants every day, let alone twice a day!). But I was surprised to get home from vacation and see my drip-irrigated plants doing better than when I watered them manually. I'm using RainDrip components, but my impression is that they are all pretty standard (1/2" mainline, 1/4" tubing, plugs, various style emitters, etc). I have not tried any of the fertilizer dispensers to add to the automated system. However, there are growers on gardenweb that have set up auto-fertilizer-dispenser with their drip systems, so you might want to search for info if you'd rather go that route. I plan to try Osmocote Plus (24-8-16 with complete nutrients) in conjunction with my drip system this summer, rather than manual fertigation, which is work I'd rather not do. My main problem so far is that I can't find Osmocote Plus in stores (just the regular NPK-only Osmocote)....See MoreNewb help needed for 5-1-1 and 1-1-1 Gritty
Comments (7)I have seen where the Pine Bark Fines is referred to as 'soil conditioner' as well as the Turface being referred to as 'soil conditioner'. What exactly is Turface, They are both "soil conditioners" Pine Bark fines are organic. Turface is calcined Montmorillonite clay. Check your area for John Deere Landscape suppliers. If you can't find that then check your Tractor supply for "Oil Dry" in 40# bags. It will need to have the fines removed with an 1/8th inch screen. I've also read that it was like kitty litter, isn't that the same as the grit? So confused! :S the kitty litter is a clay product. The chicken grit is often a crushed granite product. It is a volume and aeration additive (?) that does not soak up water like the clay or the bark. I plan on buying the Reptibark for my Gritty so I won't have to screen and not for sure what I will need to get for the 5-1-1 bark fines. For the 5-1-1 mix check out the pine bark soil conditioners. See if it is ground to a fairly small size and is 100% pine. I have seen some that have other items like ground forest products whick are of questionable background. Locally I have Lowes, Tractor Supply, and Atwoods. I called Tractor Supply and they carry the Manapro grit for $4.99 and Atwoods has a 5lb bag of grit for $2.87 (they didn't know what brand). Then do I need to get the Lime and Gypsum for both (which for which mix?) or can I get just one of the two to use on both mixes? If I understand it correctly the lime is added to the 5-1-1 mix at the rate of 1 tablespoon per gaollon of mix. Seems that the ph of the 1-1-1 mix warrants the use of gypsum in the mix and then epsom salts are added to the water to help free up Ca and Mg. I don't have to make very much so I really don't want to have to buy 50 lb bags of all this! lol Also, what exactly to do for both on the fertilizer that's listed? you can add a Controlled release fertilizer or it is recommended to water with a weak fertilizer solution. Tapla has written on this and is worth the read Thank you so much for the help and sorry for all the q's! Thanks Al for all the help you are giving everyone!...See Moregreenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
9 years agohairmetal4ever
9 years agoOhiofem 6a/5b Southwest Ohio
9 years agohairmetal4ever
9 years agogreenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
9 years agoseysonn
9 years agoJay Part Shade (Zone 10B, S21, Los Angeles)
9 years agogreenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
9 years agoJerryVentura Jordan
9 years agoOhiofem 6a/5b Southwest Ohio
9 years agoJerryVentura Jordan
9 years agoJay Part Shade (Zone 10B, S21, Los Angeles)
9 years agoJerryVentura Jordan
9 years agoJay Part Shade (Zone 10B, S21, Los Angeles)
9 years agogreenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
9 years agoJay Part Shade (Zone 10B, S21, Los Angeles)
9 years agogreenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
9 years agorooftopbklyn (zone 7a)
9 years agothe_yard_guy
9 years agohairmetal4ever
9 years agogreenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
9 years agothe_yard_guy
9 years agoynot
9 years ago
Related Stories
DIY PROJECTSArrange a Gift Floral Bouquet Like a Pro
For a fall gift bouquet that looks expensive but is (almost) dirt cheap, just follow this step-by-step guide
Full StoryFALL AND THANKSGIVING5 Container Gardens for Fall, the Holidays and Beyond
Make planting easy with a single container, year-round plants and a sprinkling of simple seasonal accents
Full StoryLANDSCAPE DESIGN5 Essential Considerations for a Landscape Design Project
Get your winter garden fix by planning an entirely new landscape or just an update for a single garden stretch
Full StoryFARM YOUR YARDHow to Grow Vegetables in Containers
Get glorious vegetables and fruits on your patio with a pro’s guidance — including his personal recipe for potting mix
Full StoryFALL GARDENINGHouzz Call: Show Us Your Autumn Views
Share your pictures of fall foliage and decor in the Comments. Your photos may be featured in an upcoming story!
Full StoryLANDSCAPE DESIGN7 Great Trees for Summer Shade and Fall Color
These landscape-pro faves straddle the seasons beautifully. Could one enhance your own yard?
Full StoryGARDENING GUIDESGreat Design Plant: Grow Blueberries for Their Fruit and More
Eastern gardeners should consider growing blueberry plants for their delicious fruits, bee-friendly spring blooms and brilliant fall foliage
Full StoryLANDSCAPE DESIGNHow to Hire a Landscape Architect
Find the best fit for your landscaping project with this guide to evaluating and selecting a pro
Full StoryLANDSCAPE DESIGNSmall Garden? You Can Still Do Bamboo
Forget luck. Having bamboo that thrives on a wee plot just takes planning, picking the right variety, and keeping runners in check
Full StoryLANDSCAPE DESIGNBoxwood Alternatives Bring the Chelsea Flower Show to You
Don’t let box blight limit your plans to borrow garden design ideas from the renowned British event
Full Story
Ohiofem 6a/5b Southwest Ohio