The most important thing I can tell is NOT dig/till your soil.. Don't lesson to allthe hype about tilling and "oh I been digging for years", the only reasons farmers till is because they lost fertility in there land from tilling and synthetic fertilizer, leaving bare soil,etc... People just jumped on the ban wagon and dig their garden every year, tradition is literalry ruining the land! I know people is going to give me hell but it's true.. Nature has the largest, most fertile garden, she never digs, nor does she do half the things us "farmers" do... I'm going to put a link on the botten of the page, it is a video about a man who doesn't water his garden, doesn't fertilize, nor spray any pesticides and you should see his garden! It is a movie... You will thank me later..

I wouldn't worry to much about the "ultimate mix"... But I would make raised beds and fill it with high quality compost or whatever weed free soil you has available... Don't be to concerned about what you get in, just make sure it's safe for your garden, that'll get you off a to a good start.. Then the rest of the years you should focus on building your own soil - watch the video in the link near the bottom...

Another thing is maximizes your growing area.. Let's say you beds are 15x20... I would not do rows because half your garden space is going to be paths.. I would do rectangles with beds 4-5. ft width and just 1-2 foot walk paths..

I tend to do intensive square foot gardening... I like to pack my plants in, I don't like seeing to much bare soil.. In nature - do you ever see bare soil? Do you see every tree spaced 20 foot centers?..

Best of luck
Joe

The best advice I could give you is to watch this video:

Here is a link that might be useful: True gardening - watch this video, it will help you tremendously

Here's a link to companion plants. Doesn't matter what soil you have if you plant certain varieties next to eat other that prevent each other from growing. Soil should drain well but have enough organic matter to breath and hold on to some moisture.

Here is a link that might be useful: List of companion plants

Kevin, just read many of these threads (maybe not this one!)
There are so many threads either on the vege board, FAQs, raisded beds, container, pottager and other gardens.
You might also be interested in the composting board which talks about amending your soil!
You WILL be hooked very soon! Nancy

Welcome! Don't mind the new guy, he's under the misapprehension that a garden is a purely natural place. He's also under the misapprehension that he's the only one worth listening to. ;) There are good reasons to till and good reasons not to. There are many different ways to garden, and you will find people who will insist if you don't do exactly what they do you will be DOOMED! Here, have a grain of salt to go with that. You don't have to garden on anyone else's agenda. There is an awful lot to learn, but doing it hands on is great. You'll get something out of your garden this year, for sure.

Based on the size, the best use of your space would likely be to make quadrants out of it, as mentioned. Of the crops you mention, I find beans the easiest by far. Tomatoes are pretty good as long as they get enough sun, though they are one that people will have a lot of opinions about. Those opinions often have to do with getting the most out of the plants, which might be more of a concern after you've tried your hand at growing some. Carrots can be tricky, and lettuce is pretty easy once you get some sprouted. Zuchini tends to have a couple of problems, but generally will produce too. A nice lineup.

I don't do raised bed gardening, so can't comment on the fill soil. But if you go to the top of the page there is a helpful search box, enter terms like raised bed soil, or fill raised beds, raised bed construction or such, and you will find endless hours worth of reading. Cheers!

Sunnibel:

Dont mind the new guy? What is that a backslap or what? I'm trying to help this person out. He asked for advice I'm giving him the best advice I possibly could... Of course we all have opinions..

Only one worth listening to? Come on, I'm giving him mine and many others experience.. He asked for advice not an argument...

Kevin: yes it is important to learn by experience, its your garden after all... All I'm saying is before you till all your land up, think twice about it... if I was you, I wouldn't know what to believe - that's why you should experiment.. Take a few ideas that you like... Do on bed this way, another bed another way, and leaves one bed that all you do is add compost and mulch to... That way you could see what you like best..

Please understand - it seems like there's a misconception like brainwashing you here, i wouldn't spend my time trying to tell you bullcrap.. I am always trying to help people...

Best of luck,
Joe

"any good online planning things to use ?"

I'm new to gardening and have been trying various planning tools. So far the most effective and easiest one to use I've found is smartgardener. I've used everything from pen and paper to a 3d modeling program (called sketchup). Sketchup gave me the most freedom since the only limitations is my technical skill an d proficiency in using it.. But I highly doubt most could master it's use.

Here is a link that might be useful: This will help you plan it out.

I've had gardens for several years.. but now that I can fill it.. I figured I would ask if anyone had some great mix I could create.. I used to till my garden every year.. more for getting out the rocks.. but I had heard and read that when you dig up the soil your bring up weed seeds, ruin the water capillaries in the soil and expose nutrients to be blown away in the wind.. so I don't plan on tilling this one unless really needed..

as for placement I was just trying to see if people put taller things all next to each other.. like beans and tomatoes.. or maybe to short and tall.. lettuce and tomatoes ... I'll check out the forums for the mix.. thanks everyone..

You read right my friend!

As far as plant placement, the most important thing personally is to put the taller things like tomatoes,peppers,etc as far north on your garden as possible so they dont shade your smaller plants.. I tend to get my plants in cluster instead of mix and match.. That is because I have a small garden and There is plenty of diversity so disease, insects don't ruin your whole crop... If I had a larger garden, I would differently mix and match my planting
to make sure there's diversity... Huge farmers with acres frequently spray tons chemicals to get the insect, and disease at bay because they normally have acres of the same crop(corn,soy,canola,etc), once insects find a crop they like, they are going to have at it... That is only I'd you have a completely unnatural garden, which we don't.. For us small timers we don't have to be concerned to much.. Although its wise to research companion planting and plant plants that deter Deer, insects,etc(garlic,marigold).. Plant placement for us in mainly to optimize light and convenience..

As for a great mix of soil - if you want some great soil, go to the woods an dig some topsoil.. Or pay to have some quality topsoil/compost delivered... I have the woodsright behind me so I will occasionally dig some topsoil to inoculate my beds with microorganisms as well as minerals.. I personally would go with whatever is cheap.. My city has free leaf humus, so you might want to look around for something like that...

Best of luck,
Joe

Actually Joe I think it was pretty up front. You come in here and say "listen to me, I know the only super bestest way to do things, don't listen to anyone else who tells you different". You assume that no one else on here has any good advice to give if it doesn't fit your holier-than-thou ultra-organic agenda, and dismiss everyone else by attacking them before they've even said anything. You pretend to care that you're rubbing people the wrong way but continue to say things the exact same way each time. If you want to be polite, be polite. If you want to push an agenda on an open forum, go ahead but expect some pushing back.

You are not expressing any ideas here that have not been expressed before by other, more tactful people. No till has been discussed. Back-to-eden has been discussed. Pros and cons of various chemicals continue to be discussed. Methods of organic control are traded and evaluated on a regular basis. I grow things in an organic and sustainable manner, but I wouldn't dream of putting down all the wonderful, experienced people here who know so much more about growing than I do simply because they use chemicals or a rototiller. And saying that anyone else's ideas are "an arguement" not "advice" makes it obvious that you do think you are the only one worth listening to. This observation comes from reading the many, many posts you have suddenly flooded this site with.

Kevin, pretty much all the concerns raised about tilling can be addressed with good mulching, provided you aren't tilling several times a year- nutrients are kept in place and weeds are smothered, and if you are keeping you bed free of weeds, the only capillaries made by roots that will be there are the ones that come from your plants, same either way. The concerns often aren't the same with a back yard garden as with large-scale agriculture anyhow. Sorry I misunderstood your question for being that of a newcomer, new bed from scratch sounded like a new person! Look for posts by jonhughes, he raises some serious amounts of produce in raised beds only, and he may have said what he fills them with. Cheers!

There's a lot of conflicting and confusing about companion planting out there; when I was first putting together a plan I drove myself nuts trying to accommodate and incorporate everything, and then found out there's not a lot of scientific information supporting most of these practices anyway. It IS true that you should plant basil between/around your tomatoes--they yield about 20% more that way, though no one knows exactly why.

The only thing I definitely would avoid doing is interplanting legumes (peas, beans) with fruit and root veggies. Legumes 'fix' (leach) nitrogen into the soil, and too much nitrogen can have negative effects on those plants. Instead, plant them with greens and lettuces, which feed on nitrogen. Some other plants, like fennel, are considered alleopathic and should be a little distance away from everything else because they can inhibit other plants' growth.

Assuming you're in the northern hemisphere, put your tallest plants on the north edge and as you move south get shorter. This will ensure that your plants get the most sunlight possible.

Traditional planting instructions (what you will see on the seed package) will advise you to grow vining crops in hills, with lots of distance between hills (winter squash, cucumbers, etc). This is not a very efficient use of space, especially if you only have a 16'x20' area. Instead, find some cattle paneling or create a trellis with stakes and netting. This will allow you to guide the plants to grow vertically, saving space and making harvesting much easier. They should be relatively tall (at least 4') so they would do well on the back row with the tomatoes. You could grow your tomatoes the same way, if they are indeterminate - they are vines and will grow fine up netting instead of in cages.

Finally, you could use a space-saving method like square-foot gardening. You don't need to spend the money to build raised beds; simply mark off a 4'x whatever area and fill it with compost/topsoil so that it is a few inches off the ground. You may also wish to add coir or peat for roughage and water retention. Natural erosion will occur - you will have to shore up the sides sometimes, and add extra compost periodically (you would have to do this anyway, eventually). You may want to save up for beds in the future. Plan for 2-3 feet between beds in each direction.

Make sure that the dimensions of the area are no more than 4' one way, so that you NEVER step on the bed and compress the soil. You will be able to reach in from the sides and harvest easily at this distance. The dimensions the other way can be any size - 4', 8', 10', etc. If your bed is longer than it is wide (say 4'x8') make sure the 8' goes east-west for the most sunlight. This method of gardening (as long as you never step on the soil in the beds--super important!) will allow you to plant many crops much more closely together. I've included a link that describes how to space plants under the SFG method.

Here is a link that might be useful: My Square Foot Garden: Plant Spacing

Since the OP didn't ask anything about tilling it is irrelevant to this discussion and nothing is to be gained by hijacking it onto the topic of till or no till. That is a whole other discussion.

16x20 ish offers you several different options for layout it can be planted in E-W rows, you can do what is called wide-row gardening by making it into 3 long 4' wide raised mounds with 2 narrow pathways in between, you can do old-fashion row planting although that tends to waste space with having multiple paths, or you can divide it into sections and try Sq. Foot gardening. Or you can do a combo of any of the above.

As to the fill - what is your native soil like? Do you plan to incorporate it into the haul-in stuff? If you have clay soil it can benefit mixing some of it in with the fill for better water retention. If it is sandy then you might want to find some clay to haul in.

Do you plan to contain it in some way with sides or just spread it out on top of an existing area? Do you compost or have access to lots of good compost? Do you have access to any aged, well-composted manures?

What is your sun exposure going to be like? Some of the area more shaded than others? that would determine crop placements.

Do you want to garden mostly organic or is incorporating some synthetic nutrients in it ok?

Is vertical gardening an option? ie: pole beans and cukes up a trellis so they have a small footprint and open up more ground space.

More details please and as nancy and sunnibel mention browsing through this forum and the Soil forum will find many discussions on fill mixes that will help.

Dave

Oh boy... I'm not into argueing... I sure brush people the wrong way huh? I thought I gave Kevin some of the best advice yet..

Good luck Kevin,
Joe

I've created a battle royal.. everyone is entitled to their opinion.. and I read them all.. and now I have lots of good ideas..

I have mostly clay soil.. so the topsoil I would bring in would be the same way.. so my thought is to do like 2 part top, 1 part sand 1 part mushroom soil..

I have another post on the forums about my hi-tech garden.. its actually a 2' high raised bed on a slope.. so one side is 6" up and the down slope is 2' above grade and walled in and has a pond liner in it with a drain. So I can totally control the water going in by pumps if I need it.. and I can drain out quick if needed when we have too much rain. The issue I always had with my gardens was watering.. either not enough in the hot summer.. or sometimes just drenching rains and then rot.. With this system I can totally control that..

So no I just need to get my dirt mix.. and then decide on what I exactly want to plant.. and now I know to plant my tall plants on the North end.. see learning more everyday..

Sounds like you got a nice setup Kevin! That soil mixture should work great! You're going to have bountiful harvests!

Good luck,
Joe

Back to the original question, what to bring in, it depends a bit on the soil already there. What kind of soil is it? I think 'black dirt' and bagged composts are cr*p. Most towns have compost facilities and farms with manure. If the soil is heavy clay bring in a lot of loose composts with leaves; if it is sandy go more for manures. A season of waiting to garden and doing layering compost on the garden area is wonderfully easy. Start with cardboard then grass clippings and kitchen scraps, top with leaves in fall and some manure loads and let it all decompose. If you don't want to wait around, bring in composts and manures and place in wide strips (beds) with paths in between so it looks like stripes. No reason to augment the paths when you walk and not grow there. Grow in 3ish foot wide swaths.

Kevin, do some more research on adding sand to clay soil before you make your final decision. Although it seems logical to do so, credible sources say that this is actually a bad idea. I won't go into the details (see the link below for one example; a Google search will get your more), but basically, you can end up turning your soil into a virtual brick instead of loosening it, the opposite of what you want.

More helpful is to add lots and lots of compost and other organic matter. Keep adding each year and your soil will improve. Good luck!

Here is a link that might be useful: The Myth of Soil Amendments

Kathy has good advice.. They say not to add sand to clay unless you have something along the lines of 50-70% sand by volume.. But that is tilling sand into clay soil, i dont see the problem with adding it to a raised bed.

so then maybe 1 part top, 1 part mushroom or compose and 1 part sand would be better...

I read that article it makes perfect sense.. layering will be hard at this point.. since they will just mix at the point of origin and then deliver already mixed up..