I advise you to watch this video in the link prior to planning your gardening.. Also, if you look at the other recent post down the page there are multiple post with a similar question..

Good Luck,
Joe

Here is a link that might be useful: Getting Started

Check into the FAQs at the top of the vege page, check into the soil and compost boards, read read read these boards.
You might want to check into your landfill for compost/soil. Ours happens to be certified organic, but you'll want to check on that. We get ours for about $15 for a half yard (small PU truck load), about 1/2 the price of a landscape place.
Check into freecycle or craigslist for free manure (sometimes composted, sometimes only partially) When I start a new bed, I usually loosen as much as I can my clay soil with a fork, lay down manure,water it in then gopher wire, atach that to the raised beds, then add compost and soil.
Too bad you didn't do more reading before, cause usually it's best to go with beds 3-4ft wide at best in order to be able to reach in easily. I made the same mistake my first year, then made a 1' path to split an 8' bed. Better now.
Any way you procede, have fun , don't stress and Happy gardening! Nancy

Definite yes on the "partially raised beds". That's exactly what we did when we started our main garden and it's worked very well. (We also have clay soil.) You'll want to research how to compost and get a pile (eventually two or three piles) started. Until you have your own compost, you can buy bagged compost (of various types) at the big box stores and mix those in to your beds. Alternatively, call around to some nurseries in your area and see if they offer any soils or amendments in bulk. You may be able to get a truckload delivered right to your driveway or yard for less than the cost of bags, but it will depend on what quantities you're after.

I agree that you may find 5' beds a bit too wide, but it's a "live and learn" thing -- when we were new to gardening, my husband and I also built our boxes too big, and we've since limited our beds to 4' wide. But you know what? Those "too wide" beds produced wonderfully for us and we used them until the wood needed to be replaced, at which point we just rebuilt a little smaller.

Beyond that, my advice is to grow what you like to eat and not to get too ambitious your first year so you don't get overwhelmed. :) Also, don't expect to hit a home run your first time out -- you'll have some successes, some failures, and some "meh's". And then you'll build on that knowledge, experiment in future years, and soon friends will be coming to you for advice. :)

One of the first steps is to contact your local county AG extension office and arrange to have a soil test done. The results of that test will tell you what all, if anything, needs to be added to your soil in the way of nutrients, organic matter, and to fix the soil pH if necessary.

The soil is the most important aspect of gardening and unfortunately you can't just look at it and see if it will be good gardening soil.

Then explore local options for compost, composted manure, and other forms of organic matter to add to the existing soil. Then turn/till it all in.

I wouldn't worry about using the boxes/beds this year.

Dave

Thanks! We have pathways around all sides of each of the 5x5 beds, will that help?

We rototilled the section earlier today 3 times over and loosened the soil up. We mixed in some organic composted manure and organic nitrates.

The boxes are built and we plan to put them out and then we will be buying the soil and everything that we need. We intend to use 6-7 cubic feet of soil for each box, 3 cubic feet of compost for each box, and 1 cubic foot of peat moss. We're hoping that we've conditioned the soil underneath well enough so that the veggies will still do well once they are 6-12" deep.

My biggest question right now is- what kind of soil do i need and what kind of compost do i need? My local store only carries 1 type of moss that is organic so i know that I will be using that.

However there is "topsoil" "humus" "composted manure" and "soil conditioner". What do i use?
It seems topsoil would obviously be the best option for the soil portion but then, i have no idea what soil conditioner or humus are? Also, can composted manure be used for the compost portion or not?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Composted manure will add lots of good stuff to your soil. My first year, I just added Kellogg's Amend to my dirt. After that, I got more picky and made Mel's mix according to Square Foot Garden instructions - equal parts of peat, vermiculite and compost. An important things to remember is not to step on your soil and compact it. With at least 8 hours of sun each day and sufficient water, you should have success.

After you have your garden going for a while, you may want to make your own compost. Check with your local Master Gardeners. They may know of good sources of soil amendments in your area. Good luck!

Here is a link that might be useful: My raised bed garden

Yes, you can use composted manure for the "compost" part. However, if you live in an urban area, check first your city recycling programs for either free or reduced-price compost. Go with as much free compost as you can obtain from your city works department (if you can get it). ;-)

Re: "topsoil" or "humus": If you're using compost, then I'd just add plain old topsoil IMO. In the autumn, you can make your own humus (leaf mold) by mixing crushed leaves into the beds.

First, when you say boxes, do you mean they have wooden bottoms? Just checking to make sure they don't. 5x5 is just a little too wide. Not impossible but when you're weeding and working in the garden, you'll figure it out. When I started garden beds at our current home, I went with the lasagna method. We had tried removing sod but it is very deep (old pasture). It was much easier to lay down wet newspapers and build a bed on top of existing ground. Perfect raised beds with edgings would look nice but are more money and work than I wanted to invest.

I second the recommendation to use freecycle or craigslist to find free manure. We found a horse owner who loads our utility trailer with as much composted horse manure as it will hold. We pay him $15 for his tractor time. It's a bargain. Usually you have to load yourself but with determination and effort, you could even load 5 gallon buckets in the trunk of your car. We got as much grass clippings as we wanted from a relative who just piled his grass clippings in a corner of his yard. I've also collected leaves because we don't have many.

I have a tremendous number of earthworms now. I've always figured they're a good sign. The first bed that I spent time building the year before I started the garden was a luxurious 24" or more tall. It settled down a lot over the winter. Several years later, it's now level with the surrounding lawn. It's loose. I never have to till. I would rather see you invest in a good hand weeder (cobra head type) than so much purchased soil. My other favorite tools are a spading shovel and a spading fork.

I'm afraid you might be concentrating on step one and not thinking about the rest of it. I also recommend fish emulsion liquid fertilizer for all your transplants and watering until tomatoes and pepper plants get big.

Also take a look at your planting timetable. I suspect in zone 7 you should be getting your spinach in the ground or putting the seed aside for a fall crop. I read that spinach is day length sensitive (not just heat) so it needs to be seeded as soon as the ground is workable. You might want to get bed #1 ready to go ASAP and work on the others as you have time since you probably have a few more weeks before planting frost sensitive plants/transplants.

I like the Square Foot Garden book (first one you can probably find in a used book store) for plant spacing recommendations. Originally I used his soil recipe but I keep changing. Check with your County Extension about any classes they might offer. It's also fun to meet other gardeners. I do worm composting in the cellar because I'm too lazy to take all our kitchen scraps to the outdoor bin in winter. I put a large scoop of worm compost in the bottom of each planting hole for tomatoes and peppers.

Also check to see if there are any NOFA meetings near you or possibly a semi-annual conference. We are able to buy fertilzers etc at reduced prices thru NOFA bulk orders. Probably too late for you this year but you'll need more next year.

We have discussed buying onions, spinach, etc and any other things that were meant to have been planted already at a local gardening store and transplanting them.
For the rest we were going to use Baker Creek Seeds - has anyone had any experience with them?

How can I come by worm compost?
I have thought to check the local dump to see if they keep compost but am a little worried about how organic/meat/fats-free it will be, the same concern is raised when buying off of craigslist but if people have generally had good experience with it, maybe its the way to go?

Right now I am looking at a brand carried by my local store that does not have a website, some of its products are labeled organic and some are not: the soil is not. What does it mean for a soil to be not organic?

"How can I come by worm compost?"

ALL organic material is broken down mostly by worms (sometimes fungi) and becomes compost. Hence all compost can or should be called worm compost. Even if there was a pork bone in the mix, worms transform it into humus. Any real concern regarding ANY material composted offsite (and that includes store-bought) would probably be heavy metals. Municipal compost comes mostly from leaves and park debris. I wouldn't be at all surprised if some commercial compost is Muni compost bagged under contract. And if it isn't, who and what are the companies' sources for their organic material?

I remember about ten years ago when I used to live in Alberta -- a certain energy company was given government funding to compost...wait for it....Edmonton's waste treatment debris. The very idea of composting sewer residuals filled with chemicals and heavy metals makes you question who's interests were at the forefront. For the intent of this plan was for the energy company to sell the compost for profit (yes, commercial compost) back to the tax payers who funded the project in the first place. I think much of the compost ended up at Swan Hill's hazardous waste disposal plant.

I would love to see an in-lab comparison of today's commercially-made compost vs. Muni compost, regarding inorganic materials, contaminates, etc. For the ultimate point is that neither private nor public composting (apart from ourselves) can claim top "organic dog" status.

So, if you are concerned about soil contaminates in any case, you are best to make your own leaf compost.

This post was edited by uncle_t on Sat, Mar 23, 13 at 19:38

Our local home improvement stores sell bags of "composted manure/humus" (mixed together) and "mushroom compost" (or mushroom soil). Either/both of those can be mixed into your existing top soil to amend and condition it. I honestly don't know what "soil conditioner" would be; I don't think I've ever seen a bag with that label.

Another one of our stores (more agriculture focused) sells bags of "worm castings" inside where the gardening supplies are. (As opposed to outside where the compost is sold.) It's not too expensive, so I'll usually buy a bag in the spring to mix in with new compost, especially for our SFG. (Our main non-SFG garden beds have tons of worms, as do our compost piles, so I figure we get lots of natural worm castings that way.)

I haven't taken advantage of free mulch, etc., offered by our municipal yard waste center, mainly because I figure most of what people drop off at the site has been treated with chemicals, whether by the home owners or professional lawn care companies. We do have our own compost piles, however, which greatly cuts down on the number of bags of compost we need to buy each year.

We also shred our leaves each fall and either mix them into the compost piles or use them as a thick winter mulch on the empty garden beds. By the time the weather warms up in the spring, the worms are going to town on the bottom layer of the leaves turning it into leaf mold/humus. We then either mix it into the soil or add more mulch on top of it. That's for the future for you, but it gives you an idea of what you can be working toward as the summer progresses.

This post was edited by kathyb912_IN on Sat, Mar 23, 13 at 19:49

Where have you been pricing soil and compost and such? If you've been looking at soil by the bag at, say, the local hardware store, I'd suggest asking around for a trustworthy source that can deliver it by the partial truckload. (What do I mean by "trustworthy"? That's a good question, and I don't know because I haven't done this, just read about it. I'd just be worried about possible toxins or weeds. if you know some dedicated gardeners, maybe they'll know of a source or at least what questions to ask.)

Random suggestions that I would have given myself when I started gardening:

- The first year (and possibly subsequent years), buy tomato and pepper seedlings instead of trying to start them from seed. But no need to buy the big plants; the young ones in the little sixpacks are fine as long as they're not rootbound.

- On the other hand, beans are, IMO, best started in the ground.

- For the onions, look up day length and make sure that you get the right cultivars, assuming that you're going for bulbs rather than scallions.

- Also, shallots and potato onions can be an easier way to grow onions. You usually buy them in the fall, so they're not an option for this year, but you could think about putting some in this fall.

- However worried you are about weeds, worry more. :) OK, I don't mean _worry_, but if you have a decision to make where one choice makes it easier to deal with weeds, and another choice makes it harder, go with easier. For example, hexagonal plant spacing is more space-efficient, but a checkerboard or parallel lines makes it easier to deal with weeds because you can drag a hoe or other weeding tool more easily between the plants.

- I made a rule for myself that no matter what else I want to do, I have to finish my weeding first - I was never ever allowed to decide that the weeding can wait a few more days. That would have worked beautifully last year if my garden hadn't been too big; your garden sounds like it's a size where it would work.

- I'd suggest making staggered plantings of beans; if you plant a bunch at once you can end up with too many at once.

- The berries and lavender and many other herbs are perennial; the basil and everything else that you mention are annuals. You may want to group all your perennials together. That way, you can easily keep amending all the other beds between crops.

- Square Foot Gardening is, IMO, the best book for starting gardening, even if you won't actually be doing the squares. I've used the analogy that most cookbooks will tell you "finely chop an onion" and a much smaller number will tell you _exactly_ how to cut the ends off, how much of the skin to peel off, how to chop... Square Foot Gardening is the one that tells you those specifics.

This post was edited by chickenfreak on Sun, Mar 24, 13 at 0:17

chickenfreak - Thank you, this is super, super helpful advice! I haden't even thought about the annuals vs. perennials about herbs and I hadn't considered that I might end up having too many of anything, haha. What have you found to be the best ways to prevent/get rid of weeds organically? My husband bought a weed claw grabber thingy but something more preventative might be nice too.
I'll definitely check out that square foot gardening book.

I am worried that I do not need enough soil (only about 1.3 cu yards) to make it worth having the delivery but the only place i've found is about 3 times more expensive than the bagged soil at the hardware store when compared at 1 cu foot. I am also in a location that would be difficult to get a delivery at I think (my garden will be in my back yard in a neighborhood cul de sac.)

I do not know if I should trust the hardware store brand though. I am looking at "Evergreen" brand top soil and manure.
A woman that I work with used to own a gardening store, she recommends the brand and says that it was her favorite when she was selling. She thinks its organic although I cannot find a place on the bag that says that which worries me.
Ideas?

You have alot of excellent advice here. I would simply add that you will do yourself a big favor to read at least one good book that covers all the basics of gardening. Square Foot Gardening was mentioned, and it is very good. I would also highly recommend Growing Vegetables & Herbs by Taunton Press.

I don't see that anyone has recommended mulch. Mulch is the easy answer to weed control. I use pinestraw, but you can use chopped leaves, grass clippings, even newspaper or cardboard too (and other things). Let your soil get warm and then apply a thick layer over the entire bed up to about 3 inches from the base of each plant. Your weed problems will be nominal for the season.

With regard to soil amendments. Soil Conditioner is just finely chipped pine bark. It is tilled into clay soil and helps to loosen and texturize it. It's very effective, but doesn't add a whole lot of nourishment to the soil. I am personally very fond of Composted Manure and Spaghnum Peat Moss. But as digdirt said, you really should have your soil tested. It will save you from adding stuff you don't need. My soil is very high in phosporous and potassium, so I only add nitrogen in the form of Blood Meal or manures. Will your soil be like this? You'll only know if you have it tested. This can be done through your local County Agricultural Extension office. It is only $5 here.

You are off to a good start. We wish you great luck!

> What have you found to be the best ways to prevent/get rid of
> weeds organically? My husband bought a weed claw grabber thingy but
> something more preventative might be nice too.

The claw grabber thingy would be for big weeds that have escaped notice until they're hard to pull. I would also recommend getting a tool designed to cut tiny weed seedlings off when they sprout - the idea is that you cut the weeds off and barely disturb the soil. Possibilities include:

- A "hula hoe"
- A collinear hoe
- A "wire weeder" like the one they have at Johnny's. This is a short-handled tool and might work better for your raised beds than the above two long-handled tools. You have to crouch down, but you get better precision.

A plain old classic "hoe" is not all that good for this job - it's better for chopping out bigger weeds and various soil-arranging tasks.

If I were assigned to manage your garden, I would use the wire weeder to weed around the plants, and hand-pluck weeds that are dangerously close to the plant stems. This is another reason for avoiding the hexagonal spacing - with hexagonally spaced plants, it's harder to weed with a tool without accidentally cutting off the plants.

Weeding-with-a-tool is also a reason for _spaced_ plants rather than scattering seed. For example, if you're willing to kneel down and hand-pluck a lot of weeds, scattering lettuce seed works just fine. If you're going to lose patience with that, as I would (and if you're not quite sure you can distinguish between lettuce and weed seedlings), then you're better off sprinkling your seed in little rows or, most formally, growing seedlings elsewhere or buying seedlings and then placing each lettuce plant in a specific place.

To clarify, I'm not suggesting old-style "row farming" where you might have one row of lettuce and two feet of path that you walk in. (Not that that's necessarily wrong if you have the space - it has non-obvious advantages - but that's not your garden.) I'm just talking about simplifying the spaces between plants so that they're easier to weed.

And you might want to increase the spacing just a little this first year, again to make the weeding easier. This past year, in fact, I grew my beans about six inches apart in the "row", and exactly eighteen inches apart between the "rows", though that was all in a bed and I never ever stepped between the rows. It was much easier to weed between the "rows" when the plants were young, and the plants ended up growing quite large, I think reflecting the larger underground space available to them. Easier work and, I think, not significantly fewer beans. Now, I had all the space I could possibly work, so I'm not really recommending that you use a space as big as eighteen inches, but maybe just a little extra space.

Mulch is dandy, though for some reason it doesn't control weeds well for me - it makes the soil moist and soft and happy, and the weeds as well as the plants love that. So many people swear by mulch for weed control that I'm confident that I'm doing something wrong, but I (1) don't know what that is and (2) have too large a garden last year and this year to be able to thickly mulch it all. So I'm controlling weeds other ways.

This year I'm also trying out biodegradable landscape paper; I don't know yet if I recommend it. The only thing that I know is that it has to be very firmly secured or you'll come back the next day to find it blown to the other end of the garden. :) Maybe biodegradable landscape paper _under_ mulch will be the magic.

> I do not know if I should trust the hardware store brand though. I am
> looking at "Evergreen" brand top soil and manure.

My apologies for asking, but when comparing prices, you are accounting for a cubic yard being twenty-seven cubic feet, not nine cubic feet, right? I just want to make sure; when doing the math fast in the past I did once forget to add that third dimension.

In any case, this is where I'm not a great deal of help. I don't use raised beds, so most of my soil is just the ground. :) For amending, I most often use Gardner & Bloome products. Their bags say "Organic", but I don't see "certified organic", so does that really mean organic in an organic gardening sense, or just in a dictionary word sense? I don't know. :) Anyway, I use the Farmyard Blend and the Soil Building Compost. But now that we have a bigger garden, I think that I also need to find a trustworthy by-the-partial-truckload source.

I have more than once seen a big blob of soil dumped onto a tarp in front of a neighbor's home, so I think that it's not all that unusual to have it delivered that way and then frantically wheelbarrow it back to your garden. But that assumes that you've found the trustworthy source in the first place.