Don't laugh, I have a lot of edging cut from old tires. It is incredibly tough, lasts forever, easy to cut with a jig saw, and you can get about 16' from one tire.

Check over at the Garden Junk forum. They can inform you on ways to recycle that are just astonishing, and not junky at all!

Janie

Janie - thanks for the suggestion. I wasn't aware of the Garden Junk Forum - what fun. I'm intrigued by your use of tires. How do you cut & use them? - Karen

Scrap marble and granite countertop, scavenged from the counter shop's back alley... depending on shape; some is better for pavers, but I've used longer pieces for low retaining walls as well.

Grind a blade for your jig saw smooth on both sides- completely grind the teeth off.

Then stick a good strong knife or screwdriver into the tire to make a starting point.

You can sketch your cutting lines with chalk. Just cut it to desired width. Cut them straight. Do not cut in a spiral.

One thing to be aware of is that some tires are full of steel 'belts', and are very difficult to cut. Those little spare tires that come with cars are easy to cut. Most tires are pretty easy to cut, but you gotta watch some of those truck tires. LOL

Great idea about the scrap granite and marble.

Good luck

Janie

I doubt you would ever try it, but the head chef of The Benson Hotel in Portland, used to bring home the fat or grease from the kitchens, and paint it in a small trough edge around his lawn. He painted the dry dirt.

It built-up into a thick layer that you could knock on. And weeds did not penetrate it.

One of the more ususual things I've seen.

What stopped the rats, mice, birds, etc. from eating the grease?

I'm not sure.

But it turned dark with age, almost black.

They did it for years. He doesn't have the home anymore, his wife passed away, and he lives on a big boat near downtown Portland, not far from the Hotel.

Back to the original posting...

The very premise of this question leaves me somewhat uneasy. It has nothing to do with age and/or value of materials used. It has everything to do with how we define "landscape design". This is clearly an example of decoration; not design.

I also take exception to the underlying message that "more is better". While these types of materials can sometimes selectively be used to great effect, they are easily overdone. Too much "unique" and you have suddenly fallen into confusing chaos. One guiding question should not be overlooked: Does inclusion of these materials improve the use of the space or just fulfill an unabated obsession to collect more stuff?

IronBelly

Hey Iron Belly - my first reaction to your post was "get off your high horse!" But, I'll assume you didn't mean to be condescending by assuming that I want to junk up my yard. I am looking for creative - not junky, cutesy, country, rustic, or craftsy - ideas to do something other than the standard, boring suburban lawn. My favorite magazine is "House and Garden" and a lot of my decorating inspiration comes from their pages.

I like to think outside the box and find new ways of using items. For instance, I'm talking with glass block companies about buying their chipped blocks at a huge discount. I want to use them as edging around beds (chipped sides down, of course.) Attractive, tasteful, and unique.

I am definitely working on the design of my yard - beautiful flower beds, flowering shrubs, and ground cover (eliminating all the grass.) And to counterpoint the traditional birdbath and wrought iron bench, I plan to make a huge (4 foot) vitriolite mosaic gazing ball. Get the picture?

I welcome any ideas and suggestions you might offer. - Karen

In France, gardens are sometimes edged with upended wine bottles.

My first reaction to IronBelly's post was "I agree completely!"

It is very difficult to explain where the line is on some of this stuff.

For example, a client likes "stuff". It is hard to tell her than Snow White and the dwarfs would be better stored in the gardeners shed than placed next to the paintings hung on the wood fence, and the fake pond created from mirrors, pebbles, and flat stones. The paintings are nice, Snow White and the pond are a pain, junky beyond description, IMHO.

I am not making fun of what she likes, nor saying she shouldn't have what she wants, but it makes my job much more difficult.

Nice idea about the glass blocks. I am not so sure about a 4' gazing ball, although it could be spectacular.

Janie

Unfortunately Karen, "junking up" one's yard is also easily accomplished with brand-new, expensive items. (I was afraid there might be a tendency to misinterpret.)

We humans have an enormous capacity to justify about any of our actions. The justification most frequently cited for displays of this subject matter is that they are a "unique use". Firstly, they are almost always a decorative display and not a use. Secondly, assertions of uniqueness dont pass muster. Furthermore, if a unique quality was ever present, it is usually obliterated through excessive repetition (I got a deal on these!).

True to form, you state, "I want to use them as edging around bedsÂ" I really donÂt care if you purchased expensive edging from Wayside gardens at $75 per foot or pulled material out of the landfill, my belief is that edging material must compliment  not compete  with the plants. If it is the edging materials you want me to look at; that is fine but then I donÂt need plants distracting my attention. Perhaps a separate display would be more in keeping. Again there is nothing "unique" about border around a bed. It seems to me that the real question is not what materials to use for a border but rather if a border is appropriate at all.

Again cost and/or source of materials are not the issue. The same standards should be applied to inclusion of bronze statues.

All in all; this is good subject matter for this forum to explore.

IronBelly

Ok, Iron Belly, now I'll say it: Get off your high horse. Enough pontification - let's see your landscape(s.) Please post some pictures to illustrate your designs. I posted to this forum asking for ideas. How about offering some? - Karen

karen,
I am confused! Some interesting design principles have been advanced in answer to your question. IronBelly is deeply involved in a recycling project on which he has posted often and now teaches. Miss rumphius rules recently took vines and tree branches, wove them into a display for which she won first prize in a major flower show. As designers we have all recycled objects found on a site, giving them new life in creative ways. Frankly, your thoughts are to be applauded. However, the thrill and fun of projects like yours is finding your own way. It is your idea, your garden, your creativity. Challenge yourself! And maybe someday you will write a book based on original ideas. There is quite an audience for this type of book.

Over the many years I have been on this forum, I have posted many photos from at least two different properties that I have lived at. You have only to do searches which should uncover them for you. However, that is really not the issue. Although I occasionally do ride a horse, it is not a high horse. The ones that I ride eat hay.

It is a curious time that we live in; being that it seems popular to look for ways to be offended. If you enter into conversations with a defensive posture, no matter what is said, you wind up interpreting things as an attack. I am not attacking anyone. Quite frankly... dismount your steed; I am not the enemy.

You stated; "I posted to this forum asking for ideas." Ideas to ponder are what I offered. For the third time: Good design principles ignore how much you paid and/or source of material origin which should be seen as good news.

If we change the context of this discussion it might make more sense. Let us set aside charged words like "junk" and "recycled". Perhaps more accurately, we are really talking about introducing whimsy into the garden. I have written about this topic before and again suggest Gardens of Illusion, written by Sara Maitland and Peter Matthews. In this book there are many examples of ordinary items used in delightfully extraordinary ways. And yes many of these were essentially cast-off items.

One of the points of design initially stressed by the authors is that, while whimsy can be a powerful tool in the garden, a little bit goes a long way. Too much repetition and the potentially delightful aspects can actually dissipate into a distraction. An analogy would be a telling a great joke at a party. Tell it once and it is funny. More than once well, you know.

As to decorations: The analogy I like to use is make-up for a woman. A little bit is fine. A little bit can actually help to accentuate the positive and draw attention away from perceived negatives. However, applied too liberally and another (perhaps unintentional) message is conveyed. Exactly when that line is crossed is hard to quantify. Of course each specific situation will also temper the decisions. Make-up for riding on a Mardi Gras float or a theatrical performance would be different than going to a wedding party. The point is that things have to be taken into context of the whole and barely enough is highly preferred to a little too much the same as for your landscape.

As to borders: I will state up front (as I have in the past) that I am not a big fan of borders around planting beds. Far too often, they are constructed with an "in-your-face", "look-at-me" attitude. Gone is the subtlety. The materials are all too often incongruent and adhere to no theme while lending only unnecessary busyness to the landscape. Borders *CAN* be an asset but not when they are competing for my visual attention. The guiding question remains: What do you want me to look at the plants or the border? Taken into the context of the whole landscape, introduced features should compliment, not compete with each other.

From the utilitarian side of design, I also want a border that does not create needless, additional maintenance chores. Bricks laid flat at ground level are one thing; glass blocks sticking up in the air as a border create an additional, endless chore of trimming. Although not found in many books, I firmly believe that good design reduces, rather than increases, repetitive maintenance chores. Rather than blindly following the "border patrol" promulgated by mindless magazine articles; perhaps by simply creating a display of glass blocks inside the bed, you can utilize your glass blocks, create some tasteful whimsy AND avoid creating needless, repetitive maintenance chores.

Good design is a reflection of good living: It matters not so much what you use as it does how you use what you have.

IronBelly

Iron Belly: You bore me. There is a fine line between self-esteem and arrogance. Please do not respond to any of my future posts. I truly don't care what you have to say.

Bleah. Maybe I am cranky from doing taxes, but... Ok, karen g, please reach up and remove the heavy chip from your shoulder. Several people have responded to you in good faith but the only person you cannot tolerate is the one whose tastes are different from yours? Some people like their gardens full of angels; others retch at the sight, that's reality. My own garden "decor" which seems perfectly normal to me leaves others feeling queasy and questioning my taste. (I "recycle" animal skulls I find on the beach.) If a 4 ft. gazing ball is your wow factor, fine, but does that mean anyone who doesn't like it is a bore? If everyone must agree on everything, what is the point of a discussion? IronBelly doesn't like border edging; you do. That should not be threatening to you.

For my part, I hope you will return for more discussions here, and contribute more of your creative ideas, but please recognize it's not a mutual admiration society. People will observe the pros and cons of all ideas, and make suggestions you don't care for, but there is no need to take it personally, it's just part of the exploration process.

I like the tire and glass block ideas
tires are always available if you curb shop
I have 3 beds I edged so hubby would not mow into gardens
I used old slate and granite for one
old bricks got free from a construction site, just stopped and asked what they were going to do with them, they said take em if you want em, filled my truck up
and I did one small garden in wine/water bottles bottoms up all blue came out nice
I also did my stair garden just spaded the lawn back and filled the 12" space with mulch so it flows to the lawn

I came across the Garden Web forum and browsed some of the forums and postings. When I read through this string of postings I was taken aback. What began with a bright & cheery quest for ideas turned dark & gloomy by IronBelly's out-of-the-blue rantings, based on nothing I gleened from the postings. It is understandable how Karen G felt defensive.

It appears that IronBelly likes to pontificate and coerce people into debate. I believe Karen G wanted helpful suggestions, not combative discourse. Not only were his(?) postings unresponsive to the query, the sheer length of his(?) verbose diatribes is off-putting.

It is amusing that someone who includes skulls in his(?) landscape feels so strongly about imposing his(?) design theories on others.

Glad to see the note from gardner64, putting things back in perspective.

I hope this string is not indicative of the forums on Garden Web.I also hope Karen G will not be discouraged from enjoying the Garden Web.

By and large this forum is full of good ideas and thoughtful commentary - some you subscribe to, some you don't. And there are times when you've got to pick your audience. New to the GardenWeb, you'll discover there's a lot going on here... look over the large selection of individual forums; check out "Hot Topics" if you want a taste of words being used as blunt instruments or peruse the "Garden Junk", "Trash to Treasure" or "Garden Accoutrements" forums to see that a windchime made out of hubcaps will get a universal round of applause. There's room for everyone and no one should feel discouraged.

so ironbelly is the new tony? I saw nothing high horse about ib's posting. Had to go back and read them to see what all the fuss was about.

Karen g, I appreciate your desire to use unusual things in creative ways but IB has valid points re design vs ornamentation. I, for one will do anything to eliminate tedious yard chores. Will glass blocks hold up to the string trimmer? What is the purpose of the edging? Will it keep the zoysia out of where you do not want it? Will they enhance the overall design of your yard? Sometimes less really is more. I do have some brick edging set such that the mower goes right over it so I am not anti-edging. I was also very careful about the bricks I used that they coordinated with my 120 yr old orangey/red brick house and hopefully complement and not compete.

IB may be blunt but sometimes blunt is OK. Check out other postings on the forum and you will find many useful contributions by him. Differing points of view are just that differing. I have only been here a little over a year but --wow, I have learned a lot about design.

Food for thought.

Maria

I use limestone rock to edge my garden beds. I usually bury at least a third of each rock in the ground to make sure they're stable and am particular about making sure the fit together tightly with as few gaps as possible. The rock borders stick up between 3" to nearly a foot above the ground outside the bed depending on what's growing inside the bed. I use the rock to not only help keep the lawn out of the flower beds but also to help keep the plants in the flower beds from trying to take over the lawn. Down here in florida so many plants grow year round and much more agressively then their northern cousins. The rocks are also good for keeping the mulch out of the grass. I'm considering adding some concrete along the outside of the rocks that the lawnmower will be able to cut along. An added benefit is that the lime from the rocks leaches out into the soil and helps to counter the acidicy of the decomposing mulch. All of my rocks were scavenged from construction sites (road work is great for this) and old, abandoned limestone quarries. Here are a couple pictures from my parents garden. They also uses rocks as edging although most of their rocks are larger than mine since most of their flower beds are raised.

{{gwi:16149}}
{{gwi:16151}}

I have seen wine bottles used as edging in a cottage style garden and it looked great. The same person uses old bowling balls and colorful dinner plates halfway buried as edging as well. It all looked good because she was careful to not mix the different types of edging. Each type was only used in a specific area of the yard, which was quite large. I don't think these types of edging would have worked anywhere near as well if the style of garden was more formal.

Ironbelly is rude. Regardless of how "knowledgeable" he may be, it does not excuse a bad personality. Karen is correct in shunning him.

Ironbelly has contributed the following ideas to think about

1. Not overdoing the re-cycling.
2. Not overdoing what he re-named as whimsy, which gives you another cool word to search on this site.
3. Clarification about decorating. You may be profoundly fantastic about not letting the decorating thing go too far, but it is valid to suggest that there is a point at which "decorating" has gone too far. May not be helpful to you, but what about me or some others out here struggling with similar ideas?
4. Suggesting that edging material may be unnecessary, overdone, and conducive to extra work. Since tons of posts here have advocated the trench method of edging, this is again a valid point. I can't drive, can't go pick up bricks from some construction site, etc. It is extremely good news to hear that maybe I can get away with dispensing with edging material altogether and still create a usable and attractive garden bed. And, definitely fits with your interest in economical solutions. Might not work for you, but it might for someone else.

Just in case you're wondering, Karen_g, your posting doesn't belong to you. It belongs to Gardenweb, actually, and they're in the business of letting us all talk about different issues, questions, and ideas. Ironbelly offered several of these and I, for one, appreciate what he has to say. Don't think you'll get Gardenweb to show IB the doorthank God!

Thank you, Karen_g, for posting. It's a good topic. It will be even better if it continues to attract varied input.
Thank you, IB, for responding with your ideas and views.

Wellspring

The direction I was hoping this thread would take was a discussion on the place of ornamentation in landscape design - not necessarily that a particular something is good, bad or indifferent or that a particular something has crossed the line between artful and artsy.

What influenced this trend for garden embellishment in America? Did it get its toehold when the Victorian middle class began enjoying more leisure time? Perhaps it was a natural leap to go from big expanses of lawn to divided outdoor rooms. And these outdoor spaces "needed" to be decorated giving rise to the popularity of statuary, urns, fountains, gazing balls, gazebos, etc.

The trend in America has been influenced and fueled by our collective need for more stuff.

White chocolate is a scam - it is what is left after the real chocolate has been removed. This statement has as much to do with my original post as many of the other comments posted had.

To put things in perspective, only 6 of the 21 people who posted comments on this thread actually responded to my request for suggestions and ideas for using recycled items for edging (my main need) and ornaments. To them, a hearty thank you.

Another 6 people went off in other directions. Yes, anyone can post anything they want. But, I didnt ask whether people thought I should put in edging, nor did I ask for design advice at all. I am fortunate to have an interior designer and a landscape designer as friends. For a few cocktail hours and dinners, they have helped me develop my design. If only I could figure out a menu good enough to get them to help with some digging!

5 individuals (2 crossovers from the "other direction" category) posted lectures.

As more than one posting said, it is my garden. I do not feel the need to justify anything I do in it. But, to give you a little more feeling for what I am doing I will describe my front lawn. My house is a big old late-1960s brick ranch. There is a large expanse of brick, the living room juts out with floor-to-ceiling windows, then the front porch, and finally garage doors. The lawn is the largest in my subdivision (my house was the top-of-the-line display home.) A street runs right up to my driveway - if you dont turn right or left, youll be getting the cats excited about someone coming to visit.

I detest boring grass lawns. So, I have put in flower beds with flowering bushes, daylilies, and cannas for summer. Right now, the first of my daffodils are blooming, and the tulips, irises, and mid & late season daffodils are coming up. As mentioned in my original note, I am doing my best to get rid of the dreadful zoysia and replace it with various types of groundcovers. So, I am compelled to edge the borders of my lawn to keep the neighbors zoysia out and keep my groundcovers in. Im not looking for decorative edging - utilitarian without being ugly is fine.

I asked for ideas about ornaments because I find ideas breed ideas, and Im also working on the backyard, which can be a little funkier.

I agree there is always room for discussion and debate - perhaps folks might want to start their own strings for topics on which they want input or to present their ideas.

I'm sure everyone's hearts are in the right place. It just seems to me that responses should address the original posters question.

Happy gardening to all. - Karen

I hope this does not turn into one of those thread where people pile on the Landscape Design forum for being so rude. You asked for "suggestions for using recycled items in the garden, for edging, ornaments, etc." and to me IronBelly's reply was a direct response to this inquiry. If you do not agree with his opinion or you find him boring then scroll on to the next post.

As far as edging goes I find that the best edging for my needs is no edging, just a shovel cut edge. But then again I just have to deal with keeping common cool weather grasses (and clover) out. Your idea of using glass blocks as edging is interesting. Do you plan on setting them flush with the soil level? To me it seems like if they stick above the grass they add to the overall maintenance and if they are set flush they loose most of their uniqueness.

- Brent

I think the glass blocks would be cool set flush on their backs and lit from beneath, but I have no idea how you'd pull it off. It could give you a very modernistic look at night, and the light coming through would probably be a soft glow.

Oooh - Catkim, I love the idea of lighting the glass blocks. I'll have to wine & dine my friends - with enough wine, maybe we can figure it out! I'll play with them when I actually get them, but my thought is to half-sink them, like you would with regular bricks. Since I'm eliminating the grass, I won't have to cut or trim the low-growing ground cover. However, I'm sure they'd fare fine with the string trimmer. After all, they build outside walls with them.

I do have some unedged beds. But, I have to edge the border between my lawn & the neighbor's. I wonder what would happen if I don't - would my creeping jenny, mother of thyme, creeping thyme & wooly thyme take over his zoysia? Would his zoysia claim victory over my ground covers? Or would we both end up with a mess? I'd put my money on the wild violets conquering them both.

Just to stir the pot on IB's post-

From Robin Templar Williams, respected garden designer from England and Managing Director of the Garden Design School:

"Positive Line"
"Positive Space"
"Clear Direction"
"Clear Intent"
"Ease of Passage"
"Uninterrupted Flow"
"Seamless Transition"

Rob notes that these phrases are not unique, and he's correct. But they show how an experienced designer thinks. Every single one of these shows intent. Intent is active design. Many designers get hung up on decoration and use terms that reflect that. You often hear things like "This ____ is placed here to provide some 'interest' or 'variety.'" Or "I chose this plant because I really like it." Those are "decorating" terms, not "design" terms. If you can't see the difference, then let me know and I'll try to make it more clear. The point is, Rob is an excellent designer. Good designers place elements in the landscape with a purpose, a defensible purpose. The terms we use to describe this purpose are real indicators of how well we understand what we are doing.

This is from Tim Thoelecke's blog on the AALD web site.

That's good, Creatrix. As a compulsive scavenger myself, I know that I often do get material first, and deal with design and function later, which is, as IB points out in his inimitable way, quite the wrong order. Discussing materials on the LD forum is just like discussing plants on the LD forum - without context, it's not design, and so is in the wrong forum. A wrongly placed or shaped border edged with fantastic scavenged materials is still a badly-designed bed, no matter how cool the edging. As to what one thinks of a four-foot gazing ball, it's all about where the ball is, how it's framed, and what it's with that makes it good or bad. No item is good or bad in and of itself; it depends on what is being designed, and for whom. There is even a garden where Snow White would work - where someone is designing a collection of Kitsch, not a garden in its usual sense. That is why there is a book called the Collector's Garden, for people who collect plants. And no doubt there is, or will be, a book called the Scavenger's Garden.

Just checking back - hmmm, some people need to get over themselves & lighten up.

That book was published 10 years ago called 'Garden Junk'. It's actually a great book.

well, it is all a matter of asking, accepting ideas, picking out what would work in your own preference and hoping you find the supplies. Sometimes a thought from someone else stirrs your imagination and you do something totally different - then you get it done and love it or not. If not, got a job to work on for next year. It is what keeps people going, inside or out.

gottagarden you ask re leftover grease and fat:
What stopped the rats, mice, birds, etc. from eating the grease? same as ants eat sugar but not cheese (cheesefood) -
that would be their built in intelligence, something people ignore as we drive thru and get some good stuff to eat, lol. I include myself of course.

Lighted glass blocks

let me first say that your original post intrigued me and this is stright off the cuff with no experimentation.

For Christmas one year, I took a glass block, drilled a small hole in it and put christmas lights within the glass blaocks. Might this be a solution for your lighted blocks? Menards helped me find the bit I needed and the "grease" to keep the glass from breaking. As you can tell, very amateur but it did turn out nice. You will of course have to ask about the correct wiring for the wet ground....

Just excited about your idea...

Mindy