Try to get those lights down a little closer to the plants. I know you want coverage, but that's not very much output, and judging by the seedlings, they seem to be struggling for light. It may do you, but you are probably going to end up with some seriously leggy seedlings by planting time.

I suspect the light is an addition since OP's earlier post revealed the very leggy seedlings.

As for the light, it must be placed MUCH closer to do any good.

actually u got the right idea but what i did was found a box big enough to hold all my plants witch that number is 78 in that box i turned the box on its side cut the end out and made a cardboard door then cut a hole in what is now the top not quite as big as the dome of the lamp witch is just like yours and i set it ontop of the box no need for the clamp i put foil on the door and the other 3 sides the light is 8 or 9 inches above the plants there is a 100 watt bulb in the light and it stays bright and 85 degrees i have checked it....now for my other 2 boxes i just got them to be a lil bigger than 10 gal fish tanks and taped all four flaps up for a lil more hight witch is good because thats just what i used i had 2 extra 10 gal fish tank lids where the lights go in i had to take out there heat brackets as 40 watt bulbs wouldnt fit but i tripled up foil and put in the brackets places so as not to melt the plastic top yes i am cheap but i have 225 or so plants growing just fine and actually i think id get them plants away from that window if its cold there as they surely are getting cold off of it and im in the dog house like you but i took over the laudry room part of the kitchen man i cant wait till may good luck my friend

Jean is correct: The light setup is just an addition to the massive amounts of sunlight the seedlings get daily. Windows are SSE & SSW facing. I may still try to get the light a bit closer, if possible (i'll have to find something to clamp them too). The plants will be fine though. Last year, I used somewhat of the same method (windowsill with no extra light setup) & the plants did fine and didn't turn out to be too leggy at all. Actually, last year's windowsill was in a different place than this year (kind of East facing), so they didn't get anywhere near as much sunlight. Maybe next year when I have a bit extra cash, i'll get a better light setup (maybe just buy a few more of the same light fixtures & bulbs).

Husker: Yea, i'm gonna need at least 2 more boxes once I pot up my 25 or so pepper seedlings later tonight! lol

- Steve

I have a dumb question...Could someone please define "leggy" for me...Is it that the plants are stretching to reach the light source if it's too far away? I'm going to setup a lighting system in my basement in the next day or so and attempt to start seedlings...I've read that the light fixture needs to be almost on top of the plants in order to do any good and maintained that way... I've got 4 dual tube fluorescent shop lights which I want to use with some heat wrap tape under the plant pots and containers for warmth. (Basement is a constant 45-50 degrees during the winter) I also purchased some almost translucent white poly film to tape on both sides of the fixtures to kinda create a mini-house environment which will drape over from both sides of the lights and hang down over the shelves upon which the pots will sit. I have no sunlight coming into the basement, and I'm thinking that the white poly film will maintain more light upon the plants instead of clear film...Both ends of the fixtures will be open to keep circulation free...If I keep the light source an inch or two away from the growing plants will this help in preventing them from being "Leggy"?, If I understand what "legginess" is?

rds: Some people take legginess to heart & head a lot more than others...lol. So, a leggy plant to one could be a perfectly fine plant to another. Anyways, your plan sounds good, keeping the lights an inch or two at most away from the plants. Plants supposedly get "leggy" when reaching for their light source (meaning, they grow way more upwards than outwards, trying to get close to the light). This makes sense for complete indoor growth, but when you think about your plants being outdoors (after your last frost date, of course), wouldn't they get leggy constantly reaching towards the Sun? ;-) The plan I had last year, where I only used the sunlight coming in on a large windowsill worked perfectly fine for me. Some people thought my plants looked "very leggy," but I thought they were fine. They produced quite excellent, and this supposed "legginess" didn't affect anything at all. That's kind of my question to the critics out there...In what negative ways (ones that really matter), can legginess affect a plant?

- Steve

When you are talking about tomato plants, vertical growth does not actually hinder the success of your plant as much as with other types. Tomatoes have the ability to grow horizontal roots directly from the stem when buried, so that a tall, leggy plant can be planted quite deeply and the stem will sprout roots. One plant that is intentionally grown "leggy" is the leek. That way you can bury the stem and it will blanch.

For most other plants (and this applies to tomato plants as well) growing vertically too fast translates into weak stems and weak cellular structure. Eventually, when you go to put your plant into the cold, harsh outdoor world, it is unlikely to survive. Even if it does survive, then it is more likely to suffer from transplant shock and it will either dwarf, be very slow to mature, or not do much of anything at all.

I find your efforts to grow seedlings on a budget and while it is possible, it is not the best way of doing things. I know in my climate and short growing season, if I were to set out plants that leggy, I wouldn't see tomatoes until late into September which would be much too late for the fall frost.

I started my tomato plants last year the last day of February, from seed-in-dirt. Despite the month long rain that hindered a lot of people's gardens last year, I still got tomatoes in late July, early August & all that without a single indoor light and seedlings growing on a windowsill that was not South, but East facing. What are your thoughts on that? Did I just get lucky with each of 30+ plants? =) I got a massive yield from every one of them that I kept too.

- Steve

rds1955 - there is a great picture of what many would consider an ideal set up for the home grower and really good sized non-leggy plants currently posted over on the Growing Tomatoes forum. It's title is something like "Day 50 in New Jersey" and I linked it below for you. Be sure to check it out as it is very close to what you describe and gives you a good idea of what to shoot for with your plants.

Steve - yes, you were VERY lucky. You might want to keep in mind when making your response posts about the advise given by others that your experience and thus your basis for comparison is quite limited. What you lack in experience you more than make up for in enthusiasm but don't let that enthusiasm cause you to put your foot in you mouth any further. ;)

I'm sure many of us are glad that your efforts, given the many limitations you have to work with, apparently paid off for you. But it's like the old westerns - no matter how fast you are on the draw there are always other gunfighters out there that are faster and sooner or later - you're dead.

So please don't do yourself the dis-service of assuming you have mastered the problems or that your set-up, plants, or production were ideal or that your approach would work for all or even most. Reporting on your efforts is one thing, advocating them for all is something else. And challenging the advice given by others, just because it differs from yours, is of little worth to anyone.

Others in this thread have asked valid questions that deserve valid answers, not scoffs. And others have offered valid suggestions that for future reference you may want to consider more thoughtfully rather than put down.

There is always room for improvement - for ALL of us.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: Light picture set up thread

Dave: I know & thanks for being there to keep me in check. ;-) Maybe I just simply have not seen nor do I understand what exactly the negative effects of legginess are on tomato plants. I hear a lot of information regarding it, but very rarely (if ever) actually see evidence of major negative effects on leggy plants. I just can't believe, that with my experience & some of others (visible evidence), that legginess would hurt a plant so much. My plants last year (w/o the lights & w/o the south facind windows) endured a move of about 5 miles in the back of a pickup truck, where they got wind-battered all to heck (bout made me cry...lol) & still produced ample amounts of tomatoes starting in July & ending in early October when I finally took them down. Anyways, my point being, it's hard for me to believe legginess can cause so many bad things, until I see evidence of it myself, which to this day, I have not. I just think that unless someone who constantly argues that plants are leggy (in whatever forum, to whomever), can actually show me some real life proof of it, then I will continue to consider it a minor problem, if even that & will also tell that to others. So, here's your chance to find the proof & shut me up about this topic for good. ;-)

- Steve

Legginess is a symptom of insufficient light. Cells elongate and flatten so that more surface area is exposed to light. Leggy plants aren't simply 'reaching' for the sun...they are screaming, begging, and pleading for it. It should always be taken seriously (not lightly).

Your plants showed serious signs, last year, of being light deprived. If I recall, many of us commented on the situation. The negative effects are reduced flower and fruit production, a weakened structural system, fewer plant 'factories' (leaves), and others. IF your plants had been grown with a proper amount of light, you would have been able to compare the results. Then, you'd be enlightened, so to speak. ;-)

Your seedlings, this year, are getting off to a bad start. It's not too late to rectify the situation, though.

Legginess, in and of itself, is not a serious threat to good tomato production. However, it will require more effort and/or care in a few areas. For instance, hardening off plants, or getting them ready to face the great outdoors unattended. Tall, thin-stemmed plants can be crippled by winds that normally would never affect a shorter, bushier plant. (Plants in the back of a pick-up truck are usually buffered from real strong wind - I drove around way more than 5 miles with a truck load and the soil on top didn't even come close to drying.) They will require a deeper hole or longer trench to plant - not a problem if your soil is good and/or you have time.

With energy going into the stem production, rather than foliage, you will have basically fewer "workers" in your factory - leaves collect sunlight to drive photosynthesis. You can think of plants as primal beings - they have a survival instinct. Just as animals will fight for food if there is a shortage, the plant does the same. But the stem growth wins, because they believe if they grow taller they will get more food.

The formation of roots is related to the formation of leaves and branches; more leaves and branches mean larger and more roots. If internode length or the amount of stems compared to roots and foliage are excessive, seedlings can actually topple over, especially if you do not use a fan to force them to "toughen up."

Lack of strong light does not directly cause long internodes (legginess). It is a factor of light, heat, water and nutrients combined. I can grow tomato plants in a north facing window and have them look acceptable, but I need to keep the temps down in the 50s, not use any fertilizer and water them only when the soil gets dry. It just will take longer for the plants to get to transplant size.

I am a very firm believer in "grow your own way." But I also believe that people asking for advice need to be given what is considered to be the optimal way of doing something.

YMMV,

Mike

Yea, what wordwiz said...

It's all a matter of opinion to me, until I see hard evidence to the contrary (not just what someone thinks, but a lifecycle of pictures of a so called "leggy plant).

rhizo: You say so about my seedlings last year, yet the ones I kept for myself (didn't give away to friends or at my local plant swap) produced exceptionally well & didn't have any "weakened structural systems." I probably picked several hundred cherry tomatoes from those 2 plants, probably well over 150-200 from my 2 Early Girls, etc., etc.. Even despite the month long of rain that half of the US suffered from last year during the beginning of Summer. Oh yea, the ones I gave away to friends & swap people also did just as excellent. So, tell me, where's your evidence that my plants suffered so much from this so called legginess they had last year? =)

Also, if anyone really paid attention to the pictures I took of my plants last year, 90% of them said, "crappy camera phone pics." I think a lot of eyes were decieved by 2.0 mp camera phone pictures...

- Steve

Late July last year...Early Girl's (oh yea...crappy camera phone pics):

{{gwi:25868}}

{{gwi:25869}}

I want to thank you all for your postings here. I really think that in the case of tomatoes, a leggy plant won't matter a hoot, as I plant mine up to the top set of leaves anyway. I've planted them early, I've planted them late, I've never struck out, but I have learned, that even down here in so cal, Tomeato plants won't really start to grow fast and do really well until the weather gets good and warm and sunny all day. Leggy plants or not, they just won't crank it up without the right growing conditions. I think your setup looks great, and the plants don't look that bad either. Consider that as the days get longer here in the next month, they may look even better. Thank you all for your thoughts on this...steve

And I think leggy plants matter a lot. If they didn't, nobody would worry about them. They are not a condition that I'd ever encourage anybody to accept.

Anney,

Not everyone can afford lights or has room for them. For tomatoes and peppers, leggy plants really do not matter a lot, with the exceptions I noted. So one starts off with a smaller root ball or has to take a little more care hardening them off - Big Deal. Do I want shorter plants with lots of leaves and a short distance between nodes? Sure. But can I garner a huge harvest from plants that are tall, skinny and have few leaves on them when they go into a garden? You can bet your sweet bippy I can.

YMMV,

Mike

The girls, at 10 weeks of age, in 2009. Aren't they beautiful. =)

{{gwi:25871}}

Steve, good picture. Do you grow them out in those pots? Or do you transplant once more? I want to grow a container tomato or two, in addition to my garden ones,cause my space is so limited and I really want to grow some other things in my garden this year. Like some pole beans and squash. I never need all the tomatoes I grow from 4 or 5 plants and give away lots. I'm really thinking this year of only 2 or three plants in the garden and then have more space for some other things...steve

Yea, those are still their final homes (10 gallon pots) even though I live at a town home with a yard now. That just means I have a lot more space. =)

- Steve