>>macmex- the SSE rate increase was an easy way to appease listed members. But it >>made seed acquisitions for other preservationists like myself more expensive: a built in >>advantage for SSE (now also a seed company) controlling the exchange. >>As far as padded mailers go I reuse mailers whenever possible or pieces of bubble >>pack inside new kraft envelopes for equivalent protection of the seeds (and ZERO >>waste!) George, I don't follow you on that one. To me, that rate increase was helpful. Sure, one can save and reuse envelopes. I do at every opportunity. But for true preservationist interests the higher price seems better to me. In regards to people asking for seeds, this helps limit frivolous requests. When I request seeds, precisely because I intend to maintain them, that one time expense is the least of my concerns. And, it's not limited to the SSE. I ordered a sample of peanuts from a smaller, independent seed company, just a few weeks ago. That's all I ordered and, with S&H it cost over $7.00. It's easy to collect a lot of seeds. It's not so easy to maintain them. Now, that's where the work and expense comes in. I'm not prepared to say 'yea or nay' about the SSE seed catalog's legitimacy. There seem to be advantages and disadvantages associated with it. But I can definitely see how the SSE would consider it a good way to get some varieties out into circulation without taxing private members. Is it really best to start with the assumption that the SSE is trying to "pull something off," so to speak? I really really doubt that. Philosophy regarding how to do the work of preservation... now there is plenty of room for discussion and diversity! The SSE seems to have struck a course for doing much of the preservation right on its own premises, using its own resources. Part of their reasoning may be that they have (as have I) seen many preservationists fail, either through some problem with planning, organization, finances, health or whatever. My personal approach has been to stick with the SSE and branch out. The GW, for instance, is a good place to cultivate interest in maintaining varieties and in recruiting gardeners to do so. I won't assume that ANYONE is going to be completely dependable. It's alright to discuss these things. But getting back to Kents letter, it still seems to me that the problem was not related to a conspiracy or dirty work by the board. Kent simply diverged from the board and wouldnt work with them. There are a fair number of references in his letter which I found deceptive; for instance, this thing about a board of advisers. Recently I called one up, which Ive known for years. I was informed that the "board" part of the advisors was really only in Kents mind. The opinion I was given was that it appeared that Kent used the term board of advisors more as a way to gain credibility himself. They were not consulted and had no real say in his decisions. Plus, as has already been posted above, they too, unanimously (if I counted correctly) stood with the board. There is room for plenty of discussion on particulars for how to do "the job" better. But when the SSE is hurting, under attack so to speak, I dont think its time to jump on the bandwagon. From sunny Mexico, George macmex

I also recently signed up, mainly to contribute to the cause and to see what kinds of apples they are growing on the Heritage Farm there (it turns out that nearly all of their varieties are ones available from other sources; they do have a few unique ones). I don't recall any pawpaw scionwood but there are several pawpaw seed offers and the names of the parents are listed. The catalog is definitely more seed-focused in the fruit realm, for example you can get citrus, loquat, american persimmon, and feijoa seeds. As Gene mentioned above, if you get things from them you really need to list in the future. Apparently there is a problem that too many people are viewing it as a big seed catalog these days, not as a collective effort. Scott

Plot, I'm surprised that you had that experience; they have always answered the phone when I called them. In fact, I called them today, since I just sent them the list of seeds I will offer in 2007, which was actually due _there_ today. (Kicking self in sitting muscles) Seeds which I have already made available on GW, for the most part. :-) I wonder if you called the correct number? At the bottom of their home page, there are 2 numbers; one is for fax only. But since this is their off-season, and they are beginning the difficult task of entering data for the new Yearbook (a massive annual undertaking), I suppose it is possible that the phones could have been left unattended for awhile. As to their customer service, I confess to having been frustrated at times myself. While their response on the phone (or in person, during a visit) has been satisfactory, I pretty much gave up on letters & emails, because they often went unanswered. I would like to hope that they were read, since I have addressed some important issues... but I'll never know, I guess. And ironically, that is one of the issues I addressed in a letter, and which I commented on in my first post above. If SSE is a grass-roots organization, I think the lawn's getting a little brown. ;-) It needs some fertilizer, and a little TLC, from the landlord. They have been in a building phase, increasing the size of their property, updating their facilities, and making better public access to their grounds. They have increased the numbers of varieties that they are able to grow each year. Their ability to raise money successfully has made many of these improvements possible, and I dont want to diminish the magnitude of what they have accomplished; but I wonder if along the way, they have lost something equally important. That is, the closeness, the sense of family that you would expect from those who share a sense of purpose. True, one of the trademarks of a grassroots organization is that it is made up of mustangs, free spirits, people who seldom fully agree on anything (lol). But I still believe that SSE management can - and should - do more to bring its members together, and provide some training & encouragement. This wouldn't cost a lot of money, or take a lot of time. It just takes leadership. They have been successful at selling seeds; but they should be just as diligent at selling the dream, and recruiting new soldiers to the cause. Its not a question of informing people of the urgency of the mission, they already do that with their publications. Its more a question of empowerment; of seeing to it that every new member feels welcome, knows that they have a place in the organization, and receives recognition for the part that they play. When they paint their grand vision of the future - a vision I and many others share - they need to paint their members into the picture, too. Plot, your experience illustrates that problem. I would like to see a "welcome aboard" and "thank you" program aggressively implemented. New members bring a lot of enthusiasm, and that should be nurtured & harnessed, not discouraged. Heck, if it were up to me, all new members would receive a sample of an accession not being offered by anyone, and a certificate appointing them as the custodian! Obviously, I wouldn't use anything really rare for this... but the point is that SSE would have demonstrated their trust. I think many new members would respond positively to such a move, and might go on to become listed members. I firmly believe that the future of the organization hangs on the issues of recruitment & encouragement, as the level of involvement by the founding members continues to diminish. Absent the devotion of the many listed members keeping seed publicly accessible, regardless of their many other noteworthy accomplishments, SSE becomes just another faceless seed bank. There are other things that would contribute to a more welcoming atmosphere, but those are issues I will address to them personally. This kind of conversation is very difficult for me, because I _am _ totally loyal to the organization. Theyve got me for life. Regardless of their failings, or what I or others may think should be done differently, they are still accomplishing great things. But just as a true friend will tell you when youre wrong, I will continue to disagree with policies (or lack of them) that I believe are not in the best long-term interests of the organization. I just hope that SSE management is eventually willing to listen to those concerns... or at least acknowledge them. Sometimes when your vision is focused on the far horizon, you trip over the rock at your feet. Im the one going "Look out! Rock!"....."Sorry, I meant look out _for_ that rock". (lol) In closing, Plot, try not to let the little things get you down. You will find that the contacts & opportunities that present themselves will more than compensate for the inconveniences. And by all means, express your reservations in a letter to SSE; when the voices rise to a chorus, maybe theyll listen. Just keep it civil... have some oreos first. ;-) And from me to you, welcome aboard!

I don't think it's necessary to buy the source book at first. With over 3,000 varieties listed in the Yearbook, which comes out not always in Feb, although that's a target date, there's plenty to chose from. And as a long time Life member of SSE I don't think SSE membership is for everyone. Don't get me wrong here, being a member helps very much to further the goal of SSE which is preservation of OP varieties . But I'd prefer to see folks join who have had some experience in growing tomatoes and that's b'c a certain percentage of seeds you request may not be pure and you need to know how to rogue out plants and you also need to know how to save seeds in terms of reoffering varieties that you might request. And while reoffering is desired, not everyone does it, unfortunately. And I agree with what jackbenny said above, in that the Yearbook should never be seen as a seed catalog. After a person has grown lots of the more common varieties offered commercially, then I think it's fine to go searching for the more rare varieties that are offered there. The other fact to note is that there are listed SSE members and non listed members and as mentioned above, listed members list their varieties in the Yearbook and those seeds are available to both listed and unlisted members but the cost/pack is higher for unlisted members. Currently, for US members the cost of a pack of tomato seeds is $2 for listed members and $3 for unlisted members. A few folks like myself ask the same price for both listed and unlisted members. So by all means if a person is interested in preserving genetic diversity I would urge anyone to join SSE if not for obtaining seed, then just for helping SSE with your membership monies. SSE has been an important part of my tomato life, as it were, LOL, and I've made many good friends through the years. I joined I think in 1989, and it's been a great experience for me. There's also a PUBLIC catalog with about 40 or so varieties that anyone can order from and the online version can be found at seedsavers.org Carolyn