Elizabeth and Chi, that is why I am upset that things are becoming too automatic.

Tomorrow, anyone of us can be accused of something that we did not do. What can we do about it?

Good point, Bob.

"Allegedly" ....innocent until proven guilty?

I think it's because it seems like he came out as gay as a way to sort of divert the attention away from what he probably did. I don't agree with it at all, and to equate homosexuality with being a molester, is highly offensive.

Well I haven't deemed him guilty. I haven't an opinion one way or another yet.

Once upon a time I was young and tied one on a few times. No I wasn't a drunk in my younger days, but there were a couple times I can say I was truely loaded. Yet I knew right from wrong at those times. I suppose my inhibitions flew out the door but I still knew right from wrong. I understand some people have loss of memory when they drink to excess but does it also mean people forget right from wrong when drunk?

Was the guy at a party of all adults and he had no idea he was 14? When I was 14, I did things that would make your hair curl...with men well into their 20s. Do I go back and have their lives ruined because I was a drunk 14 year old acting like I was an adult? I don't know what to think about some of the stuff coming out all of a sudden. Things were kind of crazy back in the 70's and 80's as I recall. What are the calling "sexual assault"? I'm hearing of people being accused of sexual assault that swatted a girl on the rear with a piece of paper. That's lunacy!

Moonie & Mama, no problem at all. Im having trouble reconciling an actor passionate about his craft with the child molester that has come out, sigh. I would have had the same feeling if I heard that Lucille Ball was a crack ho or any such horrid story.

I like Kevin Spacey. I don’t care if he’s gay or not gay, IMO it’s irrelivant. I appreciated that unlike so many others who are accused of something like this, he stepped up and said that he doesn’t recall this but non the less he apologizes. My take? He didn’t want to look as if he was calling the accuser a liar, after all, they were at a party in a place where parties are pretty wild. The kid was 14 and obviously should not have been there, Spacey was drunk and it was 30 years ago. Who knows what really happened.

Apparently, no matter how one responds to these types of accusations, people are going to find something wrong with it and twist it around. I really hate that our society has sunk so low that someone’s entire career is ruined with an accusation from one person under these circumstances. When you have 50 people accusing you, like all the others do, it’s easier to believe there’s a problem but with one? I think that he deserves the benifit of the doubt.

Kevin Spacey linked homosexuality and pedophilia to come out as a gay man.

How so, Nanny?

I realize some have said that, but to me, that’s a separate issue.

How is it that no one knew he was gay? There are usually rumors etc. Especially someone in the business as long as he.

What exactly was he trying to accomplish by saying that he was gay in tandem with being accused of sexual assault with a young man?

I read an article on the alleged assault and apparently the accuser was laying on a bed watching TV, Spacey came in and picked him up, put him on the bed and then closely embraced him. The accuser then wiggled away and that was it.

As a 14 year old, that is of course completely inexcusable. But if it weren't for the age, I don't know if I would consider it sexual assault? Unwanted drunken advances, certainly. Inappropriate. But assault? What do others think?

I guess he came out due to the accuser being male. Not the best timing.

Fourteen year old boys do not look as mature as 14 year old girls. I can imagine a young teen girl passing as 18, not a boy. There is a big difference in the rate of maturation between the two.

I agree with nanny goat. It was despicable to in any way link homosexuality and paedophilia and that is what Spacey did by choosing to come out when he was accused of assaulting a young boy. This trope about gay men and boys was used as a means of oppressing gay men since time immemorial. Spacey tried to use his homosexuality as a distraction, regardless of the possible backlash of such a revelation at that time. Shame on him twice.

He conflated coming out with sexual misconduct. His joint apology and coming out statement implicates the gay community as a whole and strengthens the myth about homosexuality and pedophilia.

His sexuality is irrelevant, the assault on a fourteen year old boy is what matters and he totally deflected that by his cowardly attempt at self-preservation.

Chi, i agree with you questioning if what happened to the boy would be considered sexual assault. In my first post I said I was never abused, yet I was, by definition.

When I was 14 or 15, a man pressed his genitals against my butt, gyrating. It was at a carnival booth. At first I didn't realize what was happening until I realized "it" was big. When I did, it grossed me out. It was a bit of an ick factor for a short time but nothing that left any lasting affects. Personally, i dont feel like I'm a sexual abuse victim. BUT, if someone else in that same scenario felt victimitized, i would respect their feelings.

According to the United States Department of Justice, sexual assault is “any type of sexual contact or behavior that occurs without the explicit consent of the recipient.” Sexual assault is basically an umbrella term that includes sexual activities such as rape, fondling, and attempted rape.

The man I quoted was not "just one gay man from SF". He was a spokesman for the gay community and was being interviewed on Charlie Rose. Don't kill the messenger - I was quoting what HE said. And anyone who thinks SF bath houses were just for the few, has no knowledge of what was going on there at that time. When the AIDS epidemic struck, it became a public health crises, and they were closed. How the heck do you think AIDS killed so many men if not due to promiscuity? It didn't happen in monogamous relationships.

When I read his statement, I just didn’t get that take from it, that it was a deflection or that he was implicating anything. But realistically, no matter how someone accused addresses that situation in a public statement, there are always going to be different takes on how it’s received, I just don’t think it’s right to condemn someone (anyone, not just someone who has a high profile) just because there is an accusation. He just as anyone else, gay or not gay deserves the benefit of the doubt.

I guess the blanket "sexual assault" term bothers me. When I hear that, I think rape or attempted rape. It doesn't sound at all like that's what happened here but now people are going to associate him with raping children. Whether he was aware the accuser was a minor or not, I don't know, and of course that changes the situation.

It’s all perspective.

I agree. Under the law, are there different levels of sexual assault?

Plenty of teens (13-17) hang out around older crowds and try to emulate them as best as they can. I've seen it too many times to count.

Heck, if you want famous examples, look up Sable Starr or Lori Maddox or any number of other quasi-famous groupies from that era. Women who are famous for partying and hanging around with the most famous rock stars of the 70s, and they were all minors.

So a 14 year old on Broadway is at a drunken party by himself that he has no business being at with a bunch of other Broadway stars and he gets a drunken pass made at him?

I'm sorry but I cant throw KS under the bus.

I only see a couple of issues. Someone said it’s easier to tell if a boy is 14 and not 18. BUT in most states the age of legal content to have sex with an adult is 16. And it’s hard to differentiate the age of 14 versus 16.

“This means that, generally speaking, someone who is 16 can consent to sex with an older person, no matter what the age difference is between them.”

Also, this incident is WAY past the statute of limitations in California. Not meaning to blame the victim, but why now? Why wait over 30 years?

I don't see where he asked the kid how old he was so how could he have known that he was only 14. The actions that are described do not sound like a big deal to me. He refused his advances and end of story...right? I have a pretty good memory of Highschool, I remember that many of the kids that were 14 were anything but innocent and many were already sexually active.

I don't see where he asked the kid how old he was so how could he have known that he was only 14.

Ordinarily a crime has to have an element of intent. But for public policy reasons, statutory rape is an exception. Because it is so difficult sometimes to tell the age of a young person, the legal onus is put on the adult to ascertain the young person's age. Sure, it may spoil the moment to ask for a driver's license or whatnot, but if you mess around with a youngster, don't do the crime if you don't want to do the time.

Everyone should be believed until PROVEN otherwise.

So you are saying that both the victim and the accused should be believed, even though their stories are different?

Requiring proof is the equivalent of granting a hunting license to rapists everywhere. Sex is most of the time a private event between two people. Especially if the event is brought up after years pass, there is often no way to prove whether the event happened or whether or not it was consensual.

Not meaning to blame the victim, but why now?

Sometimes a person is not emotionally ready to go through what a victim of a forced sexual encounter is made to go through in the legal system until they have attained a certain level of maturity. This is why the statutes of limitations involving minors many time extend for some years after they reach majority.

But of course there are other reasons, politics and money, where events are brought up many years later.

Do you remember everything you said and did when you were drunk THIRTY YEARS ago? I doubt it. He owned up to it, even though he says he can't remember it. I believe him. He said if it happened he apologies. If every person who committed a sexual crime on someone owned up to it, TV would be cancelled.

Moonie, a guy was just arrested on the New York subway when he chose to grind on an undercover policewoman's leg. So yes, you were sexually assaulted.

And, it was apparently a well known fact that KS was gay. Andy Cohen apparently outed him in 2014.

I just don't see how any "crime" was committed. He didn't touch him on his private parts or show him his private parts? He touched the kid in a caressing manner. How is that "rape" or anything sexual? The kid moved away and end of story...right? I think people are using this for a way to try and get money from rich people, that's what I think. Then it's making someone that was actually really assaulted look like they are making it up. I just don't see how what he did was even sexual at all. I can see the kid felt creeped out that a man was making an advance toward him especially if he is not a gay man. I'd need more information to see what sort of a party this was. Was it at a club where you have to be 18 to even get in, probably now the age would be 21. If it was a club that everyone was supposed to be of legal age...I think the blame should be pointed elsewhere. He would have illegally been in this club. It's just getting old all these people throwing around the term "sexual assault" when nothing of any importance really happened. Next it will be a crime to ask someone out on a date if it's not reciprocated.

I do not see there is evidence of a crime, but I think it is worth noting that in the statutory crime of rape, involving a child, the usual intent does not govern.

I had to read this thread to figure out who Kevin Spacey is. If it hadn't been cancelled, how many would continue to watch his tv series?

child abuse is a crime. Allowing your 14 YO to attend an adult party is probably stupid. Stupidity is not a crime. But I keep thinking about where the parents might have been. Also, if it was such a traumatic experience, don’t you think a watchful mother would notice the disturbance and press for info? After all, it is still on Rapps mind after 30 years, I’d guess he’d be acting weird right after the incident and very obvious to watchful parents. This story/scandal doesn’t make sense to me, with what I know as of this writing.

OT, how many of you remember when Ashley Judd made a big thing about Harvey S. Unsolicited advances and most people ignored her? I remember.

you just don’t know with the La La land people...

I had to read this thread to figure out who Kevin Spacey is. If it
hadn't been cancelled, how many would continue to watch his tv series?

I struggled through season 5. Finally gave up with 3 shows to go. What was originally a great series became EXTREMELY BORING!

I still think Spacey is a gifted actor. Love his impressions!

If the scooping up story is true it means Spacy saw the boy as this cute little thing and that the latter was effectively overpowered for a time.

Lucille, if your husband or son were accused of rape, wouldn't you want there to be some type of proof before it's publicly stated? Or would it be ok for their work to fire them, for the public to condemn them and for people to treat them as guilty because there's no proof either way? Just because he's a famous actor doesn't mean his name, reputation and career should be destroyed without a fair trial first, and it's already happened.

Chi, based on what I see as your own beliefs from the post above, you should not be participating at all in this thread because there hasn't been a trial, because your participation would be spreading publicity about the issue which you are saying is detrimental to an accused.

Interesting interpretation, as I didn't actually say anything about discussing it being detrimental. I talked about accusers going public without proof, the public condemning him, and the public treating him as if he is guilty. 3 things I have not done by participating in this thread. I've actually gone completely opposite of what I said by trying to fight for a fair process on his behalf.

On another note, it seems more people are coming forward with stories.

I've known Kevin Spacey was gay for decades, it's hard to believe any one else didn't know. I guess it's like Liberace, so many had no idea. I have no problems with a person's sexual preference, I do have a problem when they (meaning all people) abuse.

This is just a thought and mind you I have no opinion of whether this guy is guilty or innocent.

If an adult commits a sexual crime against a child..or attempts to have sexual relations with a child or minor knowing they are not an adult...doesn't this point in the direction that the persons sexual preference is with children or young people? Wouldn't that person most likely have other victims?

So now another man has come forward with his story of KS attacking him.

"...doesn't this point in the direction that the persons sexual
preference is with children or young people? Wouldn't that person most
likely have other victims?"

It could, or it could mean someone is an opportunist for sex and a 14 year old was unfortunately the one who was convenient for him, or it could mean that someone had a drunken lapse in judgement/perception. Sex with children is about power and control, so if that is an issue for someone, then, yes, it's likely their victims will be those with much less power, i.e. below the age of consent, or even just younger and less powerful - not necessarily physical power.

"If an adult commits a sexual crime against a child..or attempts to have sexual relations with a child or minor knowing they are not an adult...doesn't this point in the direction that the persons sexual preference is with children or young people?"

If the person knows that the person is a minor, then maybe. I don't think a person in their 20's being attracted to a 15 year old (whether they know it or not) is the same as a 5 year old. I think one can be an isolated event (as older teenagers look like adults physically) and the other is a clear pedophile.

One post noted above:

I had to read this thread to figure out who Kevin Spacey is. If it hadn't been cancelled, how many would continue to watch his tv series?

This is an interesting point I have been pondering.

I, for one, am watching season 5 of House of Cards and will watch every episode that is released of season 6, if that happens.

I also still have Michael Jackson songs on my iPod and enjoy listening to them.

If PBS showed a clip of a Charlie Rose interview of a person I was interested in (I realize this is highly doubtful - given the latest news -- unless incredibly newsworthy) I would stop to watch it.

I am in no way condoning their personal behavior. I can separate the actor/artist. journalists from the work that is created. I understand if others see it differently!

I, for one, am watching season 5 of House of Cards and will watch every episode that is released of season 6, if that happens.

I would have continued watching, but it had just become so boring I finally gave up. Had nothing to do with Spacey.

It depends on one’s perspective. I work with LGBT clients who are struggling to cope with the devastation inflicted by pedophilic predators and the very sight of KS makes me ill.

nannygoat, I understand and sympathize with your clients and your reaction to KS and other such offenders.

I appreciate your thoughtful response.

I know we are not in the entertainment business, so we would not know what others have heard for some time now. After reading that KS was widely rumored to be a predator with many instances in the rumor mill and after reading/seeing on TV parents' stories of what happened to their kids, I cannot imagine defending him in any way. I am glad that he has been fired from his jobs. He is a creep as well as a criminal.