Building with stock floor plans i.e. eplans.com

14 years ago

Hi there,

We're in the exploratory phase of designing and building a house. We've identified a vacant lot and are now in initial discussions with some small semi-custom builders.

A couple of them have suggested that we go to them with drawings and plans and having them bid on the project.

So after doing some searches on-line, I came across a couple of sites that offered stock floor plans for purchase. Before committing a couple of thousand dollars for these plans, thought I would come here to find out everyone's thoughts on using them.

So a few questions:

1) Any comments on the quality of the plans and drawings in terms of being able to use them for permits and construction?

2) Any idea on how much it would cost to have them do some changes to one of their stock plans?

3) There seemed to be quite a few of these sites available - any recommendations on one over the other?

4) In terms of options, there seemed to be an option for CAD (which generally costs around $2000) and one in PDF format (generally around $1000). According to the sites, both formats are suitable for modifications. Would CAD be the way to go, assuming that we might need some minor changes made i.e. permits.

Anything else I haven't asked?

Thanks in advance!

Featured Answer

PRO

Virgil Carter Fine Art

6 years ago

last modified: 6 years ago

Stephanie, if you've read the "The True Cost of Generic Online Plans", you know and understand that the applicability and success of using generic, plan-factory plans depends on many, many things including a very experienced and personable builder. Whether or not a generic plan is right for you depends entirely on your values and priorities for a new custom home. You won't save a lot of money by using a generic plan; you'll just spend the money in different places. Good luck on your project.

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Comments (13)

msavold
14 years ago
We're just going through the same process - except I have the advantage of having/using AutoCAD for work...

I can't answer about using those plans for permits as we haven't gotten to that stage yet, though they seem quite complete. Most likely the local authorities would want some minor things changed to satisfy local codes. Not sure if all the web site places would do that for you.

As to how much they charge, from what I've seen, it really varies from site to site and depending on the extent of modifications you want.

As to which one is the best - that depends on which site has the plan you like best !-)

The main reason I'm posting is your last question re: PDFs. In general PDFs are *not* editable - except by exporting them to a TIFF or JPG and then editing pixels in a photo editing software package. This isn't the same as CAD where you can move whole walls, windows, etc. We ended up printing out PDFs of some of the floor plans we liked the best and then creating our own design, effectively from scratch and incorporating this idea from this plan and that one from the other.

(As an aside, I think a big part for the difference in cost is that in effect the architect is 'selling' the copyright to the drawing since with the CAD file you can change and print it as many times as you want.)

If the change(s) you want to make are truly minor CAD is certainly not worth it - I'm sure the web site would do the change for you for less than the cost difference from paper to CAD.

Good luck!
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booboo60
14 years ago
Dh and I purchased plans from a website(globalhouseplans.com). We ordered a 5 set pkg. for about $600 and as it worked out we probably only needed 2 sets. Our builder was able to "convert" the plan to 2X6 framing instead of 2X4 and we made little changes like for storage and a small furnace room was added in the garage. We also added 2 more windows without a problem and that was ordering the plans "as is". Most of the websites have an "800" number you can call to ask questions. Your local planning dept. would be able to tell you what you need also. Dh and I just didn't want to spend the money on an architect to draw up our plans and we knew the builder could build from the stock plans. The CAD sounds like a better idea actually; just be sure and ask your builder and local planning dept., etc. HTH
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can you suggest a stock floor plan?
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If your lot is really 129 feet wide, you probably do have room for a side entry garage. Usually the setback requirements for the sides of a lot are 15 to 20 feet even in developments where all the lots are several acres. And most places allow driveways and parking pads to be within the setback zone. Thus, with a 129 ft wide lot, you could have a 79 ft wide house set 20 feet from one sideline and 30 feet from the other side with the driveway and parking pad going right up to the edge of the lot. A 30 foot deep parking pad gives you plenty of room to make the turn into a garage. My parking pad is 32' x 35' and I can turn my Toyota Tacoma pickup completely around ON the parking pad. Anyway, I found this 2008 sq ft plan on eplans.com that I think could meet all the requirements you listed with some minor modifications that would NOT entail changing the footprint. It's 78 ft wide and has a side load garage but if you really can't use a side load, you could move move the garage doors to the front quite easily. Here is the floorplan (as shown on eplans) and I've linked to the plan below: The modifications I would suggest are: 1) Divide off the 'sitting area' portion of the master bedroom and make that area the laundry room. I don't know of anybody who ever actually spends time sitting in their master bedroom. When I go off to my bedroom for some peace and quiet, even though I have a very nice chair in the room, I always wind up crawling up in the bed and getting comfy with pillows and bolsters. The chair is just for looks and typically gets used just as a place to lay out clothing when I'm trying to decide on an outfit. LOL! Put the washer and dryer up against the dining room wall so noise isn't transmitted into the master bedroom. 2) Divide the 'flex room space vertically to create a 3' x 6'8' powder room on the left (next to the dining room) and a 3'4' wide hallway on the right so you have a way to get to the laundry room. Use a pocket door on the powder room. You might want to make the laundry room a little bit smaller than the sitting area was so that the powder room can be a little longer but 6'8' will work fine if you'd rather keep the laundry larger. Note that with the laundry against the back wall of the house and a powder room next to it, you might want to put an exterior door in the laundry room to accommodate kids needing to use the bathroom when playing outdoors. 3) Move the door to the master bedroom around the corner so it is in the short hallway just created. This gives your masterbedroom a little bit of privacy because folks no longer have to walk right past it on their way into the house from the family entry. 4) Now, drop a wall down from the corner of the bedroom to where the original laundry room door was. 5) Turn the space that used to be the laundry room and half-bath into a walk-in pantry and a mudroom. 6) Move the door from garage into mudroom space to get rid of the door conflict between entry door and staircase door. 7) Pull the staircase toward the left so that you can use the space under the staircase to enlarge one of the master bedroom closets for HER clothes. He can have the smaller closet. (Note that a 6'4' wide closet is NOT really wide enough to hang clothing on both sides. You can however hang clothing on one side and at the end and have room for 12 to 15 inch deep shelves on the other wall for storing shoes, sweaters, etc. With modifications suggested above, here is what the floorplan would look like. The exterior would not be changed at all. If you wanted your kitchen open to the great room, that could be done do too by putting cabinets under the front window, moving the range closer to the front of the house, replacing the peninsula with an island and then opening up the wall between kitchen and great room...maybe use columns like those beside the foyer at the point where the great room roof peaks. The folks over on the kitchen's forum could give you advice. And, if you don't want/need the bonus space above the garage, you could save quite a bit of money by getting rid of the fake dormers, removing the front porch entirely, and cutting the pitch of the roof to 6/12. The front porch is too shallow to be useful anyway. Such changes, along with maybe putting a sliding patio door in the great room leading to the back covered porch would turn this design into a much more authentic 'ranch style' home. You could still have vaulted ceilings in the great room and master bedroom. They just wouldn't vault quite so high! Plus, without the stairs to the bonus room, you could move the family entry back to where it was and have room enough in the mud room for two sets of cubbies facing each other AND a small closet where the bottom of the staircase originally was. (While a door conflict between a closet door and the family entry is not ideal, it does not pose quite the issues that having a door conflict with a door at the bottom of a staircase does. Finally, one thing I don't like about this plan is that the secondary bedrooms are both rather small. At about 11x11, they're "okay" for kid's rooms but certainly not spacious. It wouldn't cost that much to pull the left hand wall out by 2 ft to enlarge those rooms to about 11x13 which is a reasonably nice sized child's room. You would only be adding about 60 sq ft and since you wouldn't be making the roof or foundation any more complex so it would be pretty cheap additional sq footage. Anyway, your original post asked if anyone could suggest a stock floor plan and instead you've gotten a lot of comments about what is/is not a ranch. So, I thought I'd throw this one out there... Here is a link that might be useful: farmhouse This post was edited by bevangel on Mon, Feb 11, 13 at 16:55
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I'm interested in how things turned out for you and your house. Are you done building? Back in 2002, I started looking for plans for our present home. Thousands of views later, nothing met our wants list. I mean nothing. So, I, too, liked the looks of Tee's and Poole's designs the best. Where they fail, imho, is their room sizes and not enough closets; which seem to be typical mistakes from most designers. It took a year and a half for my dh and I to settle on a plan; two months to draw it up; 14 mos. to build. The finishing techniques can always be added to a home after a home is constructed, if it must happen that way. What's important is that you get good bones: great framing, radiant barrier & foam insulation, good windows, ample room sizes, wider halls and doorways, smooth ceilings, and great flow in a kitchen with a terrific size island... and lots of lower drawers in kitchens instead of cabinets. What can't fit in a drawer, use a pantry or upper cabinet. I bought a few home designer CAD 3D programs and went at it. I built exactly what I imagined our home to be and more. I am self taught and very good using the programs. My bro suggested a local draftsman who could never get the roof like we wanted. He wasn't as good as I was! Truly. My design is smarter than what we have seen anywhere. Features in my home are usually found in $1M+ dollar properties. I know: I am a REALTOR®. I'm going to find out how much smarter this design is real soon because I am going to sell this home. So, we shall see what happens. We recently bought a waterfront lot in a small gated community here in NE Florida; and are going to build another 'retirement' home ... not quite as big as this one. I am going to draw up plans myself. We love the layout in this home, but it's two story. Going to *try* to keep it on one level... I really like the idea of having a couple of rooms 'upstairs'. DH said we'll have to put in an elevator if I did a second storey. We need to think of re-sell, too. ;) Last time, I found a local drafts-woman in Virginia, where we were living before we built in Florida. The draftswoman was terrific. She found out local Florida specs and incorporated to met building guidelines. Once in Florida, we hired an engineer to do 'the engineering' calcs, electrical, etc. There was very little tweaking or changes in our plans... and this is a complicated home with a cut-up roof. DH and I acted as GC because we had the money to build this home ourselves. There's over 6,000sf under roof and we built 4 blocks high, so it took a bit to build. We also did a lot of the grunt work while building. I don't know if we saved a whole lot of money, but we go it done. This time.... I *want* to hire someone to build... in theory. Yet, since I'm a control freak... we might end up doing it ourselves again. We'll just have to 'see' if we'll have the money to build -Vs- getting a CP loan. My brother's a builder and lives next door. He built a Donald Gardner plan about the same time we were building. Our homes compliment each others. A few years ago, someone built across the street from us because they like our homes; and built a similar style. We don't live in a neighborhood per se... but we've started something. Later on, three other similar styled homes have gone in on our road and all complimenting what we built: a quality home on about 1 1/2 acres. It looks terrific. Theirs look terrific. I just hate to sell this house... but we think we want waterfront property and lifestyle. (We got tired of hauling our boat to a ramp.) Another person built a 'Florida' style home and it just doesn't have the character that ours have... or the other new similar homes. I think people around here are wanting traditional, yet updated styles. I hate stucco and it's just everywhere in 'NE Florida' neighborhoods. Ours is a standout. Looking for a good draftsman in NE Florida if you know of someone. I will be extremely specific in my specs. Again, would love to see your house.
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Its a nice house but it is not a "farmhouse"; its late Victorian, Queen Anne/Shingle Style and IMO should be wrapped with shingles without the fussy corner boards. Since there is so little wall surface showing I would use real white cedar shingles factory dipped in stain. I would not paint the rear gable of the overlapping gables or the garage pediment a different color as if someone ran out of paint/stain or couldn't make up their mind. The cornice returns are a bit heavy-handed and the little vents in the gable peaks clutter up a nice design element. I would not project the roof rakes so much. Consider bringing the large gable to the front and eliminating the little one. The fake stone at he ground seems a bit cheesy but its popular. The fake dormer on the right is a draftsman's joke and should be removed. The paired windows should be pulled 6" apart so they look more like what they are trying to simulate. The battered stone column bases on the porch seem out of place since there are no other Craftsman features on the house. In general the houses needs to be simplified to reduce the impression of a cluttered feature-rich developer design. Buy the $2,000 CAD drawing set and have someone modify it in AutoCAD or a compatible program. The higher the skill of that person, the better the house will look and the easier it will be to build. Your builder must know a skilled person. Show the modifications to us to be sure you aren't missing design opportunities. An architect's fee might be $20,000 to $50,000 for a house like this so $2,000 plus $5,000 +/- for modifications would be a bargain. If you try to save every nickel it will be apparent in the final result.
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I don't like the covered living where stock plan originally had it. The original plan places it in an ideal space: just off the great room and the master. I wouldn't change it. Changing the topic a bit: The "covered living" is practical in its original position because it'll simplify the roof /cost less. Should I bump the "nook" area out in order to give it a little dimension? We plan to put a round table that can accommodate 4-5 for casual eating. I don't see why that's a "nook". It isn't nook-ish in any way. No, I think you have space for something like a 42" (3 1/2') round table, which is what I have, and it's perfect for a family of four ... round is practical because it allows for good circulation, and with this much space /a table that size, you'll be able to reach the door comfortably. Completely different note: Inswing doors are more practical, especially if the area into which an outswing would open is not covered. Jack and jill bath upstairs seems a little congested to me. Would you change this? Definitely change the two upstairs secondary bathrooms. Both of them have the same problem: By dividing the bathroom /setting the sinks into their own little rooms, you won't be able to close the door once you're in the "back half" of the bathroom. Dividing bathrooms isn't a great idea, and it really doesn't work in small bathrooms. Simplify /go with a plain 3-piece bath in each spot. The DR makes no sense where it is a walk in pantry 6 miles away from the actual kitchen so many things wrong . Agreed. The pantry is also pretty far from the garage entrance. "Flipping" the garage will result int he entire exterior being redesigned. I vote yes to a redesign. I find the exterior overly busy and complicated for the sake of complicated. Too many jigs and jogs, too many bump-outs. Choosing a stock plan that mainly works for my family and having the architect make some changes will cost be 1/3 of what it would cost to have them design from scratch. I'm not as quick to jump on the "get thee to an architect!" bandwagon as most people here ... but you're making too many changes to this plan. I read somewhere that if you're making more than 10 changes, you're changing too much. Of course, this is a silly guideline because some changes (for example, you say you want a make-up area between two sinks -- that's just a matter of cabinetry) are not big changes at all ... whereas other changes alter their surroundings significantly (such as moving the covered patio, which alters the roofline and foundation). I think you've passed the point of reasonable changes with this plan -- that is, you aren't starting with something that "mainly works for your family" -- you'd be better off to choose something that "starts closer" to your idea. Other thoughts: - I don't love the kitchen. You can have too many cabinets; I'd give up a bunch of them /allow for larger aisles /a larger and better located pantry. It could be a whole lot more functional. - Consider furniture placement in the great room ... you have something on every wall, so furniture will have to "float", and your actual furniture space will be pretty small. Where's the TV? - You're talking about a guest bedroom that won't be used often ... why not lop off the bedroom entirely ... and make the den do double duty? You already have a half-bath there ... make it a full bath ... put a sleeper sofa or Murphy bed here, and you'll have a functional room. - How will the dryer vent from its interior upstairs location?
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creek_side
14 years ago
The architect is not selling the copyright with the CAD option. They just charge more for it, probably because it entails greater risk that illegal copies will be made.

Regarding these plan mills. Some of the plans listed on these sites appear to be very old and may not have been drawn with today's codes and materials in mind. Some of the plans are actually pretty poor. Some are good. The quality varies tremendously. Many of the plans are available on multiple sites.

Depending on where you live, you may or may not need a local architect or engineer to review and/or stamp the plans. Ask your building department/permitting office. They will know.

If you find a plan you like, you can post a link to it here and solicit comments. You are certain to get a thorough review.

The CAD option is of no benefit unless you hire someone locally to modify the plan. That means you will have to pay a local architect or residential designer to make the changes. Be careful. Costs can spiral out of control if you and the person making the changes don't have a firm agreement regarding what is to be done and how much it is going to cost. Absent that, you will probably be billed by the hour. Architects tend to have steep hourly fees.

A design-build firm probably would have CAD capabilities, if you are considering one of them as your builder.
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picchudog
Original Author
14 years ago
Thanks for the thoughts - it's true that some of the plans look old (the layout just looks dated). And we will be building in Ontario, so apparently on the building permit, the designer/architect needs to have a BCIN number.

Based on what we've found, we have only found one place on-line (Drummond Designs) that have offices in Quebec and Ontario that offer the BCIN number so if we're going to go with this, it looks like our best option.
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michema5
14 years ago
I have no experience with AutoCAD.....we looked at TONS of plans online. Eplans is probably the most well known. We found our plan on monsterhouseplans.com. I made a LOT of changes to it. I sketched them out on paper, as to scale as I could. They then modified the plan for me. The modifications cost about $1000 in addition to the cost of the plan itself. Jeff Spring, who is an architect and owner of that site, personally answered the phone and my questions whenever I called, which I liked. He was very helpful............My only complaint about the actual prints is that some "detail" pages have things crossed out and it says "refer to modified floor plan". (Things like suggested window sizes, cabinetry, etc on areas that I changed.)
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Stephanie Turner
6 years ago
We are building a house in Atlantic Canada next spring.

We ordered "review plans" from eplans.com for this house >>> http://www.eplans.com/house-plans/epl/hwbdo71374.html?from=search#modify_plan.

So far we've only invested $99. We have met with two contractors to get estimates. Although more detailed plans would be better, they seem to be able to work with what we have so far. Our preferred contractor has suggested that we order the "reproducible master" and he can make as many copies as required. We plan to make a few minor changes such as 1) eliminate two windows to allow for built-in entertainment centre near fireplace 2) make main floor sliding patio doors wider 3) modify the layout of the kitchen cabinets and 4) move the laundry to the basement.

I feel that these changes are fairly easy for the contractor to deal with during the building of the house.

Questions:

1) Do these small changes have to be reflected on the drawings that gets "stamped" for municipal approval? or can it just be noted?

2) If the drawing does not have a BCIN# (which another commenter says is required for Canada), what is the process for getting that on drawings ordered from a site like eplans.com

3) The reproducible master is $1000. Are we better off taking the review drawings to a local architect and having them re-draw the plans with our changes and to meet local code? I realize that will probably cost more than $1000

Thanks for any insight/opinions.

Stephanie in St. Andrews-by-the-sea
PRO
Virgil Carter Fine Art
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
There is thread after thread after thread discussing the pros and cons of using plans from plan factories versus going to an experienced architect or designer to work personally on a specific design for your site, budget and you. Have you searched for some of these threads? There's several which are current on the forum, as we speak! Look for "The true cost of generic online plans?" :-)
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Stephanie Turner
6 years ago
Thank you Virgil, I have read through some. I will keep sifting. 20+ years ago I ordered plans from the back of Country Living Magazine. My builder (at the time) had no problems using the stock plans and our experience was very positive but the approval process may be more onerous now.
wishiwereintheup
6 years ago
Hi Stephanie in St. Andrews-by-the-sea - would you please send me a message? I had some questions about your build and your eplans experience.
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msavold
6 years ago
Hi Stephanie,

some perhaps more detailed answers to your questions based on my experience (civil engineer from Ontario living in Maryland with a coastal place we built in Delaware).

1) eliminate two windows to allow for built-in entertainment centre near fireplace - probably can change but I'm a big fan of having *all* the changes you can think of shown on the drawings. Avoids surprises and extras - and you'll have plenty of those!

2) make main floor sliding patio doors wider - definitely needs to be shown on approved plans as it affects the structure (extreme example: change from a 3' door to a 10' door, what keeps it from sagging in the middle?)

3) modify the layout of the kitchen cabinets - if you mean replace two 24" cabinets with a 48" cabinet, nah, no big deal! If you mean move the sink and/or stove and/or fridge, yes, definitely. Affects plumbing and electrical and other codes (possibly minimum side clearance to stove, for example)

4) move the laundry to the basement - definitely needs to be on approved plans. [Aside: plans I saw on line spoke of a two story and didn't show a basement level, let alone foundation details etc.

Questions:

1) Do these small changes have to be reflected on the drawings that gets "stamped" for municipal approval? or can it just be noted?

See above.

2) If the drawing does not have a BCIN# (which another commenter says is required for Canada), what is the process for getting that on drawings ordered from a site like eplans.com

BCIN (building code identification number) is an Ontario thing - designers need to pass an exam to prove that they're aware of the Ontario Building Code and was passed because the municipalities were tired of dealing with too much generic crap and incomplete designs. Not sure about NB's reqirements - I don't think they have such a thing.

That said, you *will* need someone that knows the local codes - for our place in DE we had to add hurricane proof windows and detailed huricane tiedown straps at specific locations in the house. Odds are that the plans from eplans are based on US codes which are similar but not the same as Canadian codes.

3) Are we better off taking the review drawings to a local architect and having them re-draw the plans with our changes and to meet local code?

Definitely start the conversation with the review drawings and ask the designer (note that you don't always need an architect, there are designers that can do the job. Ask your contractors for references - they've worked with numerous ones and can surely point you in the right direction.) You might find that the 'local code' changes are much more substantial than you'd think (foundations based on soil conditions on your site, wind loads, snow loads, etc., etc.)

Also to save anything, the drawings need to be in an editable format (not just reproducible) for them to be of any use to the designer as a base. Otherwise if they're simply 'reproducible' mylars (a fancy form of plastic for blueprints), they are often a pain to work with other than for very minor changes and end up getting re-done anyway. (Another example would be if, say, the local municipality wants metric drawings instead of imperial drawings - for a relatively simple design such as the one you've chosen, it would probably be faster to re-do than to change all the dimensions.)

Good luck!
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Stephanie Turner
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Dear msavold Thank you for your thoughtful response. After much reading and exchange yesterday, I had pretty much come to the conclusion not to buy the eplans but to have a local expert re-draw them with our exact changes and to meet local code. I have reached out to 3 people in my area who are qualified to draw up plans and seem reputable. The prices quoted for the service were $1500, $1600 & $2700 +HST (CAN). The $1600 one was the person I felt I clicked with best and I know someone personally that he worked with in the past with great success. I really appreciate this on-line community. I have a lot to learn and everyone seems genuine in their desire to help.
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Angela Smith
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Another perspective - we are building and looked into a plan from eplans as well. We showed a sample to our builder, and he commented that he could be more competitive price-wise with one of their own plans - as they build them all the time and are familiar with the "ins and outs" vs. a plan that is brand new to them. We liked one of their plans, anyway, that was similar to the eplan so we had the architect redraw some things that were important to us.

Building with stock floor plans i.e. eplans.com

Virgil Carter Fine Art

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