Strawberryhill... I just looked at the REFERENCES on HMF for 'Alec's Red' to see where we got the zone information for the rose page. It appears we updated the rose page due to a COMMENT from a site user. Then, since I knew that Botanica's Roses gives zone information and I had the book and it was used as one of the REFRENCES for the rose, I decided to look it up. Botanica's says that Alec's Red will grow in zones 4 - 9. I have found over the years that I have worked on the HMF site, that REFERECES often have conflicting information. We do try to make a NOTE on the rose page when this happens, but when the site was young, there wasn't a field for NOTES. So .... I can't say there are no errors in HMF... site users are kind enough to draw them to our attention and I've made more than a few corrections, but I think the accuracy of any book or website depends on where the author got the information they have published about the rose. I can't imagine that they have grown each rose in their gardens. As for thorniness... some roses want it both ways. Here's a photo of the thorns on 'Tamora' grown in Holland. You can click on the rose name and the MEMBER COMMENTS and see the discussion about thorns on this rose. Smiles, Lyn Here is a link that might be useful: Thorns on Tamora photo

Thanks, Eddie the article that Ellen posted is the one I had read that recommends Rabbiteye because highbush are more prone to rabbit and deer attacks (I mistakenly said birds above) "becaue they ripen early in the season." I was just at Home Depot they had nothing, Lowes had Elliott, Bluejay, Bluecrop and Legacy, all of which I believe are Northern Highbush varieties. I haven't been to any nurseries yet, trying to keep away from too much temptation. I will have to call around so I don't have to visit too many places. Thanks for the advice on planting.

Check out Timberlane Shutters. They're in Pennsylvania, but they ship anywhere. They make real shutters in several different woods and a myriad of styles. Expensive, but top quality. Here is a link that might be useful: Timberlane Shutters

Thanks so much for the replies and interest. I think I have found a couple places out here that actually know what I'm talking about. I agree with everyone about the confusing multiple names! padola07 - thanks for the specifics. that really helps. was that price for installed or just for the slab? breezygirl - yes! he likes it - and without even seeing it in person. hooray!