I get it, Sephia. This stuff relates to my profession, so I find it interesting.

I think he had more than two nom de plumes. Duddly Doright comes to mind.

FWIW, it seems common for USA-ians to imagine that the idea of offspring taking off on their own is a norm and for the best, when multi-generational households with strong family ties are very common in many places - even here - sometimes out of necessity, since cost of living has outpaced many people's incomes.

And I do think it's unfortunate that bothell calls her stepson a loser right off the bat in the OP. Seems like there's no love lost there...?

perhaps because of years of enabling this person's lifestyle to no availe. How many years and how much money before you finally realize you are enabling instead of helping.

This is a really difficult area. I have a relative in this position. How do you assist a child who fails to respond to help by realizing they are getting unearned help instead of their obviously expected aggrandizement? Lazy, feckless, sensitive to insult for their falilings sort of person. The Manchild or in other circumstances Girlchild. How to support the family they have without encouraging their privileged expectations. The innocent should not suffer though dont ask the privileged person.

Till you have walked in another’s shoes…

most of the comments are based on ” guesses” as the the actual situation is unknown. we have lived a heartbreaking situation and i won’t ever again judge another. Everyone here might mean well but most of it is just ” talk” a lot of it well- meaning but some just the usual ego driven self- praise as usual.

@murraysmom Zone 6a OH, i believe the only flagging a group of us agreed to do was when there are personal attacks. unfortunately often every reply includes a personal insult or attack instead of just an exchange of ideas. I dont think anyone is in favor of flagging simply because of differing ideas.

>>".....And their bicycles were stolen because they live in a true blue town."

That explains everything.

ETA: Oh, and now Kevin's post saying that is gone .... poof. Kevin, as mentioned above, please take care of yourself and get some help with your anger.

No one should be allowed to come on these boards and call someone trash. As far as I'm concerned that would be a banning offense if I would be in charge of things! I wish so bad that I would have copied and pasted that post but it is gone now so Kevin/ OPZ can deny what all he said and act like he's the victim. It was a terrible nasty post calling Amy trash, saying she was ghetto, making a comment about she had dyed red hair and needed to lose 100 lbs, and continued to go on and on about Amy. To be honest, it was quite hateful!

I'm a fan of Judge Judy. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people declare that "she offered, I never asked" when it comes to a loan. The Judge always replies, do you think she was Carnac? How did she know you needed money if you didn't tell her? And how does that even make a difference? If someone says they need money and I offer to *loan* it to them, the fact that I offered doesn't make it a gift. But they will say it did.

So then it was a gift, never expected to be paid back? Then why did you pay back some of it? Because she kept bugging me for the money. She was harrassing me. Show me proof. Well here's a text where she's asking if we can start paying her back! Often there is a countersuit for harrassment. And typically a loss of friendship too. So the person who was helping out, doing the nice thing by lending their friend money in a time of need becomes the villian. Almost always.

When my Mom was selling her house and buying a condo, there was some cashflow crunch time for her between the 2 events, so we *together* lent her the money which she paid back right after the sale was finalized. We also did the paperwork as a contract which specified the details of the loan and documented it. Since she had every intention of paying it back upon the sale, she had no trouble with documenting the entire thing. Everything above board. And our relationship remained in tact.

Outpaientzero, the levels of anger and defensiveness and attack in your post is really high. This is not good for you. I'm glad you helped and continue to help your family as necessary. That's your choice and your right. It's up to your wife as to how she feels about it, whether she's consulted or not. That's between the 2 of you.

But to come here and call us liars and insult us and then try to make it political (a safety zone for you?) ... that says so much more about you than it does us. I mean this sincerely: you need to find a way to deal with all the anger and defensiveness you're displaying here. (which I suspect is just a fraction of what you feel inside). Maybe start by unplugging, staying away from the news and media for awhile as that alone can generate a lot of anger and hatred, as they purposefully rile their audience for ratings. Instead spend the time with people you love, doing things you enjoy, being creative, even meditative. If that's not enough, you may need to seek help to get tools to deal with the anger and hostility you display here. Life is too short for anyone to spend it in such an unhappy state.

Annie - This is off topic but you reminded me of a story with my former best friend. His parents distributed some wealth to each of the three kids. Not a huge number but a nice chunk. A while later my friend left the marriage, and among all the ways he tried to keep as much as he could from his wife (and thereby kids!) was to have his parents sign and backdate a promissory note, making it look like a loan. I could never look at him, or his parents, the same. Since he had told me about it when it was given to him, I know it was fraud just as much as his wife did.

foas, yes, seeing how people who once loved each other treat each other in a divorce can be eye opening for sure. I've heard accusations against the other on both sides, both of which I find heavy with spin. I try to stay as neutral as possible. Especially in instances when I'm friends with both parties and would like to maintain that friendship.

I've seen the same thing in families when someone passes away. The arguments and enmities that develop over the assets can be horrible...certainly nothing the dearly departed would want to see those they most loved go through (presuming they aren't psychotic, that is.)

I look at so many posts on Houzz where we have someone asking for advice on wall color and there are 10 responses saying "I used xyz in my home and it is the perfect color". It may be the perfect color for your home. It may work beautifully with your floors, cabinets, furniture and lighting, but that doesn't mean it is the right color for every home. Even if it "works" with the persons floors, cabinets and furniture, but they don't like the color, it isn't the right choice for them. If there really was one right answer paint would only come in one color.

The same goes for marriages, parent/child relationships or any other relationship. A successful marriage doesn't mean that the partners fit my ideal or your ideal. It means that the relationship works for the people in that relationship. We all have strengths and weaknesses. We all have different levels of tolerance.

I know happily married women with dominering husbands and happy married men with dominering women and happily married couples where the balance of power is equitable.

If their marriage survived 30 or 40 or 50 years and they still enjoy doing things together and are happy with thier choice who am I to say that what works for them is wrong?

I obviously do believe there are things that should never be tolerated. Abusive relationships where one party stays out of fear, manipulation or inability to escape are not part of my definition of "happy".

WIthout intemate understanding we shouldn't judge other people or their relationships.

where we have someone asking for advice

I think it is perfectly appropriate to give our perspective when asked, based of course on whatever info is provided. The asker may want to hear what others think and the posts may or may not proide new ways of seeing the issue, but in any case, there was the request that led to our replies.

"Failure to launch" is so deeply misunderstood. It is rarely about a kid who went to college, is working hard, but just can't afford to move out. It’s also not about entitled kids who simply don't want to work. What looks like "enabling" from the outside is often a parent trying to save a child who is drowning.

These young adults are frequently dealing with severe social anxiety and intense emotional avoidance. To an outsider, it looks like laziness or a video game addiction. The reality is that they use video games and isolation to escape an overwhelming sense of failure. They see their peers moving forward, feel utterly stuck, and completely freeze.

I know a young person like this. From the outside, you’d wonder how they could ever struggle—smart, attractive, genuinely kind, and possessing every quality we equate with success. Their parents did everything right. They got them help, supported them, and watched them graduate with a master's degree. This kid worked their way up the ladder to their absolute dream job. Then, through no fault of their own, they were asked to resign due to a legal loophole. It was unfair, devastating, and traumatic.

The parents stepped up financially to give them time to heal. That was four years ago. Today, that child seldom leaves the house, isolated and deeply depressed. It isn't that they don't want to work; they literally cannot force themselves to risk another catastrophic failure or rejection.

What is a parent supposed to do in that situation? These kids aren't lazy. They are paralyzed by fear.

Depression and anxiety are skyrocketing right now, and we have to look at the root causes:

• Perfectionism: Did we raise generations telling them they couldn't fail, shielding them from small setbacks in school and sports, leaving them with no failure tolerance as adults?
• Digital Escapism: Have video games and social media created an alternate reality that serves as a perfect defense mechanism against real-world pain?
• The COVID Effect: Did the social isolation of the pandemic create permanent developmental freezes?

Mental health professionals recognize this crisis, but the "perfect cure" doesn't exist yet. Before we judge a parent on this forum for "enabling," we need to recognize that this issue is incredibly real, complex, and far more prevalent than it was decades ago. Sometimes, it isn't enabling—it's a rescue mission.

Jennifer Hogan’s comment reminded me of a piece of thoughtful advice I received years ago. Jennifer’s comment ”The same goes for marriages,…”. The advice I received was this - A successful marriage always requires 100% support from each partner. Ideally that’s a 50-50% even split between the partners but sometimes it’s the full 100% from only one of the partners. It’s a constantly changing equation as the marriage goes through its life cycles.

Jennifer, I won't take the time to explain why but I disagree with most of what you said in your most recent comment above. (as well as others).

" Now that post adds to the dialogue here. Thankyou Elmer. "

Ditto

" Does your wife (husband/partner/kids/business associates/whomever) seriously put up with your nonsense? "

Another passive/aggressive ill-disguised insult?

Well, unlike many here, I've had a very happy and successful partnership since my mid-20s. We don't always agree and don't have to. We're long past play-acting about superficial/made up hurts and injuries and are free to be ourself with one another.

Ditto with the many life-long friends we both have. I've never understood why so many people are inclined to turn petty disagreements or incidents into major issues and pretend personal injury when none is involved.

"To an outsider, it looks like laziness or a video game addiction. The reality is that they use video games and isolation to escape an overwhelming sense of failure. "

I often wonder how much is chicken and egg. Video games can be an escape, but video games also shape the brain into finding it harder to deal with the real world which operates at a much different pace with much different social interatctions.

Elmer, why do you post messages and then delete them?

^^^ they are probably being flagged by several people. When posts are flagged, they disappear from view.

And yours were flagged, too, Sephia?

I haven't posted on this thread today (Sunday). My last posts were on Saturday, and they're still visible.

I don’t see your posts from Saturday, Sephia.

Well, not sure what to say about that. I can still see them. Maybe if they're flagged the person who wrote the comment can still see them. If they've been flagged, I don't care. I wrote them yesterday and there's been a dozen more comments written after them.

@Elmer J Fudd

"Jennifer, I won't take the time to explain why but I disagree with most of what you said in your most recent comment above. (as well as others)."

Everything I wrote regarding severe social anxiety, emotional avoidance, and the paralysis of failure is standard, evidence-based developmental psychology taught at institutions like the Yale Child Study Center.

If you genuinely believe you have a breakthrough counter-argument that disproves modern clinical psychology, you should contact Dr. Eli Lebowitz at Yale or Dr. Mark McConville. I am sure they would be fascinated to hear your perspective.

When you reach out to them, it would probably hold more weight if you used your real name. They may not take advice from a notoriously disagreeable cartoon character who is famous for missing the point and losing the argument seriously.

“They may not take advice from a notoriously disagreeable cartoon character”

Vewy, vewy twue!

FYI, when there are so many replies to a post, they get clipped - check for a link to view more posts at the top of the thread...

Sephia is only showing one post from this weekend, prior to last night. So if she’s seeing multiple of her own posts that means the others were flagged.

I see no reason to accuse people of deleting their own posts, when the flagging is so widespread here. Obviously some people fancy themselves the forum police. In the case of Elmer, he has assured us many times that he doesn’t pull his posts, he often comments about how they were flagged and repeats what he had said. I see no reason to doubt him on this, any more than I’d see reason to accuse Sephia of deleting her own weekend posts.

This thread has hit a second bucket of popcorn... I wonder how bothell is doing.

I haven't flagged a single one of the posts on this thread. Though, I have scrolled on past most of the time. Once bothell found her solution, that was enough for me.

Kev - I think the solution was not to come to KT for help with serious life issues.

Bothell may not have found the perfect solution, but did get much support and that could be enough.

I too thought that sounded like a solution! Guess one needed to read more deeply to understand that's what she said? Or pay attention? Something like that.

Who would ever apologize to you, kevin? You were the only one on this thread to be vile and hateful, even though most of your insults were at Amy. Poof, you deleted your ramblings and blame others.

Bothell, never have I seen a thread go so sideways. I hope everything works out for you.

I did miss Bothell's post about her decision. I was reading through a cat and it is a very long thread. I hope this works out for her and her's.

I dont see any reason to second guess Bothell's assessment of her stepson or question her level of stress and unhappiness in how things are going. She has always come across and a thoughtful solid person whose judgement I have always respected on the subjects she posts on. This is a very difficult time.

As for Social anxiety disorder, well of course it is very real but only some of those people who claim to have it really do. I am not personally qualified to deicide which is which of course but we all must know people who are simply lazy and will take the easy way when they can. And everyone gets to decide for themselves the acceptable parameters for their relationships. If your partner has different ones there is going to be trouble.

Kevin, you certainly are fitting the profile and reinforcing the stereotype.

I don't remember specifically, but I do know that many, many, many more, and I attack the felon every day in every media and will continue to, until he's gone...dead( by natural causes) or impeached and jailed. I am better than you because the people at the kitchen table have never been personally attacked by me, and I consider most of them friends. .

my President

I think everyone is entitled to their opinion of the U.S. president. Apparently, according to various polls, a large % of the American people think he is doing a poor job. Kevin you are free to disagree, but Lily is not attacking you personally if she expresses her opinion about this president.

The fact that kevin so identifies with the pres that a slur on the pres = a slur on kevin says he’s wound up his identity too tightly with one who thrives on chaos and hatred. If i did that, Id have a lot of pent up anger and want to lash out too.

Jack - nobody's offended. Just amused. Kevin (and now you) are just shooting yourselves in the foot (probably with Elmer's rifle in your cartoon).

I aim to please Suzie! Somewhere over the years you appear to have misplaced your sense of humor. As EJF is fond of saying...too bad.

Kevin I think you've gone and dug your heels in, but I wish you could extract yourself gracefully because in the past you have had good and interesting stuff to say. Leave Lily out of this, she is a lovely person. In fact don't attack anyone. I'm not attacking you I'm just saying that this is not a good path.

It's so common to have people who reach a point that they don't feel like they can back up and back out and address whatever issues are on their mind a different, better way. Violence in the streets, in our schools, everywhere.

Sometimes all it takes is that first small step to find a better way.

I’m pretty sure he offends wepubwicans, as well.

>> Somewhere over the years you appear to have misplaced your sense of humor.

LOL! I said that I was amused by your post. Somewhere ov

Over the years you appear to have misplaced your abiity to read. I'm still chuckling at you, BTW.

Anyway, I'm outa here. There are many healthier ways to have far more fun than this. It's a gorgeous day and the sun is calling.

As my final word on this thread, Bothell, how your post has entertained so many people! It sure got off-track and messy and I'm guessing that you no longer even check it. Your situation is certainly a very difficult one and you came here among friends to ask opinions. However you decide, I wish you the very best.

Suzieque good for you. Don’t waste a good day.

We’re having record rainfall right now. There are flood alerts all over the province.

One good thing is the wildfire alerts have stopped.

Some of my comments make no sense because kevin or whatever he calls himself now, posts nasty digs and quickly deletes them, so my replies made no sense to anyone who didn't catch his mean posts.

There's really no way to know for sure how, who or why others' comments disappear around here. In a perfect world, everyone would be perfectly honest, wouldn't they?

It does seem that many comments are gone.

And I wonder what bothell is thinking?

And IMO, people who enjoy the idea offending/upsetting decent people are sadistic, which isn't the same as humor.

And isn't it funny how people's personalities come through on their posts so clearly over time, even tho we're not face to face?

carol, I think bothell has more important things to think about

I hope things are going well for her.