^^^^

It is this.Also.....

The IF of what if. Well, what if you get pregnant and it's quintuplets?! Within two years? You're moving! Or praying to move!

I do realize it's the internet. I do ! I realize there are a thousand tutorials on kitchen math and God knows I know clearances, have created them with great partners/kd / and local build for decades.

This OP has put all the thought she can into the space before it turns to analysis paralysis. She isn't in any way, an uninformed or clueless OP. She has no closet, no mud, a small house lovingly made to suit two people and their friends.

I'm pretty sure she knows what is in her fridge and probably 2/3 of her cronies. A hundred "ifs" later, the confines of 157" x 145" won't have changed. ....so make the inches something you love. ....

You aren't going to take this, or any other kitchen to the grave.

Absolute YES to this

"Thanks so much for all of the feedback and the detail comments about changing doors to drawers. This is really where the experts shine.. if you're not in this every day you just don't know!

They hold as much, scroll back ! I gave u....this.?

Or similar..... much much easier!

Also......?

As to pantry side.......

The average MUD new build is and 18" deep bench. hooks above

You do NOT need 18" to put shoes, or hoodies, or a parka behind closed doors on Hooks!! You need about nine for a hood, less for a rain jacket, less yet for a dog leash or a toe bag!

I won't talk about cans or jars...look in you upper cupboards! lol

Cut it back to 12" if it annoys you. It isn't useless money if you by bypass doors, and NOT cabinetry.

And?

"but it was just me envisioning our annual Friendsgiving. It could be a situation where the short end stool only comes out then."

Annual IS not EVERYDAY. Don't plan around"annual" , Bi annual. You don't do that in a house 4 times the sq feet.

This is WHY you are opening up the kitchen!!!

In other words, there are no more words or more ways. You did the work.

And I can say this is the affliction of thirtysomethings lol

Ok 2 questions actually..

Right now everything we have that is a door has drawer pullouts in them which I absolutely have to have in this new design. (Once you have pull out drawers you cannot go back lol)

Do you prefer the look of drawers on the outside for this space? Or just the function, because truly the drawer will be there it's just a matter of if it looks like it from the outside.

Q2 is.. I had been wondering if you meant to build in the first part of the pantry area with "architecture" rather than cabinets when you first snipped a picture. I think it will be difficult to match door design exactly to the cabinet, you'll have the door frame visually disconnecting the two and feel the greatest chance for success there is all one type or the other.. you don't lose space in studs with cabinets. What are your thoughts here?

I'll weigh in on the doors vs. drawers debate. Drawers are preferred because it's a two-step action. Pull the drawer out, get what you need or have to put away, and close it. Doors with pullout drawers require four steps: open doors, pull out drawer, close drawer, close doors.

In a large kitchen, you have the luxury of having both--I use the drawers for items I use all the time, and have doors/drawers where I store things I don't use but once or twice a year. It is more interesting that way. But in a smaller kitchen where storage space is at a premium, it's more efficient to have drawers.

^^^^^^^!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Right now everything we have that is a door has drawer pullouts in them which I absolutely have to have in this new design. (Once you have pull out drawers you cannot go back lol)"

Pay attention!!

You lose interior space with your method!!

A DRAWER is the same access. No loss of interior inches.

( ask anyone who upgraded past that method.

I am going to come and shoot u?

And stick to ONE pull centered, use one hand.Soft close drawers.

Last? this is the look of high end......the DOOR not so much. : (

The only doors used in most lower base/kitchen new?

The sink base, and upper cabs. That's about it, even the trash/recycle is essentially just a tall narrow door with top handle!

You want "full extension/soft close" and you get in this decade ! Just like below

The OLDIE method : ( ! below ) lol

We had a pantry cabinet that was only 12" deep with 10" deep shelves on adjustable spacing brackets inside in our last house, and I loved it. It is certainly not too shallow, and is a relatively inexpensive build with just doors and shelves. Get a pet food container that fits the space, and never lose/overlook/waste any pantry foods again. Ours was approximately 5' wide, 7' high with three doors but no vertical divisions inside once you opened the doors, and it was more than spacious for a family of 4 (2 young kids). We did food things in the top sections and paper towels, cat food, small appliances, on the bottom. We could even have added another shelf in both the top and the bottom but didn't need to, just enjoyed the breathing room. Ours partly had a drywall frame on the edges, but a cabinet maker built it in. All plywood box would save several inches on the sides. This is the only photo I seem to have of ours, mid-renovation, there on the right - there are definitely nicer ones being made if you check image search!

@JAN MOYER drawers it is. . I do like the updated look . . And great point about losing space. Also are you going to come and shoot me 😂 😂 😂 cracking upp

I am treading the line between going TOO modern for what the house wants, but I think that can look transitional!

So what do we think... 18 or 12 d on the pantry? The ultimate question is: is the 6" we are playing with most valuable as circulation space, island depth, or pantry.

Drawers are NOT too traditional. What makes "modern" Is an all slab no trim face on all door faces and all drawers fronts.

But using the word modern is dependent on whether you refer to a style...or you simply mean very up to date! Slab is the style/ flavor as in a rather mid century feel.

A skinny shaker trim is very transitional...rather a walk the line between a more traditional shaker and slab front.

Classic 5 pc

with a little inside bead.......

..

Regular shaker with a little inside bead on doors and drawer fronts ? Tweaks "shaker" to yet more traditional.

In other words.......God is in the details : ) and even hardware selection will make a difference.

Six freaking inches?

Look at the real prep and work space on the current island!! It is sucked up by the cooker! Even at 26" you have more real estate on the new.

Want a test? Go get a piece of laminate cut to 26 x island length. Use it to make cinnamon rolls. You can't use any counter top on the island but that piece of whatever you make it from. Now make rolls.!! Or whatever!

Pantry depth.....Split the difference at 15" and get on with your life and the kitchen.

Nobody here, not me, not Rebunky, not Kendrah, ....none of us is making any rolls in there. None of us are storing anything!

THE SINGLE BIGGEST ENEMY OF PERFECTLY GREAT, PERFECTLY imperfect, IS THE SEEKING OF A 100% PERFECTION THAT WILL NOT EVER EXIST . NOT IN YOUR KITCHEN AND NOT IN ANYONE ELSE'S

THERE WILL ALWAYS BE SOMETHING: )

IN ANY SIZE KITCHEN, ANYWHERE.

Do I need to come there?

My most recent kitchen reno was all drawers. They hold significantly more than doors with roll out shelves. I’ll never go back. My kitchen aesthetic is not modern. Drawers can be made to match any aesthetic.

Everyone is going to give you a different answer on where to use the extra 6”. I personally would skip an island, live without one, and if a few months in you regret it, then order it. But, you may not be able to envision life without one, in which case I’d give the extra 6” to the aisle. I have lived with skinny clearnaces and am a toothpic myself, so for me it is not as much about traffic flow. Instead, it is about wanting a space to look larger, less cramped. I have lived in a lot of smaller sized homes and I am hell bent on having them look and feel open, breathable, and inviting. I think gaining small bits of negative space can really make a difference.

For this reason, I hope you will also consider still making a cut out key counter type space in your wall of shallow built-ins.

Skinny.....

I am 1000% on board with all drawers.. I originally meant that I was worried that the drawers felt too modern. I love love love skinny shaker and loveee modern design but just didn't want to create a kitchen that felt like it fought the character of the house. But that's also me overthinking and also TBH I sometimes have trouble deciding what the character of the house is... Everything I have done in furniture has been modern, and the bathrooms very modern but we have the crown going on and the faux paneling. All I'm saying is.. for example... High gloss white is too far. But yes I am all about a skinny shaker.

@Kendrah you have my attention at "negative space".. I love a good dose of negative space .. I hope that comes through on my other photos. I think it creates drama and interest along with all the things you just said, I'll have to update the model later. Sounds like you vote 12d pantry, 24 deep Island?

Go back .......look at this below.......and begin ignoring all of us.

' Cept me, if u get in serious anxiety, need rehab. I will slap you. Ask Kendrah ! Get moving, decide and then begin.

You have another 70 years of living ahead of you.

I am all for "negative" space. Until you need to put something away.

You are in here to cook. Having clean and uncluttered counter surfaces is NEGATIVE space. !!

Negative = restful to eye......

here........ hide the stuff

NOT so much here.......

The clutter of it isn't really what I need.....it is what I do to MAKE do.?

Jan, I forgot about your big scream face emoji! 🤣🤣🤣

Jacque, I am so thrilled you decided on the 15” deep pantry wall! Much better!

I wrote down a few notes on your layout. I hope it isn’t to small to read.

I know your said this is DIY, so without a KD on board, I just wanted to point out a few tiny details that many miss like fillers and the fridge surround panels covering the fridge box.

Now on to picking out cabinet color, countertop, etc… all the fun stuff!!!

Here is sort of what I was thinking if you wanted to have a small countertop between the tall pantries. Use as a landing for keys, vase of flowers, bowl of fruit, or whatever. I like the glass upper too. I like that it breaks up the long row of pantries. But you could just do equal size pantries across.

My only suggestion would be to stop the pantries on that wall a foot or so shorter, so you have a bit more breathing room as you enter the kitchen from the side door.

Thanks @rebunky for the fine tuning. I mentioned earlier about detailing on the island and I think that it's because in my model at the moment it's just smooth smooth and toe kick. I will likely do the finished panels as suggested to block the toe from the side. That being said it makes me feel like we have arrived at a happy middle with a 27" surface and 15" pantry. ( I am thinking a combination of 15"-12" D as that photo shows)

Last night we did some measurements and also made a change to 3 30" units along that wall to make the doors smaller when opened. Plus it pulls it out of the end like you said. I didn't export any images but I will have time today for updates..

Its funny that the photo above looks to be so close to what I'm working with and I do like the opportunity for lighting there.

In the topic of configuration:

I started to change over the doors to drawers but got stuck in the corner unit. What is all you all's preferred corner type?

Lazy Susan ( that's a door look I think) or I had googled some crazy dual drawer type units. Any experience here? Somewhere along the way I had heard disdain for Susan but I am not sure what Susan ever did to them...

🙏

My favorite corner units are called Lemans cabinets. You do need a lot of room for them, though. I have two of them in my kitchen.

You only have ONE corner, and it isn't big. I'd rather have a blind drawer. Put the mixer in the PANTRY?

Did some cleanup on aisle 9 today... I put in a corner drawer (quick research said these are 12" each side... it made some holes............... is there anything that can go in a 5" space?

^^ I edited this.. it feels like these tall cabinets want to be the same height as the other cabinets

I was going to say the same thing about the pantry height and adding the same flat crown. I think that pantry wall looks great!

Get a bigger trash pullout for the 5” gap. Unless you are using a custom cabinet builder that could make a 20”, I think most cabinet companies do an 18” and 21”. Since 21” won’t fit, what about doing the 18” trash with a 1” filler on each side? Maybe others will have a better solution.

What cabinet company are you thinking of using?

Excellent question!! I have no idea. I was starting with RTA cabinets just based on them being budget friendly but have you guys seen the quality really drop with those? I hope that this doesn't have to be custom custom! 100% open to any recommendations on that front.

I was concerned about the pantry door relationship to that header opening, but with the filler it will still be ok.. plus you always will have that same condition on the opposite side with the fridge there now...

Not sure why everyone hates on lazy susan's here. I loved mine. It held my blender, glass and metal nesting bowls, all of my glass food storage containers, salad spinner, and more. I hate the kind with a double hinged door. But mine was just a panel that you pushed and it spun around. No hinges to the door.

I wouldn't get your heart set on any of the design that you have come up with. Depending no what route you go for cabinets, you may have to modify, and be flexible.

There will be plenty of opinions on what the best kind of cabinetry is, but first, tell us:

- What is your entire kitchen budget and what does that need to cover in addition to cabinets?

- What is your specific cabinet budget?

- Are you planning on doing any of the work yourself?

- If not, do you have a contractor you are planning on working with, or are you starting from scratch?

Somewhere along the way I had heard disdain for Susan but I am not sure what Susan ever did to them...

Not sure why everyone hates on lazy susan's here.

Well, I love my 36” Super Susan! Big prep bowls, pie plates, cheese grater, mini appliances, those chopper things that you pound on for garlic (lol!), and a boat load of other stuff!

Maybe ”Lazy” Susan is lazy and she allows stuff to fall off her shelves into never, never land? You have to get a small child to crawl in the back of the cabinet to fish the tupperware that fell off from the back corner?

Aisle 9

"I think most cabinet companies do an 18” trash /recycle says Kendrah

All my clients have an 18" trash pullout

That why one of my schemes up there had this "15/18" trash/recy ............: ) BECAUSE it's a strict confine and who knew if what the wall would be?!

Or????

Five, divisible by 2 is 2.5 and two fillers, 2.5" in the corner you'll NEVER EVER stare at

OR

YOU make a front panel,a front/bottom and rails. Slab front no trim, put a knob on it and it's a pullout for cookie SHEETS

Aisle 9:

The pantry wall:

How much MONEY do you have?!

You are not going to have enough?

The POINT OF THE PANTRY wall is storage. Match the dining header, and use shaker doors,

and BUY shaker doors to a closet you frame and build. As long as flooring is beneath? change it in a couple years!!

You don't NEED a set down space there or you do?.

Or use 3 /30" BASES w/doors only, cut them back to 18" for a 3" sacrifice in aisle.....it's an opportunity! Use a different paint color! Find a white remnant solid surface for top. Center it on the 8'7 " wall!

What does that do?

You get storage but the LOW and open is a less in your face storage.

You get a place for mail, phone charging.....all the s^%$ crapola of daily living you don't want on the island to be clutter, or cleared off to make a meal..

Then

Add 2 lamps! Add A.R.T Add a flat screen tv you can watch while making cinnamon rolls!.

It's a lovely accent tide over in a white shaker kitchen,

As Kendrah inspo wall? ? Yeah! Of course pretty!,,,,,,and it goes in a 75 - 90 k Kitchen!!.....That may have to evolve. As money is saved......

You can be as picky neurotic as you like with $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to accommodate the picky neurotic and you are willing to wait foreeeeeever with your bundle of "I'm a perfectionist moolah.:)

Top 2 lines are 4 u

It is called "The Iron Triangle for a reason

.

See what your money can buy, then start picking apart your plan to see what you need to cut out. The kitchen is not only cabinetry but the cost of labor too - not only your install but opening the wall and finishing the new entryway into your dining room. And, relocating plumbing to under the window depending on what is already there.

I've never had anything fall off of my lazy susan. Good thing because we have no kids to crawl back there.

Wellllll hardly anyone on this earth uses a salad spinner anymore! So many great green salad options, ready to go/organic/needing no wash.: )

Bright Farms Sunny Crunch Is amazing!! and it keep extremely well!

I would eat one quarter of the salads I do, if not for ready to use.

Romaine? Lay it out between paper towels.

PS!!!

Put it all in here/mock up an order...........see what the dollars look like? RTA.......

https://www.barkercabinets.com/?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwk43ABhBIEiwAvvMEByYXHc9BFcvHlyNFPm_VRjmcuARl9tdCg_qlwpOcDDv_qczu7DDMyBoCz-4QAvD_BwE

related

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/2700224/barker-cabinet-review

I love my salad spinner for farmer's market lettuce and other fresh, local greens that are not pre-packaged. It hadn't occurred to me that fewer people are using them these days but it makes sense.

@Jacque Link - What is the app you use to reduce your food waste?

Yeah i dont see salad spinners going out of fashion any time soon. so many people in my area are reducing use of pre-packaged foods.

I looked into using Barker for my kitchen remodel. They seem very nice. I ended up getting Schuler cabs from Lowes for a great price.

Ikea is another place to look into. Many people on this site recommend them. Here is a link for Ikea ”hacks”.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/4306128/ikea-hacks-compilation-of-ikea-hacks

"so many people in my area are reducing use of pre-packaged foods."

If you live alone and you WORK? I'll tell ya' when you want a salad spinner and it's the far side of never, unless you never eat out ! The "packaging" reduces food waste, is easier, unless you are making a back to back night of " Iceberg wedge" : ( zero nutrition ) with bacon and blue cheese.

If you live in a cold climate over half the year, don't grow your own? A frozen bag of broccoli florets is faster, easier and has equal nutrients to farm to table. Especially if the fresh languishes in the fridge. Same with lettuce all kinds.

@Kendrah we plan to do 95% of the work ourselves. The bathroom photos I posted above are our work. My dad (retired teacher) worked with a contractor during the summers and is very handy. We work with his supervision on "the hard stuff" like electrical and plumbing but nothing we hadn't already done with those bathrooms. We actually had a ginormous 80s jacuzzi tub layout and had enough room to divide the bathroom in half and so we actually did 2 bathrooms at the same time. Also the reason you all get the feeling that I am not 'un informed' is that I am a cidq designer by trade but a commercial designer in higher education architecture. And that being said, a designer who knows when I'm out of my zone. Recently left the industry because of a lot of things that make it un-conducive to possible kids in the future . . The travel, the not knowing when the end of the day will be.. but that is how /why I'm doing these drawings the way I am :)

Anyway.. all that to say, we don't need to be completely bottom of the barrel..nor would I want to be. I have heard people do Ikea frames and change the doors but I think in a kitchen I want the dovetail drawer construction, the high quality slides. (We already changed out a broken slide on the existing kitchen and let me tell you that is not as easy as it sounds in particle board cabinets that are pulling apart from each other and all swelled and not square!)

RTA seemed to be the way to get it all but if you guys tell me they are trash then I will move on from them, you all have more experience with specifying cabinets than I do! I will say we are price conscious when it comes to labor because most of the time it is like "we could have done that"

I have been estimated 25k for semi custom cabinets based on just the SF. But I have not gotten a specific plan priced.. I think that is the next logical step. I'm willing to save for whatever we need to to make it happen (within reason) so I'm going to say on the scale between "were redoing the kitchen because we're selling it and leaving so slap anything in there, .... To... Kim Kardashian ...we are upper middle of the road, leaning towards quality that is going to last. Because the last thing you want is to put all of your OWN TIME and sacrificed evenings and weekends and have the thing fall apart . That being said, we aren't paying a contractor for labor, so that money from a typical kitchen estimate can go right back into the cabinets and finishes :)

My own research also brought up Barker so I'll def check them out. There is another company called Lanae that looked very pretty and high quality... And they had a double decker cutlery drawer that really caught my eye.....

As for the drop space, we have a brown leather catchall that holds keys, and I don't see why it couldnt just live on the side counter next to the range, or on one of the shelves in the cabinet we decide to put the coats.. we are very very neat people so I don't see too much piling up no matter what spot we make for ourselves. @JAN MOYER do you dislike the combination pantry wall+counter niche? Would you rather it be all one or all the other?

I think we would notice more of a useful change to have it be storage rather than a countertop that I have to figure out how to accessorize lol. But I have a piece of large art above the little credenza now and that looks nice and it could also be used as a buffet of sorts, however I think the woodwork becomes the art once it is a cabinet, and not buying additional quartz might make it a wash in the end price wise.... Ultimately we know this is not going to be a cheap thing so it just is going to be what it's going to be without going overboard on something frivolous like paying way too much for hand fired backsplash tile or something.

I don't use a salad spinner lol but I use an app called Cookbook that we plug in all of the recipes we cook into a database. Each week I choose 3 or 4 meals and the app will consolidate the grocery list to what you said you were going to make and I just buy those things, so by Wednesday or Thursday, we're back to an empty fridge and repeat the process. I also try to stack the meals so if one only uses half of a container of tomatoes, another recipe I selected uses the other half. It works for us and like I said it helps us to throw very little away, and also uses very little boxed or packaged stuff so the food items we are storing don't usually hang around for too long, and also leaves room for a spontaneous pizza night or friends want to go out etc! I'm also a huge minimalist and don't have a ton of kitchen "stuff" and appliances.. for instance in the existing kitchen, the corner wall cabinet and the ones above the fridge are essentially empty and we don't feel like we are bursting at the seams in STUFF but the FUNCTION is definitely something I'm really excited to improve for sure!!

We ain't scared of no labor 👻

It may be different in your area, but have you gotten personal recommendation for cabinet makers and priced out a couple? I only ask because when we did my mom's little galley kitchen, I put together the cabinetry design and priced it out at three RTA places for $8-10k. I also asked around and got names for three local cabinet makers which means not assembling them myself, and including installation were bid at $6-9k. The $6000 guy had wonderful attention to detail as well as beautiful construction, and we are so happy!

That is actually a very uplifting story @Julie S haha and I will definitely do my due diligence. If we can focus on the other construction items like the wall and floor that would be great too. I don't feel like we have planned for anything extravagant here and so I think we can make it happen in some way and I'm not anticipating cuts in especially layout. But it's an exercise I haven't done yet .. I'll try to push that forward next

"@JAN MOYER do you dislike the combination pantry wall+counter niche? Would you rather it be all one or all the other?"

Your preference is the option that best combines what you really need most........with what looks best to y.o.u.

"however I think the woodwork becomes the art once it is a cabinet, and not buying additional quartz might make it a wash in the end price wise....

Cabinetry, no matter how fine, no matter how pretty, isn't "artwork". The little counter space in this, will not affect anything as it relates to dollars.....and it surely doesn't need a worry as to "accessorizing".

Example below.

(sorry, never got great pictures - you NEVER get the picture moment ; it's like a two second window in any remodel.......)

Custom kitchen, in what used to be honey oak, arched doors......

Kitchen redo with butler · More Info

Butler pantry below..... that was formerly part of the too small dining room. The wall with no cabinets, is the wall shared with a new laundry. The former LIVING room beyond, became the new dining room- rescued from a wasteland of "we don't go in there. At all".

( Hale Navy cabinetry)

Kitchen redo with butler · More Info

The "pantry" wall below is the necessary but "boring": )

Totally functional. For a family with three teen boys who could eat you out of house and home.

Do I droooooool over this wall? No. But it is well done. It is loaded with small appliances, bulky pots/pans, SNACKS in baskets behind the doors ala "The Costco trip of 400 power bars" for post crew/football practice and gigantic jars of peanut butter. and even paper towels.

Fridge is across the opening at right to butler, in line with a direct route to the sink/range.

And the stairway is behind this wall of storage.

The kitchen would be useless, without this wall.

Kitchen redo with butler · More Info

Similar on this one down here. Formerly a dark cherry and granite tomb, with a walk-in pantry, too small to BE a walk-in.

Every single thing, every aspect, can not be the star in your show. There is the star, the understudy, supporting cast, and there is the chorus, and the guy who just yanks the curtain .

Interior Design Work · More Info

Interior Design Work · More Info

All the former walk in contents fits in the space left of fridge......( new pantry)

Interior Design Work · More Info

Interior Design Work · More Info

In the end, it is what you NEED.

this???

or this.........( apologies in advance /art)

The adjusted proportions there is definitely an improvement, it feels intentional and reflects the same proportions of the window across from it. I like that there is some relief, and I totally understand the story about people who live a different life than us with the Costco runs and what their needs are compared to ours. Obviously I don't have a crystal ball to know how ours will change at the instance of an additional mouth in the house but I think this sketch provides some balance between those two lives and solves the initial problem of the no entry zone.

I would say that I do like the addition of a drop space here since that is exactly why we added the credenza now on that wall. In the last sketch, essentially the first tall unit would be like a mini closet/locker type function and the second may be secondary storage/pantry items but that being said, we could always add more hooks to the other side if necessary after living with it for awhile.

I will adjust and post the updates.. happy Easter everyone! 🐰 🐣

I didnt have enough space for 30 48 30, so I went 24 48 24.. looking more composed for sure - I tried 30 36 30 at first but it wasn't drastic enough of a change between the 3 sections to get the effect we liked about the sketch. There is still 3-6 corner to corner on these two sides here. The model is forshortening this compared to the floor plan - the second 3d image is little bit better representation of where the two end from each other.

Love the wider counter cut out area in the storage wall. It can also transform into a bar when entertaining. Makes more sense give you don’t have huge storage needs. And yes, the left wall cabinet will make a great shoe/coat area. Never underestimate how many coat you can cram onto a row of many hooks.

Local cabinet makers can mean any number of things. If you get quotes from one ask if you can tour their workspace, ask where all of their components are from and what they are made of. In the low end price range a custom shopnis likely assembling part of rta cabinets, but you just dont know the name or brand so cannot evaluate the quality. I have seen fantastic Ilea kitchen that have lasted 20 years. With your ability to DIY, I put it high on the list of RTA options.

I think that the best design for this kitchen is first removing the wall between the dining room and the kitchen. Eliminate an island and then move the sink under the window. Range should go on the wall where refrigerator is about 18" from the end of the run. This give maximun work space between the sink and the cooktop.

Then create a peninsula with seating coming off the sink wall where the pantry is now. Finally move the pantry, the refrigerator and base and wall cabinetry to the back wall. Because the island is eliminated which there isn't enough room for to do well, you will end up with way more cabinetry and countertop and far more open space in the middle of the kitchen.

We review designs from all over the US free of charge every Friday 2-4 pm EST. Just call 610-500-4071 ready to send designs. A small percentage of the calls we turn into our podcast. Here's a link to our latest episode. Calls with Paul Episode 53

Try this.......put the detail in : )

21" 42 " 21

A little gain at the entry of "not in your face"

because while the wall is same, less "tall In your face at the pinch" is a perception of more than is there .

On a 103" wall ( 8'7"

Line up the door to short cabinet ratio

LOL.......Yes, I realize the art is getting worse, I'm making a dessert to travel

Line UP the split of the tall door with the shorter cabinets middle.As the art gets worse....

But I know you'll get it

HMMM I kind of like the taller opening (21 42 21..30H). Will I get arrested for not having aligned uppers all around?!

I've been liking inspo images of this fluted glass!

MUCH nicer at the door

They both look good!! Either way! I like the taller opening and I think the extra 6" at the entry point is definitely a painless gain in airiness at the pinch point

There are no kitchen police, ( well a few of US ) and I would not be afraid of making that entire side .....a different paint color, either.

It's not a wet area, so it needs no tile.....Hang art!

In other words, it's the spot in the kitchen that sort of blends the utility of needed storage you can't SEE with the feel of connecting with dining room? Especially with a little mini bar set up when entertaining!

I concur that this wall is a separate visual feature in your kitchen. The uppers don't need to align, and in fact, I think it looks better if they don't. The more you differentiate this area, the more open I think the room will feel because it is not hemmed in by sameness on all the cabinet walls.

It is a delight to see how this space is evolving. I agree the fluted glass is a nice feature. For the opening consider - concealed under cabinet lighting on a separate dimmer switch.

Thoughts for the opening finish: 1. A mirrored back. 2. A walnut countertop and slab of walnut for the back. 3. Keep the back of the opening unfinished and wait to find the perfect piece of artwork or object to hang. I'm obsessed with vintage silver art deco trays and would hang one there in a heartbeat, though I know that is quite a specific look! Check out images of small built-in dry bar nooks for inspiration.

@JAN MOYER - You are the founding member of the FOkP. (Fraternal Order of kitchen Police.)

Small mirrored areas.

Omg it is actually funny that you mention art deco trays . . We have an inside joke that when I first met my husband he thought art deco was a person. Like as in ARTHUR 😂. So any time I get a chance to plug Sir Arthur P Deco into anything, I do lol. Plus my living room fireplace is so deco. And that's how it came with the house believe it or not!

I really like the idea of art here, the idea of it being a mini bar (he's going to like that too) and the change in color. I can put color to the model, stay tuned........

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"ART"!!!

I only got to one tonight!! wood on wood... hm...................................

as much as I like the painted greenish/teal colors in photos, it just wasn't looking right here. I can't exactly place why. I have been trying to warm up some of my color choices lately so maybe that's why some of the cooler green inspos I tried weren't jiving.. I was thinking the island and the pantry would be white to "go away" as much as possible

Your kitchen! I'd probably keep all the perimeter white, maybe do the island in a wood stain?

Don't forget......there are stools ,there can be a backsplash, etc, there will be WOOD on the floor......so?

Looking great Jacque! Nice job on the rendering!

Sir Arthur P Deco, oh my word that is hilarious!

I have The Frame TV in my open kitchen/dining/living room. When it is turned off it looks like a framed work of art. I have fun changing up the ”art”. They have so much you can chose and access to museums all around the world. I love it!

Sometimes I put on upbeat music videos and rock out as I cook. Other times I turn on softer music that show pictures of beautiful destinations around the world. I change it up depending on my mood! Or if my husband cooks, he can still watch the game.

I could not find a great example, but you could still have the higher cabinets running above it between the pantries if you want. Just an idea, but thumbs up on the art!

There's a you tube revolve in my nail salon.

All nature, incredible revolving photography , movie style. It is "mes mer izing"!!

So close I can taste it..

I definitely want to try to flip the white and wood! I agree, and especially after looking at more pictures that there is enough wood, and the dining table is also wood and the stools as you said so, plenty of opportunities. I feel like white kitchens were deemed "out" but perhaps only when done builder grade flipper style.... I tried greens and charcoal last night but wasn't wild on either. Will try white!

I also need to get pulls in the model, because that will give a total picture but that was too tedious for 10pm!

No kidding, there are no better. Huge selection with multiple sizes/finishes.

You want to use as few sizes as possible.....: ) if pulls.

https://www.topknobs.com/