I suspect that when the roof panels are formed. That they are not bent perfectly straight. One side is getting stretched or deformed irregularity. Then I doesn't line up with the edge of the prior piece. Causing a wrinkle when the installer tries to line it up.

Can you you a string or Mason line, chalk line and place it next to a formed panel and check if it is straight ?

I, too believe it may be a result of poor forming of the panels. I've seen metal panels being formed in a factory. The machines are very long, with many rollers controlling the bending process. The trailer mounted on-site machines try to do everything in the length of a trailer.

I have no experience with site formed metal roofing, but it sounds like that may be the culprit.

I’ll check with a line or a laaer to see if the panels are warped from the start. That’s a good idea.

And Mark you’re right - the panels are Custom Bilt SL-100 snap lock panels. they are atill technically a standing seam, but not in the traditional sense: instead of clips fastened to the deck and panels mechanically seamed, one side is screwed down and the other side anaps to the previous panel. ours are a two pencil rib profile similar to the lower left in your image.

They also do come off the machine with the holes punched through - the holes end up arounf 3/16 wide by 1” long, and the punched metal is fulded under, providing a little shim keeping the panel from touchong the substrate. the problem with overtightening the screws (concealed pancake screws) is twofolstwofold. first, if they are too tight it can pull the panel down into contact with the substrate, sometimes bending it which is probably why the XFR edges keep showing through. Second is that of one side is rigidly attached to the deck, and the other can slide freely, they they will expand at different rates and buckle. This could be one of the reasons the warping I’m seeing is asymmetrical - it could be that the oilcanning is asymmetrical, unlike a traditional standing seam where both sides are equally constrained and the result is a more uniform waviness.

Knowing all this now I don’t know if I would have gone with these type of snap lock panels. they were a cheaper option, but I may now understand why. But it’s the system I agreed to and I’ll stand by that, so the best I can do is get them to at least install it properly.

I posted that last comment through the website without my phone’s autocorrect and man the spelling…

Fun update on the project. We’re having some light rain and the roof is leaking in at least four places, mainly around the skylights. The XFR underlayment they put down is supposed to be rated for six month exposed, but the way they laid it down it didn’t last even a few days. I put buckets under the leaks which should hold until tomorrow, ,but this is getting ridiculous.

At least the ceilings are getting opened up and a lot of new drywall is going in for the skylight shafts, and it’s all getting painted, so there will be time to fix it before paint. But it’s just taking my confidence down another notch.

Bomber,this must be wearing your patience thin. There's a tongue-in-cheek that says if a couple can build or remodel a house without killing one another or getting divorce they will prosper together into old age.

I put a metal roof on my house years ago. There was a problem with shipping that put wear marks on the finish that wore down to bare metal. It was discovered during instalation after all the existing roof shingles were removed. While waiting for a new shipment of metal, you guessed it, it rained soaking all the ceiling insulation and pouring into the house through the recessed lights.

I feel your pain.

Installing skylights in any roof is problematic, but they are a special PIA in standing seam metal roofs. There are details for flashing roof penetrations on pp 23 and 24 of the Custom-Bilt Metals installation instructions. I'm betting they weren't followed properly, if at all.

Bamboo huts in S.E. Asia tell us it's all about flashing, NOT silicon caulk when it comes to water tight roofing. Ditto for cedar shake and clay tile roofs.

This bamboo hut is not telling me much about flashing.

It sounds like you're dealing with a situation that is fixable with some attention to detail. The underlayment must be installed flat and tight to ensure it doesn't create bumps or unevenness beneath the metal panels. If the underlayment has creases or misalignment, those imperfections will transfer through the metal. Another common issue is over-tightening the screws, which can lead to warping or dimpling of the panels. You want the screws to be snug but not so tight that they distort the metal.

So a new development. The roofing company is pulling everything off and starting from scratch (the underlayment was definitely not right) but they were also concerned about the panels, as you guys had mentioned they might not have been rolled properly. Anyway they laid one out, and saw this:

The guy with the roll forming machine on the trailer said he was having trouble “calibrating the machine between jobs” so we may have found another factor. The original stack of panels was laid down with a slight bend, so they “look” flat. But when they are actually laid down flat this shows.

" The company is solid - 4.8 stars with hundreds of reviews. Most of the homes are well over $1M."

" Yeah and they came as a recommendation from a friend GC who does a lot of multimillion dollar projects."

How much consolation do you feel based on the fact company has all those stars beside their name, smoke big cigars and drive nice cars while waving big hats in the air?

I may owe aklogcabin 3¢.

Yeah it’s not great. But the one thing I will say is that the company’s has been willing to talk and figure it out. It looks like the main problem is that the panels are just so thin that they are picking up every overlap of the underlayment. Today they tried running 30# felt vertically under the panels to help hide the seams, and it seems to be working. The superintendent of the company came out and said that ours was the second job that was done with panels from a new supplier. Same gauge, same pattern, but the new ones just don’t look as good.. Anyway here’s an updated photo:

Here’s that photo. I think the time of day and weather is helping the roof out here… but if it looked like this all the time I’d be happy.

" . . . to help hide the seams, and it seems to be working."

Good one.

The problem with learning from experience is that you get the test before the lesson.

I don't know how shaded your roof is, but I would not want to use felt in direct contact with metal roof panels and certainly not where high temperature resistance is required. It can interfere with the panels' ability to expand/contract and it has a much shorter life expectancy than the other components in the roof system. Where felt is used as an underlayment, a slip sheet of some type is often used to isolate the felt and the panels so the panels are free to move.

I can't tell from your photo whether metal eave trim is installed. It should be installed prior to installing the panels and a portion of the vertical legs caulked before applying and seaming the adjacent panel (see pp. 4 and 5 of the Custom-Bilt Metals instructions.) Looks like the underlayment still has wrinkles which leads me to believe it wasn't rolled per the manufacturer's installation instructions.

Will it snow much on this roof?

Funny this post came up recently. DH and I were driving out of our neighborhood. A new house is being built and they put a metal roof on. We both commented how bad it looked. Looks very similar.

Not much snow on the roof. Northern CA so at most an inch or two every 3-5 years.

It’s good to know about the felt. It really feels like a hack when it shouldn’t be doing this at all. I took another photo of their test panels with the felt once the sun came out and it’s just not great.

I’ve asked them for a solution and said that we’d most likely want them to scrap this roof and go back to the supplier they have worked with and had success with, The supplier of the panels they showed us as an example of what we were buying.

Here’s a shot around noon on a 60 degree day.

Still picking up the lines of the underlayment.

One other interesting thing is that every panel seems to have those wrinkles along the right side, until they get snapped onto the panel preceding them. Perhaps that bending stress from the rolling process is straightened out enough to flatten it a little, but that tension is still present and not showing up in other places.

I don’t know. They have already spoken to the metal supplier complaining about the panels - hopefully that will be enough for them to just pull these off and do a good job with the materials they know. But I’m also not looking forward to the process if they don’t want to go that route.

As accommodating as they’ve been, at no point have they come and said “we understand that it’s not right, and we’ll do what it takes to make it right.” I just worry that at some point they will get fed up and want to be done with it.

And sorry, those wrinkles I mentioned are in the left side of the unattached panels.

I wouldn't want to be holding either of the hands in this game.

Consider 22-gauge metal.

At least you're not building a castle inside a monolithic dome.

Hey Mark - yeah these are 16” 24g panels. If I have the option of switching suppliers and upgrading, I would go with 12” 22g panels with bigger striations. I know Metal Supply has two snap lock products - one with panels that bolt to the deck, and one with clips, and the one with clips comes in 22g.

At this point my ideas on the asthetic are second to how well it works. I would love a classic look - thick flat panels that last forever - but at this point I’d settle for one with straight lines that doesn’t look like press-on tin foil.

Your contractor needs to find a new roofer/supplier. That is horrible.

Somebody is gonna have to take a womping before this is over.

It actually looks like the contractor is open to swapping out the metals, but the company that made the panels wants to come and see what’s going on to make their own product better. If they get good learning and we get a nice roof it just might be a win-win-win… Here’s hoping it’s that instead of a womping :)

I think this is one of those scenarios where a supplier has just tipped over the edge of design feasibility / material limitations. Rolling 24g steel on site has limitations - MAYBE it can be done if all conditions are perfect - but in reality - you have to design for 80%.

I hope it turns out that way aaron.

If nothing else, I discovered "womping" is a word.

Don't say womping amongst a crowd holding little fingers out sipping drinkypoos.

Butt shaving is usually enough to make that bunch run hide beneath the porch.

..

I have learned a lot lately about building a home and other important social aspects.

These guys know their job. Metal roof.

Standing on the edge of the roof while removing the gutters is a red flag for me.

Mark. Which superstar running back worked summers as a teen for his dads roofing company. Ankles get built for quick moves working at angles all day.

So it looks like the best case scenario is coming to pass and the company is removing the panels and using their old supplier.

I’m still nervous about the end result, so I’m going to try and give the company a chance to upsell me and give themselves every advantage here. I know I am going to stay with snap lock, but there are snap lock panels that ride on clips instead of being tied directly to the deck. And they come in 22g. If that’s not prohibitively expensive I’d be included to upgrade.

I’d rather spend a little more to have something that looks correct for the rest of my life.

Changing to 22 gauge panels won't prevent wrinkles and seams of improperly installed underlayment from telegraphing through. The underlayment, panels, and accessories need to be properly installed. I'm not sure your contractor is capable of that. You'll be well served to hire a roofing consultant to guide the process if there is one in your area. The local rep for the panel company might have the necessary expertise.

My concern is it took the roofer this long to make the deciusion that it was the product. That leads me to doubt his expertise and value quite honestly. I said it earlier I would be looking for both a new supplier and a roofer.

Yeah those are good ideas - thanks! I hope that any rolling issues will be solved by switching to Metal Sales, which is their previous supplier. The MS panels come from a factory and are not rolled on site, so the quality should be one notch above. And I also hope that any installation issues are also fixed - the crew has done hundreds of metal roofs and they are good at it. They are not all well-rounded experienced roofers - some of them are quite young - but they’ve trained extensively with the materials they know, and my hope is that when they’re using a product they have used over and over they can fall back on their training rather than trying to learn something new.

" the crew has done hundreds of metal roofs and they are good at it "

Yet it took them 2 tries to figure out the product was inferior and they would have kept going if you did not stop them, if I followed correctly.

Yeah, I think they were trying to make the best of a learning situation. It’s true that I should not have had to stop them - they should have been able to tell that it was not going in right - but I’m glad I was there for quality check.

They have since confirmed that they’re not only going to take all the panels off and replace them with panels that use clips (Metal Sales Vertical Seam snap lock panels) but they are no longer going to work with Custom Bilt and just stick with what they know works.

Hopefully this will save some homeowners a headache like this in the future..

Nothing has happened on site so far, but I will send update photos as they go in :).

This has been a pain for you but sounds like they are making it right.

I think so. They may comeback with an increase in cost since ai’m asking for an upgrade in material, and I’ll have to figure that out. I’m also looking for ways to make this a bit easier on them as it’s a lot of metal to eat. I have a small barn that I’m not as particular about the aesthetics of, and It desperately needs a new roof as well. I’m wondering if they would see it as a bonus if I hired them to use the old material they’re taking off the house for the barn. Like maybe a larger job would make the kit a smaller percentage? They might also think that I was just trying to get free metal all along… I definitely don’t want to mess up the process of them getting the roof right, but I do want to try and make the situation better for everyone. For now I’m just focused on the main roof, and I’ll see how that comes together. And I’ll keep updating.

The one thing ai will say is that despite there being some pushback initially on the job, which I get, the company is doing everything to make it right. They have spent the time to try and fix it, and they are doing the right, but expensive for them, thing to replace it. Not a trivial thing, and I appreciate it.