My sister and I both received this email. Ugh...

What are you going to do?

I decided to go ahead with the order;my sister cancelled hers.

What about you?

Debating, afraid it’s a scam.

I called them and spoke to Rachel. I've talked to her many times. I don't think it is..

ok, I just talked to my sister and she said that she didn't cancel her order...

I got the same email and called them. I absolutely do not think it is any kind of scam on their part. I provided information so my order will ship.

My guess is it is tariff related.

A couple of years ago, my DH ordered a trombone from Germany. He had to provide an SSN to get it through customs.

I received the email. i will call Palatine by their phone number from Palatines website. Not sure about providing SSN/tax ID.

Midnight, last night, T imposed 25 % tariffs on Canada imports to US.

Appears to me that tax ID numbers are needed from buyers to see who pays tariffs, which Palatine explains. It really complicates all imports from Canada to US buyers. . when you buy from Canada, ”do we all now need provide our SSNs”?” Wow!

I was afraid Palantine had been hacked was my major concern. I didn’t think tariffs took effect until April 2nd and thought mailing March 31st avoided it?

This is not a scam and I trust Palatine, but I am not providing this kind of sensitive info for this. I have asked to cancell all my orders and Rachel did. They will keep 10% as part of the processing fee and so on and I am alright with that. Our government should be able to look up this info if they wanted to without requiring us to provide it to an outside vendor. Palatine could get hacked and our info end up in the wrong hands, not something I am willing to risk.

They are on crack. The only way I would provide a tax ID is if it was a business purchase. They would never be getting my SS. The less people who have all your info in their computers, the better. Just the government having it is risky enough..They seem to be hacked easily.

From Palatine’s website now:

The status of US import tariffs is constantly changing, with recent tariffs being rescheduled, imposed, lifted, and extended again. Please know for the roses shipping this spring 2025 – If the US government applies a tariff to our shipments, we will have to pass this cost along to our US customers. Thank you for being so understanding.

Kitty reports: “Appears to me that tax ID numbers are needed from buyers to see who pays tariffs, which Palatine explains. It really complicates all imports from Canada to US buyers. . when you buy from Canada, ”do we all now need provide our SSNs”?” Wow!”

IF what Kitty says is true:

If you don’t give Palatine your SS#, do you “pay the tariff”?

If you give Palatine your SS#, do you “pay the tariff”?

Rifis my email from palatine stated that any shipments before the tariffs get implemented need to have the SSN but won’t have the tariff (up to march 31st). Shipments starting in April will require both SSN and tariffs. Since my issue is not with the tariffs, but with the crazy idea I would have to provide such private information I cancelled my order.

It seemed there was absolutely no way to get away with not providing the ssn or tax id no matter the status of the tariffs.

Giving out SSN OR TAX ID number to a vendor everytime you buy from Canadian vendor or any foreign company does not sound like a good idea. Why would we wish to give this sensitive info to a vendor-because they need to pay a tariff or wish to pass tariff onto us? Not a good biz practice. Tariffs seem to be causing problems. Ooops!

i am very supportive of Palatine Roses, but not pleased with gov. requirements to giving out personal info. for each foreign purchase.

i am still fine and plan to receive my order.

The seller doesn't pay the tariff, the buyer does. You'd better believe tariffs cause problems, and we're just finding out. They are a 19th century trading tactic that doesn't work in the twenty first century Diane

dianela:
Did Palatine explicitly say why you must provide a SS# in order to receive your roses now?
And did they say to whom your SS# would be given ( and why that entity needs a SS# - your SS#)?

For those who hate AI, do not read below.

For others, some explanations and suggestion.

When you import live plants (like roses) from Canada to the U.S., they go through U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP). For certain shipments, especially live plant material, customs may require the importer (you, the customer) to be identified officially.

Why Palatine is asking for your SSN:

• Your Social Security Number (SSN) or IRS EIN can be used to fill out CBP Entry Summary forms (like Form 3461).

• This applies particularly when:

  • You're importing goods over a certain value.
  • You're importing restricted agricultural goods (like live plants).
  • The customs broker (in this case, used by Palatine) is filing on your behalf.

Is it safe to give it to them?

Only if you're 100% sure you’re communicating directly with Palatine Roses through their official communication channel (like their official website or customer support email). Many reputable nurseries in Canada (Palatine included) now include this requirement for U.S. buyers due to updated enforcement of customs procedures.

Your Options:

• If you're uncomfortable providing your SSN, you could:

  • Get a Customs Assigned Importer Number from CBP (instead of using your SSN). It’s free, but takes a few days to process.

It's simple. Cancel your order, and say good-bye to Palatine. Buy American! Isn't it here, in America, where you enjoy your life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness (growing roses), and above all, peace.

The whole idea behind the tariff is to correct the trade imbalance, and to keep Canada from being unfair in its business dealings with the USA. What has the tariff we placed on Canada accomplished if you pay THEIR tariff? Nothing.

Palatine is charging YOU for their tariff, AND demanding your SS#, and/or tax number? Outrageous! Stand up for your country. Our National debt is destroying us...don't fuel the debt, lessen it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please!

Moses

Elena that’s good to know. I still do not understand why a Name and date of birth isn’t enough of an identifier for our government. In my email palatine did not include a custom assigned importer number as an alternative to social security or tax id number so I cancelled. I am no longer going to purchase anything from outside the US if this is a requirement which maybe is the point after all.

Dianela, Name and DOB is not a unique identification.

Nothing new here.
The question always was, and still is: Why is Palatine requiring your SS# now (in contrast to their practice in prior years)?
What is the answer? The wishy-washy “due to updated enforcement of customs procedures” borders on the evasive.

The excerpt from Palatine’s email to me…..

attached ….. reason Palatine requires our SSN or TAX ID to identify us for tax reasons-only your tax ID or SSN will do. Or cancel order.

Since Palatine requires us US customers pay the tariff, then we pay the tax tariff so, it identifies us ”to pay the tax.” Then we oay the tax (tariff) which is identified by our tax ID /SSN TO our US government. It proves we are a US cititzen, also.

Moses, Canada is our friend. Tariffs hurt our country and Canada.

Friends don't take advantage.

Moses

Exactly, Sheila. Diane

Well, this is really unhappy news. I haven't gotten an email yet. I'll call them on Monday. At this point, I don't even want to provide my SS# to any government agency. [g] I never give out my SS# and I very much wanted and was expecting to get those roses. This makes no sense. I could see paying Palatine an extra fee and they pay the tariff. It's not like the first time we've ordered from Canada and they always had to get it through customs and I was never asked for any information in order to do that. Makes no sense.

Moses,

Palatine sells their plants for considerably less than comparable vendors such as J&P, Spring Hill, Menagerie, and Grace, they are probably the most competitve online seller of large bare roots. US govt requires a phytosantary certifcate, tariff and SSN# which they cannot absorb for their base price , so are passing on to the US consumer. That seems fair to me. All these additional fees (and personal info) makes them less competitive, as illustrated by all the folks canceling their orders for increased cost and/or loss of data privacy. I’m sure they wouldnt want to implement them if not absolutely required by US govt.

Anyone who wants to purchase some US grown, free market sticker-shock can head over to Fast Growing Trees and purchase a $100 ’tarriff-free’ rosebush!

This article covers our US & Canada working relationship/ freindship for many many years. (Houzz doesn’t let me do links so you may need to look up article.) This is an intro. excerpt. it shows the US cooperating & friendship with Canada and our extensive trading with Canadaa for the past. Quite amazing! Wow! For T to try to upset so much trade is unbelievable! This governent fact sheet-article covers all types of trade goods-very extensive! We trade wiith Canada the most.of any countries which the article says ”supportts our mutual prosperity.”

FACT SHEET , from US GOVERNMENT:

Yes! Diane, Sheila, Ben!

I have no problem paying the new tariffs or any extra cost new this year to not affect palatines bottom line since their prices were so competitive anyway. The problem I have is that there is NO WAY for me to pay them the money to cover the extra expenses without having to provide my social. I do not blame Palatine in anyway they did not want to do this, it is an unfortunate side effect of being under the USDA regulations for live plants.

Fast Growing Trees has insane prices on their trees and some other stuff. A lot of common trees you can find online or at H Depot etc., for way less. I have been avoiding them. One tree nursery that surprises me lately, was TyTy Nursery. Years ago people had bad reviews of them and so I always avoided them. Well, they must have changed because someome gifted me 3 fruit trees from them. They arrived very quickly a few weeks ago: 4 ft, dormant & bare root (as stated in ad) and they included a free apple tree! They are already budding out! They are much cheaper than Fast Growing Trees. Im going to order some nut trees from TyTy soon.

I agree Canada is our friend. I dont think that has anything to do with giving up personal info to a plant company, be it Canadian or American.

I have a best friend since 4th grade..I dont know her SS# and I wouldn't even ask her for it lol! Friends don't let friends give their SS # to random plant nurseries or people on the internet. Ok bad joke but...lol

Palatine isn't doing this because they want to. Yes, maybe the roses made it through customs just fine in the past, but that was before our tyrannical, xenophobic administration imposed these new tarrifs, not to mention deporting residents with green cards.

I'm sure it's been a nightmare for Palatine to navigate the ever-changing threats of tariffs, and now the reality of their implementation. They are offering full refunds if you don't want to provide your SSN. How can you fault them for that?

I completely respect anyone who does not want to provide their SSN to Palatine, and I'd be hesitant to myself. I'd worry about a small business' database being breached. But frankly, I'm far more concerned about private citizen Musk and DOGE's efforts to access our personal Social Security data; as well as the threats to shut down Social Security. These are the things keeping me up at night. Not a much-beloved rose grower trying to navigate the nightmare of U.S.-Canadian trade at this time.

I appreciate your comment, windowsill ❤️

Some good news!

I just called Palatine and they (very graciously--they really are the nicest company) offered to go the extra mile and combine multiple US orders under a single SSN / Tax ID for rosarians who don't want to provide their SSN / Tax ID, meaning, for example, that because Palatine has importing info for me, Kitty, who doesn't live far from me, could call and move her order to mine and I could deliver or ship it to her, thereby avoiding the need for her to provide her SSN.

I know it's convoluted, but if you live close to another rosarian that you know and trust, you can reach out to them and maybe make a similar arrangement. I'm also happy to help anyone who wants to do this, provided you cover the shipping cost from NY to wherever you are.

But if you want to do this AND avoid paying tariffs by getting your rose orders shipped before 4/2, you need to call Palatine by 4pm today.

I appreciate all the input for this post! Rachel did notify me today that I could send my shipment with someone else’s address that provided their SSN. Luckily, another rose friend here in Lexington is allowing my shipment to be sent with hers. Jena Ithaca your offer is very kind to everyone allowing them to be able to receive their roses. Also, very kind of Rachel from Palatine to help us. Rose people are some of the best people. I can’t wait to see everyone’s blooms and again, thanks for all the support!

This would be great if they can ship sooner and avoid the whole thing. I've tried calling them for the last hour and it's busy. They're open today? I sent them an email requesting they ship mine now with my order number. Do I have that right?

Reinforcing, what Jena said above:

T is imposing tariffs on us-the US which imports from Canada, Mexico, China. The US customer pays! The US customer is the importer. We US customers are the importers.

(Palatine Roses, Canada, is the exporter.)

Thank you, Jena.

I just got an email back from Rachel that said 'sorry, at this time we are unable to ship across the border without providing the SS# or EIN#. If you are not comfortable wtih that, we understand and can cancel your order. *sigh* That's that.

@prairiemoon2 z6b MA - They were very accomodating and moved my ship date up to 3/31. I normally wouldn’t receive bareroots until at least mid-April but decided to take delivery early. According to their email they would be open today from 10 am to 4 pm ET. I was unable to get through Friday or early Saturday morning and thought they may be having phone issues but they were just very busy and was finally able to get through.

I don’t blame anyone for just canceling their order. I went back and forth on the matter. I also really don’t ”need” more roses but where this is Palatine’s last year and where I was fortunate enough to be on their website when ordering opened and was able to get what I wanted (that never happens!), I just couldn’t cancel my order.

So Dave, you were able to move your date, but does that mean you don't have to provide your SS# and deal with the Tariff? Because really, I never received any notice from the company that I had the option of accepting earlier delivery. I would not have known about it if I didn't see it here.

The tariff should avoided if shipped by 3/31 but you do still have to provide your SSN unfortunately.

For those who didn’t get the email:

Dear Valued Customer,

We are reaching out to inform you of an unexpected and significant change in how U.S. Customs and Border Protection is handling our rose exports. For the past 18.5 years, we have successfully shipped all U.S. orders through our freight forwarder without issue. However, as of yesterday, we have been notified that we must now list each individual U.S. buyer and provide their EIN or SSN to clear customs.

We immediately challenged this decision under Section 321 of the U.S. Border Protection Act, which allows small shipments to enter duty-free. Unfortunately, because we are exporting live plants, which fall under USDA regulations, this exemption does not apply.

We strongly believe this change is tied to the upcoming implementation of tariffs. In order to charge tariffs, customs requires the buyer’s Tax ID. With tariffs set to take effect on April 2, U.S. Customs and Border Protection is now preparing its systems to enforce this regulation. Under this process, we as the seller collect the tariffs on your behalf, forward the funds to our customs broker, who then files the necessary entry declaring which company or individual is responsible for the tariffs and ensures payment is made. For this, they need their buyer's tax ID.

We deeply regret this sudden development and the challenges it creates for you, our valued customers. At this time, we are left with only three options:

1. Cancel U.S. Orders – If you are unable to provide a Tax ID, we will have to cancel your order, or you can pick up at the farm.
2. Provide Your Tax ID—If you are willing to submit your EIN, or SSN, we can proceed with shipping as planned. Providing this information by phone is safest. Inaccurate or old tax IDs will delay your order.
3. Pick Up at the Farm – You are welcome to visit us at our farm to pick up your roses in person. Part of your shipping fee can be applied toward the required $25.00 phytosanitary certificate (phyto), and we will refund the remaining balance.

If you want to move of your current rose shipment to 03/31/25, we need your tax ID by 03/23/25 at 04:00pm. We have asked CFIA to make an exception for us and allow us to submit the plant inspection request Monday first thing for a Wednesday inspection. Moving forward, we will need your tax ID, 12 days before the shipping day.
We are staffing extra staff this weekend and opening our office hours Friday night until 8:00pm EST, and Saturday to Sunday from 10:00am - 4:00pm EST so that you can call in your information if you choose to.

We have also considered shipping from Canada via FedEx or Purolator, but we believe this option is too risky. The roses could be held at the border due to processing delays, overwhelmed brokers, or other regulatory issues. This could extend transit times beyond what is safe for the plants and past April 2, 2025.

We understand how frustrating this situation is and sincerely apologize for the inconvenience. Unfortunately, these new customs enforcement measures are beyond our control and appear to be part of broader regulatory changes at the border.

Our long-standing customers can confirm that we have always prioritized clear and transparent communication and have handled your financial and personal information with the utmost care. If you choose to entrust us with your Tax ID, please rest assured that we will take every measure to keep it safe and secure.

Would you have any questions or would like to discuss your options, please contact us as soon as possible. We truly appreciate your support and patience as we navigate these unexpected challenges and new requirements.

We are so grateful for all the years we have enjoyed sending roses to our US rose friends. We are saddened and in shock that these last five shipments will be so fraught with complications.

Now and always, your friend in roses,

I didn’t order anything from them this season, but if I do, I’ll call them to ask whether a Customs Assigned Importer Number from CBP would work and apply for it immediately.

When paying tariff/raxes, U.S. government requires a SSN or Tax ID. It’s a tax requirement. Same ID as usual Iincome taxes. Importers pay taxes to U.S. government.

Asking to ship roses before March 31 is good, before tariffs.

You can use a Customs Assigned Importer Number instead of your SSN or EIN — but only after you apply for and are assigned one by CBP via Form 5106. Once assigned, that becomes your official Importer of Record number for CBP filings.

Thanks Elena for that info.

From my perspective, I guess I didn’t understand Tariffs. It would seem that they hurt Americans as much as they do the countries the tariffs are aimed at. If we are paying the tariff, then it’s human nature not to want to increase the cost of a product by such a large percentage. So many people would change the way they buy and buy more goods inside their own country. Buy American. So it would hurt Canadians by shrinking their market. It hurts Americans by forcing them to limit their choices on what they buy. But since all of our manufacturing has moved to other countries, don’t we buy a lot of imports?

But also, if Americans are paying the tariffs, it actually is another tax.

Using a customs assigned importer number would solve one part of the problem - vendors having your number in their data base. While I really do trust Palatine to be careful with my numbers, any data base can be breached and that’s always the bottom line for me.

I have some hesitation in applying for the CAIN though and I’m not sure why, just that there’s too much uncertainty right now and too many things changing too fast.

I have enjoyed my association with Palatine and it’s sad to lose such a great company as a source of roses. I was just in the garden yesterday looking at the roses and the last rose I bought from Palatine was ‘Beverly’ and after such a cold and windy winter, it’s the end of March and there is already new growth showing all the way up the canes. And it wasn’t even mulched well! No protection.

Julia Child who I bought from Pickering also has new growth all the way up the canes.

I’ve been thinking I would like to start propagating the roses I do have and perhaps start trading with other gardeners. I hope I will have the time to do that this season. It would be fun.