Nothing like an everlasting thread--and a notification of posts made many years ago. Thought I answered kimmsr's post many years ago. Black plastic is TEMPORARY, as is the disruption of organic activity in the soil below it. Earthworms, insects, etc., are MOBILE, and all have the ability to remove themselves from the area covered by the black plastic. Everything will return to normal once you've kiiled the tree roots and REMOVED the plastic. Newspaper is NIGHT AND DAY, compared to black plastic, regarding the heat-generating ability required to kill the roots. Don't like plastic because it comes from non-renewable sources, as kimmsr declares? Use organic black plastic, made from plants. Plastics from plants will soon become all the rage, again, as the concept was YEARS ago (1940) when Henry Ford made an entire CAR from plant-origin plastics. Google "Henry Ford's plastic car". And plastic from plants are now on the market, and will become more so as we transition from fossil fuels. But common sense tells me there's no harm in temporarily placing ANY black plastic of a moderate size over the area required to kill a tree's roots. Again, (notwithstanding Steve Eubanks post about trees that cannot be covered with plastic because of other infrastructure in place, such as fences, etc.) when black plastic CAN be put in place, the heat it generates should be sufficient to kill most any plant material, including roots, beneath it. Regarding Brian Schill's latest post: It would be best if the entire tree can be cut to the ground and then the GROUND covered with black plastic, held down by staples and/or soil. I couldn't guess the amount of time required when wrapping protruding stumps with plastic.

sorry i dont have pics, i knew it would be critical, but if i didnt post last night i was afraid i would put it off, its only been been me and my dad for about 10 years now...it could be a sugar berry they look similar i need to find a better description online, if anyone has a good link that might help me. I will get us some pics soon, its a bit of a drive and its hard for me to get there in the daylight. I was wildy impressed on a recent trip, to denver, There were in fact many common hackberry growing, they looked very different that the one at home but it took all of 2 secong of close examination to see it. good ole hackberries hangin out in the high plains. It was pretty cool

I use Celtis occidentalis in Missouri with great success. I've had Hackberry, Question marks, and American Snouts all lay eggs on it. There's are some pictures and a bit more about Hackberrys in the link below. Here is a link that might be useful: Hackberrys - keeping them small

thanks for responding gianslug The viola (or lack of) were what caused me to look a bit more closely at these areas. I noticed the same small tree growing in each area - hackberry. The area around these were bare. I noticed tiarella and violets were having a difficult time Tradescantia too. - usually the violets grow well just about anywhere and I use them frequently. You'll see them around the outr edges of the area in question - but these bare spots don't seem to accommodate them well. The kind folks at the "Name that plant forum" helped with the ID. I then googled Celtis occidentalis and allelopathy, and sure enough found a few hits. I've transplanted two of the three small trees to another area of the yard - I appreciate their wildlife value, but wanted more herbaceous stuff in the area closest to the house. Rather than continue with my fruitless experimentation of what might work, I wanted to hear from others with hackberry and what works for them. if Phlox and Dicentra have worked for you, it's certainly worth a try here. At least I'll feel at bit more confident knowing that somewhere there's a Hackberry tree with some happy Phlox d. companions. thank you for your suggestions