GGG I know what you mean about small lots, that is part of the frustration in trying to achieve a curve on the side with the spillage many of us love. Token guy, I love your suggestions "containers, a bench, a tiny fountain." Sometime it pays to rethink. I used to think accessories such as that would make it too crowded. Now, I think the fountain or some med. sz'd attraction might be just the ticket to take one's eye off the long narrow shape by making you stop and notice in the middle. Midnight, I have my fingers crossed-sounds wonderful. Glad, I love the idea of 'Walker's Low.' Is it or lamium invasive to the point of killing other plants? I have always planted it in the pot. Sea, I hope you have the physical strength of the sea now. If not, at least the spiritual strength to give you courage through the tough time. I like your point and another reason to keep the concrete, but hide it for now during the summers. Nell, I had thought about breaking up the long straight path in that way too, if I understand what you are saying. I thought, briefly about taking a section out here and again to replace with something more interesting. Alas, it takes too much energy to even seriously consider. Oh tinny, you make me laugh. Long and winding paths on this lot--don't I wish. Don't you wonder sometimes what others had in mind or if they had one. Posting, that's another story. I may try again, but honestly, I find it very time consuming, probably cuz I am so lousy at it and also I need to learn from scratch, as I have forgotten. I drove everyone nuts with questions about "how to" the last time and hate to put them.,..& me through that again. gramma jan

U-shape takes up more space than an L shape which takes up more space than a straight run. Basically, adding "landings" takes space and the larger the landings are - or the more of them you have, the more space your staircase will require. BTW - I personally HATE winder stairs on either an L or a U shaped staircase. I have big feet and, even when built to code, winder-steps FEEL dangerous to me when I'm walking down them. There just never really feels like there is enough room for my feet! A U shape is nice if you want your stair case to run toward an outside wall and then double back toward the middle of the house. This lets you put a window in the lander wall which results in a nice bright stairway. Plus, because the wall between the two sections is usually left open with just a railing between them, it is usually reasonably easy to get even large pieces of furniture up and down the stair. L's work well when your stair case needs to wrap around a corner or if you want to have the bottom portion of the staircase open but then enclose the top part. For example, if you want to be able to close off the upstairs with a door, it is probably easier to do with an L-shape than with a U. An open L also looks nice from the side because of the way the lines from the upper and lower sections meet. It can be difficult to maneuver furniture up/down a closed L - especially if the staircase is only 3 ft wide. Other than those few things, if you have the room for either one, it is really just a matter of taste. Use whichever you LIKE better or whichever one fits the rest of the plan better. Or, if you can't decide, you could do like I did and incorporate BOTH. LOL! When I was trying to explain to my first architect what I wanted the stairs to do, I literally had to go out and get some foam board and make him a model before he would draw them correctly. In this pic you can see my L-turn (lower landing) and U-turn (upper landing) and on the wall you can see the light from the upper landing window that is coming thru the window even tho the window itself is hidden. FYI-The space under the upper section of staircase is open and incorporated into DH's office and we use the space under the U-landing and lower section for storage which is accessed via a half-door (about 48" tall) in the office.

Spring has sprung here in Brooklyn, so I decided it was time to leave the beach and come back to the urban jungle to build some decks...just in time to get into this little discussion. I have to say that I agree with John on most everything he has written (at least what I could understand). The anchorseal debate has been repeated many times here. Ipe is endsealed in Brazil because the decking was just milled and had a high moisture content. by the time the Ipe reaches the end user, it has dried to a more stable level. As John said, we square off both ends of each board while building, so the endseal gets removed. I choose not to reapply it, as it's messy...and of little benefit (based on Ipe deck test samples that have been in my backyard for 5+ years). dmcnstruction says that the anchorseal wax doesn't melt, but I beg to differ. Even if you paint it on like Picasso it's gonna melt in direct sun on a 90 degree day, and that stuff is gonna migrate around to the face and leave a nasty stain. I know...because I have used it in the past, but not again. Hidden fastening systems...I don't even want to go there...except to say that until a perfect system is conceived, I'll be face screwing (hehehe) my decking. Joyce, I thought you were a deck builder too...until you said you were a "simply a hands on home owner who likes to be educated in the projects that IÂm spending my husbands money on". As such, your feedback is valid, as there are alot of folks like you that come here looking for help. John and I have been building Ipe decks for many years, and although we disagree on a few techniques, between us have encyclopedic deck knowhow. if we ever teamed up, we could build some kickass decks. You, on the other hand, have learned from the guy that sold you the wood...basically a salesman. Your input as a homeowner is valuable here, but when you give advice on the internet, you have to be prepared for peer review, and possibly some criticism. anyway, I didn't mean to ramble on so long, or ruffle any feathers. just decrompressing from jet lag and culture shock. happy decking steve

See thats the thing,,a person has to learn how to work with the material and the fasteners. Bob the # 7 screws did not break off, you broke them off, they dident do anything just laying in the box by the time you got started with the #8 you had learned a few things. Guys you are not Killing Snakes, this is a woodworking project, the smart bit did not break off all by its own self the Bob just pushed it too hard and did not stop to clean it off. As a given I tried the smartbit,so did the Steve Mon, we both used it the same way with a few years of broken down knee pads behind us. Steve builds quality projects in a high $ area he can slow down and use the SB the right way, I have to move a little faster thats why I use what I use. Dont be blaming it on the tool or the fastener, if your going with # 7 screws use the #7 SB, keep in mind it wont counter sink past the decking. Slow the Helll down and learn a few things while your at it. J