I'm back. I love Ashley, but she's grafted. Diane

Ashley last October and planted in ground in June. Huge, long lasting blooms, excellent bloominess. Little scent.

Thank you all, each and everyone of you who have responded to my question. Your input is much appreciated.

Yes, Vapor is right, I no longer can drive, and also being a family of one now, just getting around and out to doctors' appointments and food shopping need to be arranged in advance. All my new rose purchases and their care essentials (tools, fertilizer, fungicides/insecticides, etc.), are all mail ordered in, everything, even last year's mulch order was ordered from Home Depot over the Internet....delivered without a hitch, too.

I literally haven't visited a public rose garden or nursery in nearly ten 10 years.

My knowledge enrichment/enlargement base is through the Internet these days.

Before I add a rose to my garden, I research it thoroughly, I mean thoroughly. If I cannot reach a satisfactory positive conclusion on a rose's reasonable expectation to do well for me under heavy black spot pressure without spraying, and survive (not necessarily to the tips, but enough live growth left come spring to at least grow forward, year by year until maturity), withstanding -5°F lows during winter without protection, I pass on it.

That's why I posted my question.

Moses

I have Morden's blush in Maine. It's done really well. I've had it for a number of years. I've never had black spot, but this is my only rose.

Ashley or Miyabi are great, my favorite , not 100% black spot free in OH like Olivia or Earth Angel for example, but a very nice choice!

I forgot to mention that my Ashley came from Grace Rose Farm last May, but is not available from them anymore unless Elena has got the latest on that. I'm amazed that Olivia is disease free in your climate, Elena. She was a wimp in our sun, and she always looked faded out, but that is not Moses' problem. And hey, Moses, I'm 79 years old, so I commiserate with your problems. We geezers need to stick together. And research is good. Now out to feed the birds. Our high today was 35F. Diane

Diane, my Olivia is growing on the north side with shade from the house. It's a nice, compact, problem-free bush, though not necessarily a must-have for everyone. I'm glad to have her in front of the house, especially since one of my other front yard roses, Perfume Factory, has such severe black spot that I'm planning to remove it.

I've also planted Thierry Marx there because of its excellent disease resistance.

I hope Moses can compromise on Miyabi not being 100% black spot resistant because it truly is a wonderful rose!

Olivia

Thierry Marx

Miyabi

Ashley

Moses,

How about Chippendale? It blooms a ton , has very beautiful coloring and form, and reputation for blackspot and hardiness is good.

My climate is too different from yours, Moses, and my whole approach to gardening is too different-perforce-from that of the majority of people on this forum, so I can't give any recommendation. But I wish you the best of luck!

Moses, here is a good video with comparison of Chippendale (right) and Augusta Louisa (left). FYI

https://youtube.com/shorts/UzvphGCK5Y0?si=xZ1c3Bo28Zsk6Ywi

Nice video Elena. Chippendale looks so much prettier than AL.

Wait a minute. My AL resents that. Diane

She is the queen of my garden. Diane

Diane, yours truly is the best I have seen on AL. However, I have seen a lot of neon orange ones like the one in the video and I'm not a fan of that color. So I have to skip it 😭

Moses, I'm in Pennsylvania and I highly recommend Spirit of Freedom, if you can grab that on Etsy. Very vigorous, very cold hardy, and very disease resistant. She holds up to heat really well too and the repeat is very good. She really likes it here

I have Ashley and Augusta Luise, but mine are very young and this is their first winter so I can't say how cold hardy they are or if my observations on disease resistance are worth even mentioning since they're so young. The Ashley I was sent was a dormant rose sent very late in the season and she struggled to wake up for me, what was there did not get any blackspot. Didn't grow much but she had such a bad start I don't think it's fair to judge her on that. She has not had any die back yet from the cold. Augusta Luise did have a moderate amount of blackspot. No die back yet from the cold. Hope that helps

Miyabi I've heard is not very blackspot resistant - I did order it to come this spring and would be happy to let you know how it does here over the summer.

I also really like AUSjameson/Juliet, but this is it's first winter so I have no clue how cold hardy it is. It is one of (if not the) most healthy roses in my garden. Great vase life, flowers last a long time on the bush. Very vigorous and loves the heat. It is very upright though, not many thorns. I really like it and would be happy to let you know how it faired our first winter. We get down to 6 degrees tomorrow night

What I heard is Thierry Marx is extremely easy to get sun burned. Not heat resistant at all. Petals are very thin. I have a cutting from a friend, but not sure if I really want to plant it in the ground.

I'm looking for Chippendale. Probably the only one I want from all Etsy roses.

Moses, this season, I have two WOW roses: Miyabi and Constance. However, I haven't spent enough time growing Constance to confidently recommend her yet. In previous seasons, my two WOW roses were Ashley and Augusta. I've ordered several potential WOWs for this season, so we'll see how they turn out!

Have you had a chance to check out Ben's channel? He showcases all the WOW roses there:
https://youtu.be/FnPppY-IYE4?si=GAcgbTRA2glvyyQZ

Elena, yes I have gone to Ben's video, more than once. Couldn't stop crying for the beauty I beheld. We have a Rosarian's Rosarian among us, indeed. I found Ben's Moonlight in Paris mezmerizing!

Moses, absolutely, Ben's Moonlight in Paris is just unreal!

Eisvogel is new to me from Ergonzi . I am in a very different zone fom you but it has proven to beca healthy, hesrty rose

Moses I have no advice as I am afraid all of those fancy roses will be black spot magnets. If you find one that does well for you I would love to try it also. Let me know how it goes.

Daniela, as I start my research on Miyobi and Thierry Marx it doesn't look good for them.

I garden where black spot and Rose Midge Fly are intense.

I'm tired of giving highly praised new (to me, and/or new to commerce), roses to find they just don't work out for me.

#1 is the dreaded black spot. I promise myself never to even think about trying a new rose again that has even the tiniest report on black spot susceptibility. Powdery mildew and downy mildew are not as lethal here, except for PM outbreaks when days are hot, nights are cool, and there is no rain, which occur infrequently. Downy mildew just comes and goes, no great damage done. Black spot has no mercy, every year, regardless of weather conditions, it defoliates aggressively. Those roses with no resistance don't stand a chance.

Insects are really not a big problem except for Rose Midge Fly. For RMF I must spray. Aphids and cabbage butterfly caterpillars get zapped when I spray for RMF. Usually, a one time spray with Tetra San in July knocks down any spider mite infestation very effectively.

Rose breeders have made tremendous strides with breeding for black spot resistance, thank G-d. Insect resistance is evidently much more difficult to breed into roses. Maybe one day there will be insect resistant roses. That would be quite a marvel.

Rose breeders have made tremendous strides with breeding for black spot resistance, thank G-d. Insect resistance is evidently much more difficult to breed into roses. Maybe one day there will be insect resisesistant roses. That would be quite a marvel.

esistant roses. That would be quite a marvel.esistant roses. That would be quite a marvel.

Moses

Moses, I think that with such severe weather your population of Rose midges will shrink.

Doesn't rose midge overwinter in the soil?

yes, unfortunately, as well as thrips, but -10F might kill a lot of them.

Temperatures below 14°F are critical for reducing rose midge populations, with 5°F or lower being more reliably lethal. However, environmental factors like snow cover and soil depth play a significant role in their survival.

They have a special cocoon for winter. I haven't personally seen much change with our cold wind chills and cold temperatures of the past couple of years thiso, Unfortunately. I suppose the snow Further protects them. Perhaps it pushes back the 1st date of their appearance But I can't imagine why. I've recently had theit 1st appearance with the 1st flush.

I didn’t have them during the first flush last year, and the quantity before the next one was manageable. I don’t attribute this to the winter temperature, as last winter was mostly warm, as far as I recall.

PS. Winter 2024 in Cincinnati was milder than average, with an average temperature of 38.4°F, ranking it among the top ten warmest winters on record for the city.

Last winter we had Cold spell with very Harsh winds. But not as bad as the winter before. Yes the rest of the winter was not bad but I have found that it is the coldest temperatures that Determine Many things in my garden. It was -8 last year. That is the low. I keep track of the low every year and the lowest wind also. I think the low was the same the year before but we had much colder wind chill. However you live on a big hill so your mileage maybe vary! LOL! This year We have had more prolonged cold although our night time lows have not been as low as last year and that before. We have also had a long. With snow cover compared to other years so it will be interesting to see how this affects our gardens. In spring and summer. I'm sure you take better care of your garden than I do Elena!

Diane, I don't think even the growers and people who make rose catalogues can grow roses that look like yours! I've given up, actually. Now that I'm not holding you up as the pinnacle to which I must aspire I should rest easier at night! ;-)

Moses -- others have said this already, but it bears repeating. The roses you'll get from Etsy sellers are probably small own-roots, which will take them a while to really take-off for you. There are some exceptions. Constance and Eisvogel have been exceptionally vigorous on their own roots, and I've planted them out in my garden in the last week (after being in pots for the last 8 months). In terms of health and repeat blooms, Constance has been a real show-stopper. I have high hopes for her in the garden this year. I can't really comment on black spot, as that's not usually a big deal where I garden. Though the last 2 years have challenged even my healthiest roses -- we get May Gray and June Gloom -- the marine layer just parks over us nearly all morning, and sometimes all day. The last 2 years we got it so bad we went days without sunshine and a constant drip of moisture. Only the snails and slugs enjoyed it. It was depressing. And some super healthy roses succumbed to balling, a few even got black spot. But the most challenging -- RUST. crazy rust, on usually spotless roses. Constance did very well. Another one that did well, but so far does nod -- weak necks, young plant -- is the Yves Jardin Parfum -- or garden perfume -- supposedly a Japanese rose, but not in HMF.

You might want to contact Burling Leong of Burlington Roses and ask for Connie's Sandstorm (unbelievably healthy, no nodding) or Marion Ross...and Burling's a reputable seller who breeds roses and gets the plant inspections done for shipping, too. Just my two cents! Good luck to you.

Elena: that’s (14°F/5°F) good to know about midge.

Can you provide a reference for that? Thank you.

• Lee, R. E. (2010). Insects at Low Temperature. Springer Science & Business Media.
• Denlinger, D. L., & Lee, R. E. (2010). Low Temperature Biology of Insects. Cambridge University Press.

Deborah, can you clue me in on the bush shape and approximate size of Constance? I have a spot open that I’d love to give to her.

Deborah, you have the May Gray and June Gloom. We have The Inversion. Imagine the smog of the San Fernando Valley moving en masse to the Boise Valley, this year in November and often in February. You can cut this smog with a knife, but it builds beautiful hoarfrost. Thank you about my roses. You are too kind. Diane

November 2024

Elena, Do you have a page number for those references? It's like 350 pages which is Too much for me to read.

I think Constance is supposed to be about 3x3…

Very droll, Vaporvac.

Judi,

I’d think I’d plan for 4x4 or 4x5 for Constance, I made a video of my relatively young plant, the shape is very nice

Vaporvac, I am assuming that you have an access to electronic versions. Just type in search or look at the index for key words : "mortality," "soil temperature," "winter survival," or "freezing tolerance." Good luck and always at your service..

Thank you, Elena. I actually did do an internal search, but could find nothing about rose midge specifically. I'm really only interested as I remember when talking to some folks who study RM at OSU, learning that they made a special Winter cocoon that was viable to very low sub-zero temps. I thought it was around -20, but can't find a reference for that. I suppose it doesn't really matter too much in the end. Do you take any specific action for your midge?

Vapor, if you're in touch with the OSU folks, you might know more about midges than I do. I'll stick to the same routine I described in details in other place that you're familiar with.

Rise midge, another pest that has not crossed the Rockies and must hate the desert. Others that haven't made it are RRD, Chili Thrips, and Japanese beetles. Diane

Thank you, Ben! That’s very helpful.. Yours is absolutely gorgeous. Now, I need to decide whether or not I actually get one.

Winter, no matter how severe, has not made a bit of difference to the survivability of Rose Midge Fly in my garden. It's the same every year since I switched to roses from perennials many years ago.

Moses

Diane, alas, Chili Thrips are common in many hot Calif. areas. I haven't experienced them, but have read of many here in Calif. who have :(

Diane, I do think that midge don't like dry as much as rain. We have a lot of rain here!

Ben -- thanks for your comprehensive video footage of Constance! I hope mine grows up to 4x4 and has as many blooms as yours!

Susan, i wasn't thinking properly. I knew chili thrips were in Socal years ago. We had another Sultry on the forum who dealt with those pests then. She was on the seasonal forum back in the teens, about 2016, when this thread first began--I started it with "Hotter Than a Habanero...How About You?" in the summer of 2016. Diane