Leo, I would add, with your laminated drawing, WRITE out the details - like where the drawer pulls should go on the drawers (ie, top rail or middle of drawer face?) - as much as you can, particularly things that you think are hard to discern on the drawing or are open to interpretation. Best if you can spend 15-20 minutes with the contractor and the crew lead going over the plan to discuss those details (that is likely all the time he will be willing to spend...)

RE: sink. I have a smaller kitchen though not quite as small as yours. I have a 30" sink base with a Blanco 28" Stellar medium sink undermounted. The sink fits nicely (followed Joe Corlett's advice to insist on the Hercules sink harness to secure the sink - the installers had never heard of that device (see it here). It is plenty roomy. I have one of those inexpensive dish drainers to sit across it - it rolls up when I need it out of the way.

In the 30" cabinet I have a disposal, soap dispenser bottle, a waste can, a recycling can, a small compost bin, and miscellaneous items like dish detergents, sponges, cleanser etc. Those items rest on 2 rollout trays, and I have a slim pullout bin that attached to one side of the cabinet that hold some other essentials (like, extension cord, measuring tape, & flashlight)

The dishwasher is immediately adjacent to the sink, no problem with that (some one above mentioned needing a cabinet in between - you do not).

For my 2 person family (myself and a teenager) a 30 wide (18 CF, IIRC) refrigerator has been very sufficient. One thing that I figured out is that I didn't need an ice maker - it wastes room - and that a standard door rather than a french door design also has a bit more storage capacity.

I agree that an smaller dishwasher would be a wise choice.

Hope that helps.

Also, if you have found that the cabinets that the contractor will use are not suitable (or reasonable), due to cost or quality, and that the Ikea cabinets are suitable .... perhaps you can reach an agreement with the contractor about amending the contract to have you supply and have the cabinets installed by an Ikea specialist (recommended to you already) while he performs the rest of the work - for a reduced fee. I know that you have sent the contract to Jan for review and I trust that she is discussing with you what your options may be. I know that in my locale many contractors would be willing to revise the scope of work, but perhaps not so in your region.

Oh dear Leo, please tell me they have not gutted your bathroom already too!

Are you allowed to change the toilet location? We are not. Do you have to get bathroom layout plans approved by your building and are you sure either of those would be approved?

You had mentioned some aging in place ideas previously - which I always think is a prudent way to go if you are over 50! Plan B allows you nowhere to place a toilet grab bar should you ever want to install one.

In either plan, I would want the water knobs (it is late and my brain is fried so excuse that I cannot find the words, but you know what I mean by water knobs) to be on the far side of the tub away from the toilet or away from the vanity. It is a falling hazard to have to lean over either to have to turn on the water and adjust the temp.

Can you really decide to put plumbing and drains anywhere you wish? And of course layout that deviates from what is already existing plumbing could add in costs and could necessitate pulling more permits from DOB.

Does the W/D in plan B really fit was you have it drawn?

Are lucky enough to have a studio apartment down the hall from our two bedroom. We use it as an office / guest room. We converted the kitchen to a laundry room/kitchenette. While our coop prohibits venting a range hood out of a window, they let us vent a dryer out the window. I have no idea why but I shut my mouth and said thank you! I have a stackable LG washtower and am in love with it. As you sure you are not allowed to vent a dryer out a window?

@ Leo

Regarding the BATH

You need a drawing of EXACTLY where the potty is , right now. The center of that toilet is the soil pipe. I can almost guarantee you it is the one element in that bath that will be unable to move.

I'm assuming there is someone below/above you, and I'll guarantee their potty is in an identical location.

Does it look like this right now?? Or something else?

Do a drawing as you did above, showing exactly where everything is OR WAS ....before or during the bomb of demo.

If the bath is demolished? The soil pipe is still there. The drain for the vanity is still there. where is the water for the tub and its drain? Baths are pound for pound....more expensive to alter than a kitchen and you are already freaking over that cost? Or ARE you?!! not really all that concerned?

If you want my advice?

Forget the idea of a ventless washer and dryer in this BATH, which I will assume to be the only bath?

Have a nice size SHOWER ( do you want to climb over a tub side? Do you bathe or shower ), a vanity and even a linen closet.

You mentioned there are concrete walls? ( regarding entrance to the kitchen. Are you sure you didn't mean PLASTER? I really doubt interior walls are concrete.

When this is all over? Get yourself a weekly cleaning person, who will also SCHLEP below the sidewalk do your LAUNDRY- assumed to be currently in the basement. No I am NOT kidding. It is NYC.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

From your contract, and this is STANDARD diatribe for any project, anywhere! not necessarily yours, as to toilet:

"Toilet elements: 1

Toilet drain" Install toilet flange at floor level, and up to 10 ft. of properly sloped drain line to existing main drain connection.Secure and leak test. Route inwall/ under floor only.

Toilet:Fit and secure new toilet, connect to existing water supply and leak test.Toilet seat:Place and secure new toilet seat. Verify proper alignment on bowl. Wax ring: Seat wax ring, Replace, level and secure fixture. Leak test.

_________________________________________________

To all posters jumping in late to the "party" : )

If you are on an I phone..... load ALL the comments, every single one and read ALL the comments. There are 267 ish.

As to a SINK. He has a sink. It fits in a 24 " cabinet, allowing more storage next to it. AND a 24" dishwasher. Or? He chose something else and should advise.

Toe kick under a cabinet.......

He has a choice of two cabinet companies, Neither are what you would call CUSTOM or high end.

This is NYC -unlike the suburbs. Garbage disposals are virtually NON EXISTENT.

He has appliance suggestions for a couple "that cook a lot"

and he is sooooooooo far from any decision as to where to locate drawer pulls, it is a JOKE. He is what we usually call......IN THE HIGH WEEDS.

PS........ From contract...your 50% down and the high weeds?

This:

"10% at contract signing , 40% at beginning of job" and broken into 20/20/5/5 etc thru inspections.

- Commencing work ,which meant apparently, when he showed up with a sledgehammer and a dumpster at the curb. : ( and rendered you homeless through the holidays with nary a selection). He should be beaten to death.

Jan, you really are being so helpful here--it's no wonder Leo gave you such a glowing review. No one else on Houzz would do so much work gratis for a stranger on the internet. You are exhibiting the true spirit of giving in this Christmas season.

It makes one ask, ARE there any truly wonderful, honest contractors out there? Indeed there are. They are so good, they are booked out 18 months.

Every blessed thing we love costs more than we'd love to pay. But when it comes to these two very unforgiving rooms which are kitchen and bath?

Begin at least with a vetted/ competent interior designer. Why? Because that person has access to others - including a kitchen /bath designer, a contractor. ...and will see both spaces in the full context of your whole home.

You can't "afford" him or her?

One question for you: You can "afford" what this thread represents?

I shall name you........"Intrepid Maximus."

Year: 2014

I am headed out of town , big distance and upon return, will gut a primary bath and overhaul a primary bed.

Contractor,.......I can start it _date______!!!

No. You will NOT start then. We will start with getting this woman a place to sleep and live grooming/dressing life in this house, while you do the Primary.

WHICH means......the new engineered wood floor in hall and into guest bedroom must go down first. Then ? You seal yourself and the mess and the dust into that primary suite ( getting new wall to wall carpet ).

Screams.." I can't do that!

Why?

Because the floor has to run ALL THE WAY FROM HERE TO HERE IN THE HALLWAY AND THE BOARDS WILL ....................!

Are you an idiot?!!!! Turn the FLOOR board......here, and here!!! SEE? Do you think I want ninety darn miles unbroken floor with no definition at openings??

We will move her, lock stock and barrel out of that primary.

.....AND ALL IS WELL THAT ENDS WELL.

Interior Design Work · More Info

Interior Design Work · More Info

Interior Design Work · More Info

Interior Design Work · More Info

Back to the washer dryer issue?

This is about the only way I would do it. You NEED to think through the tub issue. You need reasonably comfortable clearances, and they must meet code.

You are not 30 years old, and you need room to move.

Even this would ASSUME you can move the toilet.

A toilet needs 15" center soil t a solid wall, or other

It needs MINIMUM 2' in front and more is a lot better.

Anything less than 24 inches in front of a vanity is a joke, and uncomfortable.

( Your A plan??)

30 INCHES WALL TO TOILET FRONT PLUS 28" COMFORT....= 58"

PLUS

27 AND FILLER INCHES WIDTH FOR A WEENY VANITY..... 28"

32 INCHES TUB WIDTH

EQUALS 58/28 /32 AND THERE'S YOUR 118""

You asked as to toilet rough in......

Leo - I've been away from Houzz for a little bit - I just read through your kitchen thread today.

The following is for information purposes only - I am not licensed in the State of New York and am not providing legal advice.

I quickly read the applicable statutes related to home improvement work in NY. There are very specific provisions required in every contract (in excess of $500) - including detailed information with respect to the materials to be used to complete the work.

Also, NY requires that any money paid is either (i) held in escrow (+ include the bank where the escrow account is located), or (ii) covered by a bond. The contract must specify which of the two will be used to protect the homeowner's money.

There are other provisions - I am curious as to why the two cabinet lines were not specified in your contract?

I am concerned about other provisions that may not have been included in your contract.

Because you gave your contractor no plan upon which to base his labor and materials, I presume he intends to replace like with like and in the same location for your bathroom and that deviation will require a change order for which you will be charged for the extra labor and materials PLUS a change order fee. Jan can comment more as she has your actual contract.

Get clear on this. The drawings you are cooking up may involve costs you can't yet imagine because you are looking at and thinking about fixtures in your drawings instead of looking at and thinking about where pipes and drains run from the apartment above yours and to the apartment below yours.

Here is an example:

To change our tub to a shower would have necessitated that we move the drain 6". This would have cost an additional $3k above what was already in our contract because that area of pipe could not be accessed from our apartment. They would have had to open the ceiling in the apartment below, move the pipe, then repair the ceiling. None of that $3k included any materials to build our actual shower. That was mere $3k to move the drain pipe 6". We didn't end up doing it for other reasons, but you can see how playing tetris with fixtures can get expensive.

Also, there can be all kinds of hidden surprises in 90 year old walls. When we opened our wall, a part of the drain pipe just crumbled apart. How this pipe had not caused a major leak previously is astounding. That only cost an extra $1,500! Just know there can be hidden expenses in your walls.

I'll disagree with Jan on the washer/dryer. I'd move heaven and earth to get one in your bathroom!

There are very specific provisions required in every contract...

Yep, but provisions and requirements are only as good as enforcement necessitates. I highly doubt that all NY contractors are following those requirements. I agree that his contractor is worrisome, but he has got Leo over a barrel now so I think this is a make it work moment!

We need to pretend Leo is building BRAND NEW with the most limited choices possible. ......

He has not got control over the "design aspect",; that is the contractor "package" ......and any and all changes to the easiest/replacement situation will involve dollars.

From Dani

"There are other provisions - I am curious as to why the two cabinet lines were not specified in your contract?

I am concerned about other provisions that may not have been included in your contract. "

The contract is non specific, it is basically an easy to print a thousand times multi page, no different than a lease.

Location could be anywhere. No different than a spec builder handing you the "A package DEAL only", but without specifics to your lot #. :?

Oy, that bad? A totally non-specific contract and just verbally limiting him to using two cabinet lines that the contractor is marking up willy nilly? Leo would have great recourse to break the contract, however, who has the money to legally challenge a brutish contractor, and who has the time when they have dismantled your home already? This contractor is scum Leo. You are not alone. Folks get scammed by scum like this all of the time. You just happened to be posting about it.

Intrepid Maximus Leo reporting for duty! Traveling now to visit family and took the computer out in the airport to check messages - wow! So many new messages. Thanks for all your help and advice! We are deeply moved by your kindness and concerns.
It is our own ignorance that made things harder than it needs to be - but we are blessed to learning so much. Will read more carefully and write back when we land… Wishing you a peaceful and joyful night. We are so blessed!

Truly, this is the thread anyone considering a remodel should read. It’s a fabulous tutorial on what, and what not, to do. Bravo and carry on!

@LeoBlur

@Kendrah Trying to keep the thread in NOTIFICATIONS.

Type any old thing in the comments and keep your thread ALIVE - as Houzz dig was in order to even find it again, despite a bookmark

Following....very interesting storyline here, AND great info!

Yes, a VERY interesting thread, indeed.

Not sure where Leo has vaporized, may even still be on a longer Xmas holiday or even out of country and a limited internet access.

Whatever!!,.... we'll hope he returns with an update to his plight,

Thanks for keeping this alive Jan. I hope @Leo Blur returns with updates on his adventures!

I'm beginning to think he got overwhelmed..... was afraid of "bothering" us or something. There is no way he didn't read my thank you email or the WHERE ARE YOU LEO?? email.

Trepid Leo reporting back. Really very sorry for being away charging at more windmills during the holidays.
Just got back and catching up.
Thanks so much Jan and Kendrah and friends for all the great advice!!!

raee_gw zone 5b-6a Ohio - thank you so much for sharing your 30 inch cabinet content - very helpful.

-- Jan did some beautiful drawings and we would love to go with her design (scroll back to see) - we are now trying to figure out what to do with the corner?

• option 1 is to “void” the corner to get drawers (leaving corner inaccessible)
• option 2 to keep it “blind” and install something like a Hafele magic corner 2 to utilize the space?

Any thoughts?

Oh dear Kendrah, yes we gutted it - no guts - no glory... Like Jan said - I belong to a species of Intrepid Maximus Idiotus Leotus.

Yes Kendrah, you are right as always! we must submit layout to condo board for approval and cannot put plumbing and drains anywhere we wish.

Wow. You are lucky to have the foresight to get a studio for laundry. We are packing this baby elephant right into the trunk. You are also very lucky with the washer dryer vent! We can’t vent out anywhere as it destroy the facade… we inhale exhaust for the beautiful facade like a true city dweller.

Jan - how did you know - mind read? It’s exactly like your drawing. We learned so much from you and would love more advice!

But we are greedy - we really do want a tub and washer dryer… In the high weeds… thats the natural habitat for intrepidus maximus stupidus leotus (such a noble title)!

Well said Diana Bier Interiors LLC! We are so grateful

Jan - I think you solved the dilemma again! You came up with the best way to maximize space - ingenious!

Can we substitute the shower with the tub?

I don’t know how it would look and if it is possible to have sliding glass door for the tub and another pane of glass on the side where the sink is? (If no glass it would feel too closed in).
We can get rid of the entry door for a sliding door.

What do you think?

Welcome dani_m08. Really appreciate for your good advice.

Kendrah. You are always ahead of the game - like you are in our parallel universe! Thank you so much for sharing so we don’t feel alone. 90 year old walls are full of fun surprises… like a box of melted moldy chocolate… you know every piece will give you some exotic probiotics!

Completely agree with you about moving heaven and earth and the toilet (which maybe harder…) to get the washer and dryer!

Welcome seagreen3. Thank you for summarizing it so well and for your kind encouragement.

Do not do what we do, but learn from Jan and Kendrah and all the others who so kindly share their experience here. A tough road is always better traveled with great company!

Welcome Mary Elizabeth.

So as we look at Jan’s great design - here are a few options we will provide the condo board in case of pluming location limitations. Can you please help to see what are the pro and cons of each layout?

Of course we love original plan A best.

But if not possible, what other plan?

Plan b-

Sorry hit sent before completed. Last drawing was plan A - Jan’s great original design - exchanged with tub and sliding door.

Here is plan B without moving toilet. Cut from Jan’s drawing since I just can’t draw.

This is plan C. Moving tub to window! Radical but…

Plan D. Washer dryer in middle.

Plan E. Vanity in middle/ washer dryer in corner/tub to left

I’m sorry Jan for playing Tetris with your great design to appease the power that be who rules the condo realm…

Can we please get your ranking in order of best flow to worst flow from plan A to E, especially IF plan A does not work out? (The clearance needed to open the washer door is about 18 inches)

Thank you all so much for coming along on this adventurous journey!

Leo, I'm so thrilled you are alive and back cracking me up. I'm too tired look at your Jan collage but will do so tomorrow.

1. Do you have a magical super? I do. He's worked here for 30 years, knows every unit in the building, where every pipe runs. I slipped him some cash to brainstorm bathroom and washer dryer layouts with me. We ran through all sorts of ideas and he was able to tell me the practical implications of what was feasible, would be a lot of extra work or easy, whether he'd been in an apartment before that had a similar renovation and if it ended up work or not. Would your super be of assistance in giving you a hell yes or hell no and here's why to any of your A - E schemes?

2. Prior to asking your coop for permission, I'd try to narrow things down a bit with your contractor too. Will each of the A - E plans cost the same amount? Are they covered by the price you've agreed on and put 50% down on or would you be looking at a costly change order.

3. Lastly, for fun, a reminder of why simple is best - because you never know when you are going to open a wall and find a rusted busted pipe that needs to be replaced and costs you $1,000 more than what you were bargaining for. Here's to budgeting 10% more than you think you will need for a bathroom. (If you think kitchens are hard, bathrooms are even less fun.)

To the TETRIS BATH issue:

You must do these things

Stop wasting time.

Get contractor WITH you in the bathroom.

DETERMINE what can move. IT IS GUTTED. There is an exposed soil pipe, and water lines.

You must know WHAT can move and to WHERE. And he needs to draw that for you, and note the inches/HOW far from the wall exactly a drain or a soil pipe. It is a pointless endeavor to IF/IF/IF the bath, which would include .....can you steal inches from the bedroom, where IS the bedroom, it's a "hall bath" and wth is in front of it, behind it, next to it?

Your bath was this before gut?

But you want a w/d in it. I said......"this is the only way I would do it. But Sue has a bad back, likes a tub. What about you?

Do you have a house cleaner. The laundry is in the basement? Or requires a trip to a laundromat? WHICH? BECAUSE....before I would sacrifice a safe bath, and clearances, and storage? I'd hire out the task. Failing that? I said......I would do as below, or NOT do!

Tub or shower is up to you, but. I must ask how LONG, each of you wants to climb over a tub ledge for a shower? A SINGLE fall can make that nearly impossible.

That is why I gave u this below.....

Want to TETRIS THE DRAWING? DO AS all listed above WITH the plumber!!

You're not going to be living in this joint, without a KITCHEN and a bathroom.....let alone soon.

I will return re......the dreaded kitchen

Kendrah, so glad we can make you laugh! We have to laugh ourselves as it’s the best medicine for our stupidity. Thank you so much for looking at the Tetris mangled layout of Jan’s beautiful design. We didn’t have the heart to cut into a photo copy but it’s make it work moment as you say. Excellent points you make:

1. Yes we do have a magical super who is really good - reason our place held up so long - he suggested we try all these configurations. He thinks as long as the condo board approves, these configurations are all possible.

We would love opinion on pros and cons of each?
It’s an interesting puzzle as Jan say - good opportunity to teach others how to prioritize. Like you, we prioritized W/D (door clearance 18 in) and must live with the consequences.

2. Yes, definitely - we want to be prepared to show the design that makes the best functional flow so to not waste plumbers consultation cost - that’s extra charge so we want to make sure we ask the right questions.

3. Wow thanks for sharing the pipes pics… looks like a jail break gone awry… stupidus maximus would say “at least you have your health”… “at least it’s not asbestos or mold… “ We initially thought kitchen was tougher but we learn now… thank you so much

Pick the POISONS ONCE AND FOR ALL, ?

Apparently, someone involved NYC FAVORS a corner sink and dw tripping over convenience and the person isn't the op : )

We can not have everything. The wash up aspect of any meal prep is not an arduous task unless!! it is poorly placed, hard to access.

I have stolen inches below. From where?

3" from the kitchen entry

6" from the dishwasher. Why? Because there simply ISN'T a huge difference in what they hold. You can run it twice a day if you like!

24" inch sink cab and an undermount sink 18" x 19" x 9"

I know I would FAR rather have a 30" drawer, or even 24" which depending back issues/ arthritis can hold all the dinnerware, or pots and pans.

Leo must give the "not on site" kd in NYC....the final and firm selections for: (as I am not sure where we left off pre Christmas).

sink

dw

30inch range

fridge...

micro

Or have a smaller drawer base. the WALLS are the walls.

You MUST have a 24 inch DW? You get a 24" drawer base,

The entry is a zero issue of 3"--------

We've taken the cumbersome/loathsome fridge to the opposite side.

Jan, Thank you so much for not being upset with us for our unlicensed use of your original art. We love your drawings. You drew it exactly right - BR - the window is about 20in from corner and it is 27 inches wide (not measuring diagonally like the sink:) - yes the toilet will be in front of this window in your design.

• only issue is if the toilet can be moved this far. So we need a second and third option. since we are not thinking too well at the moment… or any moment … so next best options?

House cleaners… at this rate we’d be cleaning someone else’s house …. and doing their laundry … but it will be a joy to repay the kindness of everyone here.

Great point about climbing into the shower! We did not think of that- thought about taking lessons to be a kangaroo and hop right in! But what about a tub like this?
Not this particular one but something like this as nifty google suggested? Anyone better suggestion for a tub that opens on the side if this configuration is possible?

So glad @Jan Moyer found the thread and @Leo Blur, you are back! I think there was a discussion re these types of tubs a while back. I remember something about needing a “quick drain” so the person bathing isn’t sitting for long (shivering?) waiting to open the door to get out.

LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION

Forget plumbing consultation costs. I'm talking about certain configurations taking days more to accomplish and costing many thousands of dollars more. This is why it is ALWAYS less expensive to replace like with like and not move bathroom fixtures.

NOTHING about figuring out an apartment bathroom is confined to your bathroom. So for each of the A-E configurations you have there is the question of how does waste and water get into and out of that location from the apartment above and below. It is so much more complex than just looking at your four walls.

Grill the hell out of your super. I don't believe anything works well. He should know what was accepted or rejected by your board. What is a ludicris idea. Whose unit flooded when a dummy did to their bathroom to get a washing machine in there.

Search your address on zillow to see sold and for sale pics of other bathrooms in your line. Are toilets in other locations, tubs in other directions, washers jammed in somewhere?

How many neighbors have washers and where did they put them? Survey and start making friends with folks in your building to find out.

(My upstairs neighbor tackled a tricky bathroom shower window issue in a way that I wanted to ... until I saw theirs and realized hell no! And the super confirmed that what they did wasn't working out well either.)

ARTHRITIS AND TUBS

I got the lowest tub possible for the guest bathroom my parents use because of knee arthritis. We put a vertical grab bar at the entrance so they can hold on to it and lift one foot 14" over the edge and then the other to step in and out for showers. (I reflexivly grab for the grab bar now that it is there too!)

If a person cannot lift their leg 14", won't they have a hell of a time getting up and down from a seated position on the floor of a tub anyway? A person who has to walk through that little gateway door in the tub you posted, are they going to be able easy all of their body weight down and up to the floor of the tub? I think not. So for this reason, I'd skip the tub with a door and just get low tub. Our new kohler cast iron tub is 14", easy to find, not too expensive as far as tubs go.

How high is the edge of your current tub?

Here's death trap that was our tub and shower when we bought the studio.

The 14" tub we installed instead. (It is much longer, this picture obscures the size.)

The vertical entrance bars. (Nice and fat bars for arthritic hands).

How it all disappears when the curtain is closed!

Jan - thanks so much for new drawing! You are too fast - I just realized you did another. Did you move the door? Not going near that one - too costly likely…but definitely love this layout for kitchen!

To pick the poison - yes, we did our homework you assigned on appliances - the 18 inch dish washer is a bit different than the 24 full size… feels a bit smaller especially for pots etc. And we are lazy. We hate emptying dish washer more than once a day- terrible aren’t we… Also if we are cutting cost we can still use the old 24 in dish washer too.

Issue now is what happens to the wall corner cabinet? Is there a voided corner too or anyway to use the wall cabinet corner?

Until we did this we Never realized how clever a kitchen designer must be to utilize the corner space- it is a math/geometry problem… thanks for the lesson.

Welcome elunia. Thanks for the good tip about tub. Where was that discussion? Can you kindly send? We didn’t plan for a walk in tub but I found one that we don’t have to jump in as Jan suggested…

Kendrah - thanks so much for sharing your guest bath. Really like how you utilized recessed wall space and the shower bar placements - the hardware are very nice too- what are they?

Stupidus max strikes again - never measured shower height until they took it way demo so not sure… but will look at 14 inches tubs.

Your tub/shower is near the window - is that an issue with moisture? We ask as that’s one of the potential layout.

Sorry to ask you and everyone here but can you pick the top 2 design from A-E- realize none is ideal but we are stuffing the elephant into the 18 inch dish washer … not much choice.

Our poor super is pretty grilled - I would say crispy in and out. He was a plumber and think the folks have done every way he suggested and it’s personal preference. So he thinks all plans are doable- contractor cannot price out all configurations but only 2-3…

I am the only one privy to the emails..................

You, yes you Leo, ARE THE ONE PAYING FOR THE CHANGES

" the super said we can do what we want".

"the contractor will price 2 OR BATH options......there are not 2/3 options if you plan to FIT into the bathroom and Sue must have a tub. If someone has done same? Go get a picture and tell us what w/d they used, in the same size bathroom.Or maybe you want to brush your teeth, shave , wash hands in the TUB?

WHAT IS THE MODEL # , MAKE ETC AND SPECS OF THE WASHER/DRYER YOU PLAN TO USE?

AGAIN........as to the kitchen. Look at the inches and what I said and ......pay attention???

Note _ I care LESS about a void of a lower corner. If you are too lazy to empty an 18" dishwasher? Too lazy to wash a pot and not waste space in a dishwasher stuffing in a pot? Then it shall follow that you aren't digging under the voided corner , into a lazy anything for the salad spinner.....right?

Put these words with the drawing just above. Get the "designer/contractor" into the gutted kitchen and tape it/chalk it on the FLOOR. Tell him I am getting annoyed.........?

I have stolen inches below. From where?

3" from the kitchen entry ( smaller , not bigger )

6" from the dishwasher. Why? Because there simply ISN'T a huge difference in what they hold. You can run it twice a day if you like!

24" inch sink cab and an under mount sink 18" x 19" x 9"

and last........

Most important?*********

I know I would FAR rather have a 30" drawer, or even 24" which depending back issues/ arthritis that can hold all the dinnerware, or most of your pots and pans. ( the ones you W.A.S .H. E. D IN THE s.i.n.k )

Or I have lost my mind................? : )

Bathroom

Leo, I don't want to muse about your A - E bathroom drawings or any other configuration unless it is something realistic. Tell us what make and model of washer/dryer you intend to use INCLUDING THE CLEARANCES ON THE SPEC so we know the exact measurements. You cannot play tetris with imaginary objects and turn it into a real bathroom.

IF this would fit, and IF you confirm that Jan's drawing of your bathroom is accurate, then I would try to leave all plumbing where it is currently located. I'd fit in a small vanity next to the toilet and the W/D to the right of it. Add a countertop over the W/D that makes the small vanity have some more counter space next to it.

In my mind and if this is feasible, this comes very close to replacing like with like and will save you a TON of money by not having to relocate plumbing and could make the condo board happier because you are not tinkering too much with relocation.

Here's a bastardized image of what I'm thinking.

Here are some inspiration pics of sinks with washer dyer next to them.

#1 - Custom and ridiculously beyond your budget, sink is much wider than you could accomodate, but just an idea of layout.

#2 Could your contractor build something like this without charging an arm and a leg? Would you be satisfied with something this basic and bins for storage? (Anybody else understand how the washer dryer try fits in here with the chase too? Makes no sense. )

#3 This has it all, drawers and continuous countertop. Even though this is compact, the countertop space to the right of the sink is pretty generous for a NYC bathroom.

This too is custom. Would it be as nice with a wall hung vanity, W/D right next to it, and a separate little slab of counter top over the W/D? Does it matter a lot what this looks like if you can 10 lbs of bathroom in this 5 lb bag?

Are you all product people? Do you keep a ton of bath products, first aid, and other crap in your bathroom or are your pretty basic when it comes to storage needs? Do you store your linens outside the bathroom? You'll need a place for detergent and other laundry items. You could build recessed shelves into the wall behind the door in between the studs for shallow items.

Kitchen

I'm on team Leo. I hate an 18" dishwasher. I'd get a 24" dishwasher and take a smaller base drawer cabinet - especially because you are going to have some kind of island/cabinet thing in here for storing extra pots, pans, whatever.

I do love a lazy susan and am very willing to reach down into the bottom for a salad spinner and STILL hate unloading a dishwasher. No way would I run two loads a day - one for a spaghetti pot.

Last tetris , and note my MISTAKE on drain for tub.needs to go opposite end....as in more money if even possible.Spell oodles of money as water gets farther apart.

There is so much here that puts us in a vacuum to some degree. We have no layout, no drawing of the ENTIRE apartment. We could be agonizing on something that has another possible solution as in the case of washer in the bathroom.

We've an op who still uses "about" when it comes to inches...., a contractor who took advantage of a couple in timing the project.

We're still unclear as to any finality in a kitchen design - what cabinets....what finish,

Back to the washer dryer?

Knowing the machine and specs would help......I'm not for stuffing the appliance in the space. Hope nobody NEVER needs a walker.

I can't come up with better......Assume it needs to be VENTLESS And have an overall depth no more than 30" width no more than 30"

At least upon entry it is hidden and so too the toilet.