I think we should avoid getting into the semantics of what qualifies someone to be an expert in plant pathology. People come from all walks of life and attain knowledge in a multitude of ways, in this day and age, it's possible to learn a lot without formal education. Cole has been gracious enough to come on to this forum and address some of the concerns and questions people have, showing a level of transparency to what he knows and where he has attained his information from.

Is it possible @Cole C. for you to take some of the concerns and questions people have around Dr. Windham's methods and get some answers from him? I'm not doubting your knowledge in this field but getting a second or tertiary opinion might assuage some of the concerns regarding treatment and eradication of gall that people on this site have voiced.

I feel like this thread will ” mysteriously vanish ” before we know it

i agree theres no need to debate someones qualifications after all its better than the customer service she had before however, these plants should not be sold to customers . Period. how many new gardeners fell for her beautiful marketing not even knowing how difficult florists roses are and then recieve a rose ill but dont even know it ? and then gaslit about the situation ? they should have been adressed with the grower she got them from and never mailed to us . That goes with any company .

Jen, I tested the flag option on here and it hides the person's comment. At first I thought Grace was harassing them in removing post but now I realized Houzz just removes anything you flag.

We would all forgive (ok some may never forgive GRF ) if she apologized for her mistakes and stopped trying to hide all the negative comments. Freedom of speech is all we are asking for now.

From what I understand, most bare roots are harvested in November and kept in storage facilities that essentially act as refrigerators for the roses until they are ready for shipping, starting with warmer zones in January. Gall tends to form faster in warmer environments and as the weather across the country warms up and more roses are shipped, I'd expect to see more cases of gall. There are probably lapses in workers in the facility not noticing a rose has gall and shipping it out but to put to assume that GRF is knowingly sending out diseased roses seems a bridge too far. Again, I totally understand people's frustrations from last year but they have offered refunds and replacements this year and trying to do right by customers. By growing own root roses with Otto & Sons, hopefully this issue will come to a close next season.

I was offered a replacement for just 1 rose out of a shipment of 16, where only 5 appeared healthy upon arrival. The rest? I was advised to spray them with Lysol and pot them up—a suggestion that raised more concern than confidence.

It pains me to think of the gardeners who accept faulty guidance or suffer in silence without knowing how to assert their rights as consumers. But the real question is:
Shouldn't we all expect either healthy roses, a refund, or a fair replacement?

Yes, things can go wrong—that’s life. But how a company chooses to respond speaks volumes about its integrity and reliability.

My advice? Don’t wait for a future replacement.

• Credit card chargebacks are only possible within 60–90 days (after delivery), depending on your card issuer.
• If communication with GRF fails, file a complaint with the BBB.
• If that doesn’t resolve it, escalate to your credit card company.

Because being polite shouldn’t mean being powerless.
Expect better. Ask for better. 🌹

PS. Only one place (I was able to find) where Dr. Mark Windham talking about using Lysol is here and he is mentioned it as disinfection solution for pruners:

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://plantsciences.tennessee.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/25/2021/11/UT-Extension-Rose-diseases-Identification-and-management-W833.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Crown Gall Crown gall is a bacterial disease caused by Agrobacterium tumefaciens. Symptoms are galls (tumors) less than 1 to 4 inches in diameter on stems (often near pruning cuts), at the soil line (Figure 12), or on roots. Some cultivars can tolerate large and/or numerous galls without loss of vigor. Other cultivars are very intolerant and may decline rapidly with only one marble-sized gall. As galls age, they harden and appear to be woody (turn brown to black). Agrobacterium tumefaciens is a soil inhabitant (the pathogen’s population is stable in soil indefinitely). Digging up an infected plant and replacing the diseased plant with another plant may not yield a satisfactory result. An infested landscape bed can be abandoned and returned to grass. Carefully inspect all new plants, including roots, to ensure that this pathogen is not introduced into your garden. Crown gall can also be spread by pruning with bacteria-contaminated pruners. If you have had crown gall problems in the past, thoroughly clean pruners with a sanitizer such as 70 percent isopropyl alcohol, Lysol, etc., between pruning rose

Go Kitty. Great summation. Diane

Latest update

GRF replied back with in 24hr and offered me a refund or store credit. I took the refund and hopefully everything will be smooth sail from now on. ( I am still waiting for the rest of the order they couldn't delivered last year and a new order I just placed before this crown gall issue 😓.)

Hi, all. This thread has magically reappeared, so I'm going to delete my other thread with the same title to avoid confusion.

wow ! magic

lol

im still waiting on my reply from cole who i suppose i was talking to via email about my bridal piano and peony pink .

after that i am 110 percent taking risks with them .

Lily, it makes me wonder if Houzz perhaps reviews requests to take down entire threads? So maybe during the review process it was down and then it came back up when they determined the thread didn't violate any rules. It'd be nice to think that a review process like that exists.

I'm still planning to save backups of this thread periodically.

I hope you get refunds or replacements for both, not just one, of your roses if they are both failing to leaf out.

Before all the ’GRF Thread Magic’, I had noted GRF plant specialist Cole C’s own nursery and business conduct. The Yelp reviews of One Love Rose farms are here:

https://yelp.to/9Li1RBXHaJ

Yelp reviewrs say he has a habit of ghosting customers after collecting money. Now Grace has given him the role of determining whether her contagious terminally sick plants should be refunded. Seems they did indeed hire the best person for their business model.

If this thread now disappears, we have a good idea of who GRF Thread Disappearing Magician might be.

Auntie A

Yes they both failed to leaf out since i recieved in january . they promised a new bridal piano but said the other one was still alive . weeks later it still is a grey green with hardly any viable green left .

i meant to say ” 110 percent done ” lol

in my above reply

😅

elenazone6

2 days agolast modified: 2 days ago

OK, long story short — I got a full refund for all my GRF orders.
Let me know if anyone’s interested in the details or wants tips on how to handle issues with GRF effectively.

elenazone6

6 hours agolast modified: 6 hours ago

I was offered a replacement for just 1 rose out of a shipment of 16, where only 5 appeared healthy upon arrival. The rest? I was advised to spray them with Lysol and pot them up—a suggestion that raised more concern than confidence.

Was the offer of replacement for “just” 1 rose in addition to the full refund GRF issued?

Or was the full refund clawed back?

Rifis, what is your secret? Are you, by any chance, a top attorney? Diane

Kitty, Ryan promised a full refund for all the roses after I filed a BBB claim. I hope to see it reflected on my credit card soon.
Thank you!

Kitty, i dont have grow lights :)

and shortly after posting , i recieved an email that my rose woudl be replaced . i certainly dont like complaining to get results but i guess you have to at some point .

my fingers are crossed the new ones are fantastic . i am so excited for them .

when the new arrive ill dig into my dying plant to see how the roots look . im afraid to do it now . :)

My AA roses came very dry. I have planted them and covered with pots, thay woke up fast and doing great now.

@rifis (zone 6b-7a NJ), such a great question! I absolutely love how closely you're following along—I’ll make sure to draw a little flowchart next time, just to keep everything crystal clear for you.

They replaced my Connie Sandstorm that came dead on arrival with this enormous grafted one. The new ones growth has not been that great as well, sprouted out and died. I usually only order cuttings so new to this getting barefoot roses and so naive that I have never have carefully checked any of the roots. It would have stood out if the disease was there right? A new fear unlocked. I have at least 90 roses so I really hope I have not compromised my little fortune of roses.

Why does that happen? Is that from growing them under grow lights. I did not realize that big canes does not necessarily mean strong roots. I had three roses from a hobbyist who I suspect grew them under grow lights die shortly after I received them. I watered them just like I would my other roses with canes that big then I noticed they stayed moist too long and stopped watering them but they still died.

I asked Dr Mark Windham directly if he recommends using Lysol for gall. He responded that he ONLY recommends soaking the roots with Fertilome Fire Blight Spray at double strength to treat gall. I suppose this means you’d have to unearth the rose to soak it. I’m still afraid Fertilome Fire Blight Spray will be a sellout this year, sadly, with all the gall that’s been reported. And leave that Lysol for baseboard, tub and tile.

Dr Mark’s response below:

Fertilome Fire Blight Spray is available to ship online.. Amazon wont ship it to places like California, but Walmart does.

Kitty, I wanted to keep it a secret... I really did. But I can’t trick you—it’s an AI-generated image.

Kitty that all makes a lot of since. I think I did get in November or December from North Carolina.

Folks, on a serious note—let’s use some common sense. Doing something totally outrageous with bare root roses? Yeah… that’s a fast track to voiding the warranty, assuming that roses arrived healthy. (!)

Rose in Clay, LOL. This is why I love this forum. Where else on the internet can you find crown gall memes? 😂

Kitty, not bad! No roses = no crown gall. Win/win 😛. I used a meme generator imgflip.com

Those custom propogated roses like Abraham Darby and Spirit of Freedom cannot be purchased directly from DA as they are discontinued and nurseries authorized to sell DA roses are not allowed to sell discontinued roses. I think they are still only on the DA website for informational purposes. The ones that do are nurseries like K&M and Rogue Valley and some others. To Cole's credit, there is a large demand for these roses because of their color, petal count, and fragrance, the only drawback being their disease resistance. Abraham Darby and Evelyn are very susceptible to black spot, in contrast to say newer varieties like Vanessa Bell and Olivia Rose Austin that are very disease resistant.

For full transparency, I was looking into custom propogation of Geoff Hamilton but I don't want to wait up to two years. If he's going to go down this route, he should produce dozens of one gallons, there is a market for it! What makes me nervous, is the custom propogation of roses like Thierry Marx. That is not grown in the U.S.and is under patent. I'm very much against patent infringement from Chinese sellers like Highgarden, Ergongzi, Rose Explosion and the law must be applied equally to Americans as well.

DA has made an exception for Evelyn, I guess. Not only do they sell it, my local nursery, Edwards, which sells only DA patented roses, is able to sell Evelyn, too. Evelyn seems to be selling everywhere. DA needs to yield to customer pressure and start selling more "retired" roses, and quit being nincompoops. Diane

That insane AI image in the bathrub nearly had me spit out my coffee! too funny y’all.

As you're growing Julietta Cerise, I thought you might find this video interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs5RsinUW8M

Eucalyptus and spray roses look to be a simple and great floral design.

@elenazone6

Hey! What happened to my lurverly bathtub pic with all my precious Fertilome Fireblight Spray? Is this the work of Gallilinda and her plant specialist, Gall Gamble? This thread is spooky!

Breaking News: Local bathtub goes rogue after absorbing “too much power” from Ferti-lome Fire Blight Spray. Last seen whispering botanical exorcisms in Latin while banishing a crown gal to another dimension.

Leaps & bounds…. my 5 healthy GRF roses are growing in soaking water under grow lights indoors, near bay window, 13 days now….

It had been too cold to start them outside.)

The bare roots had barely nodes visible upon delivery. Grow lights often speed growth.

GRF healthy 5 roses soak 13 days as of today w/ nodes/leaves now. .

A&A healthy roses, newly delivered-start soaking 2 days ago, I saw a node on each rose-very small. . .

All soaking together…..

Julietta Cerise wins the prize for most leaves….

GRF photo

Internet photo

A Little Fun Science

Looking forward to her blooming!

A few leaves/nodes bursting forth from the other GRF roses….close ups show they all have nodes or leaves after 13 days…

And white feeder roots on a few of the roses…..

Interesting Spring Note: I read recently that roses tend to grow more leaves than roots in spring. They are focused on pumping out leaves and wanna go to focus on blooms. Later after blooms, in summer, they focus on growing more roots and then more leaves, then blooms, again. They do grow roots & leaves, though at same time, too.

I was just poking around the interwebs for some advice on watering roses and found myself on grace rose farms webpage. An hour later I got an email from them. Not cool. I won't ever shop here based on that invasion of privacy.

LOL, I tried to just look at GRF's website about a year ago, and they wouldn't let me unless I gave them my email address. Suffice it to say, I declined. So I've never even seen it :-D

I agree, GRF has a very heavy marketing and using a lot of tools for tracking.

If someone interested how your info can be in their or somebody else websites:

How GRF likely tracked you and emailed you:

1. Tracking cookies or pixels on their website

• When you visited Grace Rose Farms' site, it probably set a tracking cookie in your browser.

• These cookies may be linked to your email address if:

  • You’ve ever subscribed, bought something, or
  • Your email is tied to any browser/account (e.g., via Gmail, Facebook login, Shopify).

1. Email match via third-party data

• Some platforms (like Klaviyo, Meta, Google) can match anonymous web traffic with an email address using:

  • IP address
  • Device/browser fingerprint
  • Past activity or third-party data vendors

1. Logged-in session or previous purchase

• If you were logged into Gmail, Facebook, or Instagram in the same browser, your visit could be matched to you.

1. Invisible pixel in email campaigns

• If you ever opened an email from them, that email likely included a tracking pixel.
• That pixel can later help connect you to a new visit, even if you don’t log in.

1. Shopify magic (if they use it)

• GRF likely runs on Shopify, which integrates with email marketing tools like Klaviyo or Mailchimp.
• These platforms automatically sync visitor data with contact profiles, especially if they’ve interacted before (newsletter signups, purchases, wishlist, etc.).

🛡 What you can do to protect yourself next time:

• Use incognito/private browsing for “just browsing” moments.

• Install tools like:

  • uBlock Origin or Privacy Badger
  • ClearURLs (to strip tracking codes)

• Don’t reuse the same email on every platform (use aliases if you can).

• Avoid opening promotional emails if you don’t want to trigger pixel tracking.

😒 Final Thought:

Even if you didn’t type your email into their site that day, they likely already had it—and used behavioral re-engagement to ping you based on your activity. Legal? Yes (unfortunately). Ethical? Debatable. Effective? Maybe. Creepy? 100%.

=============================================================

And here is an analysis what is legal and where:

If You Gave Them Your Email Before

• ✅ Not a legal violation under U.S. law if:

  • You signed up for emails, made a purchase, or otherwise gave consent.
  • Their privacy policy includes behavioral tracking or "re-engagement marketing."

But still… sending you emails based on your browsing feels invasive if you didn’t know they were watching.

🔍 If You Never Gave Them Your Email

This is murkier and sketchier:

1. Did they purchase or match your email via a 3rd party?

• ❌ This could violate your expectations of privacy, but it's often legal in the U.S.

• 🛑 It would violate GDPR or CCPA if:

  • You're in California (covered by CCPA) or
  • You're in the EU (GDPR applies)
  • And they did not offer you a clear opt-out or privacy notice

2. Did they track your visit and connect it to your email using browser fingerprinting or pixels?

• ❌ Under GDPR, that requires opt-in consent (like a cookie banner).
• ⚖️ Under CCPA, they must at least notify you and provide a “Do Not Sell My Info” link.

🇺🇸 In the U.S. (most states)

• Unfortunately, what happened is probably legal unless you’re in:

  • California (CCPA/CPRA)
  • Virginia, Colorado, Connecticut, or Utah (limited data laws)

• Most states don’t require consent for behavioral email targeting if they already have your email.

🚨 Potential Privacy Violations (If Any):

ConditionPrivacy Violation?NotesYou gave them your email❌ Likely legalStill creepy, but standardYou never gave them your email, and they matched it⚠️ PossiblyDepends on how they got it and local lawNo cookie banner and you're in EU✅ YesGDPR violation if tracking used without consentYou’re in California and they didn’t provide opt-out⚠️ PossibleCCPA requires “Do Not Sell” links for profiling

😠 TL;DR

If you're in the U.S. outside of California, this is probably not a legal violation, but it’s definitely a privacy red flag. If you're in California or the EU, you might have a case depending on whether they gave you the proper opt-outs and disclosures.

GRF’s entire business is online. They do not have a physical storefront to sell bouquets or rose plants so online marketing is how they build their business and bring in new customers. That goes for a lot of businesses in this day and age. If you don’t want marketing tools to track you, delete your cookies or surf in private mode. Finding a way to critique every part of their business isn’t particularly constructive.

Folks from the warm zones have started sharing their first blooms from GRF—and most of them are absolutely to die for!

Elena,

I gotta check out FB! I wanna see the blooms! Florist roses ate sooo gorgeous! I’m goibg to peek! Thank you!

sigh . does this look like gall was removed ? my replacements finally came . i was so relieved to get them . now im nauseous

To be honest, you don't know, I mean your guess could be correct it, may not. The machine removing the rose may have knicked it, the processor may have cut some dieback out, who knows, and based on these pictures, nobody's going to have a definitive answer for you. Best thing you can do is grow it in a container, I guess quarantine it to the best of your ability. If it develops another gall, you'll know your answer and you can go back to customer service and let them know.

On a different note, I'd add more soil and make sure the area below the graft is covered and doesn't dry out.

I hope it works out for you and you have a great rose bush.

To me, it looks like a cane was snapped off at the base relatively recently. It wouldn't make me think of crown gall if it weren't for the recent reports of gall. I say this as very much a rose newbie, though.

Lilly, I'm sorry this happened to you as well. A few roses from my deliveries arrived with the same issue. I decided not to take any chances—roses are supposed to arrive healthy, undamaged, and ready to thrive.

@Lilyfinch z9a Murrieta Ca - I agree with @windowsill_gardener that it looks more like a callus formation where a cane broke from the bud union (similar to what happens to many other trees and shrubs when a main branch breaks from the trunk or graft). You could keep it potted for the season to keep an eye on it but I suspect it will be okay.

Previously posted, but worth a second glance — side by side: one with a gall, the other with a sharp cut in almost the exact spot. Makes you wonder...

Kitty, I just had to call my credit card on GCM ranch. They did not ship my roses and did not arrive on the promised date. Nor did they answer my emails. I'm glad I have not ordered from Plant roses, sorry you had to deal with them. I did not like their attitude on their page. "Do not order roses from us if you don't know how to care for them."

It turned me off.

Socal,

I can give you several sellers that do a lovely job.

Have to agree with elena on this: " roses are supposed to arrive healthy, undamaged, and ready to thrive." The plants from this company seem to me to be grotesquely over-priced, even for top-grade plants in perfect condition. The photos I'm seeing are of plants that I would consider unacceptable,even at a much, much lower price. What's more, a customer should not be expected to mist the plant,give it special potions, disinfect it, and perform obscure voo-doo rites around the plant in order for it to grow. I feel really badly for all of you who have been cheated by this company,and worse for those who have struggled to get what they are owed and have been only re-cheated. I hope that this company will meet the end that it deserves, and that all who got ripped off will eventually feel better and find honest,straight-forward companies that sell high-quality roses at reasonable prices.

Yes indeed, Opine, Auntie A is happy that Walmart accepted all her Lysol returns, that’s not for rosebushes, what sort of ’rose expert’ would make such a recommendation? One who is hoping you’d spray Lysol rather than demand a refund, that’s who. Yes cutting off gall and selling the plant is indeed shady, could have disasterous consequences for unsuspecting homeowners’ rose gardens. Good thing Auntie A stocked up on Fertliome Fireblight, she’ll be soaking all the bare roots! She captured this pic of Dr Mark snuggling with her beloved Fertlilome to cherish on her mantle.