Too much reading and I have read it but still have no idea what it is you are doing.

I do agree an ensuite master is always top of the list for buyers

Patricia, sorry so long a post. In the past, if I didn't post enough information there were so many questions from others. I had hoped the pictures of the drawings labeled before and after would help make it all more clear.

Inspired, the house is just about 1500 sq feet total. The front bedroom would shrink from ~11.5' x 12.5' (146 sq ft) to ~11.5' x 7-7.5' (80.5 to 86.25 sq ft). There are a lot of Victorian cottages and Victorian bungalows in this area, and smaller bedrooms are pretty common. For most I think it will be too small to be a full time bedroom, but it could work as an office/guest room for most depending on furniture choices. And I think as long as it has a closet and a window it can be listed as a bedroom in the future.

I think you can do a 5x7 bath instead of what you have and this way only take ~2 ft from the room and then it will still be a good sized room for a bedroom and lose fewer buyers with that as the room would then be smaller, but still a decent kids bedroom. However have you thought about making the bathroom a shared one for the two bathrooms and access to it from the whole house and just close off the doorway to the other bedroom and make that the master? I think that would get you a better layout in terms of the bedrooms all being close to a bathroom.

If you convert your living room to a dining room, is your new living room the parlor? I don't think reducing the size of the front bedroom is a big risk - if you were to sell this house, a future owner could always enclose the porch to make a larger bedroom if they wanted to.

@lyfia thanks for the suggestion. I was stuck on not moving the toilet and sink and just adding a shower, but a new configuration might be worth it to keep the 3rd bedroom a bit larger.

For the other idea, where would you move the bathroom to? Where would the door be? The back bedroom is the smallest (126 sq ft) and has the smallest closet. Though I suppose a 2nd closet could be added in the current hallway space. A full size bed is the biggest size that fits into it without overcrowding.

@JP L - Thanks. I have thought about that too, that the next owner would have room to expand into the porch if they wanted the space added to the interior and create a larger third bedroom.

The 'parlor' would become the living room for a home that wanted it. It is smaller than the other living/dining room. It would be easy to set up a sectional, or a small couch and chairs, with a tv on the wall that backs on to the entry. I am probably going to use the space for some of my creative projects, a desk/work station, and the dog crate. Since I don't have room for an eat in kitchen, I would try to put a 4 person table and chairs, and a conversation nook of some sort into the living/dining room.

This is a renovation that i would do for what i wanted not future buyers. I don’t see anything here about why you are doing this renovation. i agree with lyfia though that putting a little extra money in now to move plumbing but keeping 3rd bedroom bedroom sized would be best for resale and would actually add some value. If you are already moving walls and doing floors might not cost that much more assuming perimeter foundation with easy plumbing access.

personally i would prefer back bedroom with the 2 windows and further from living room as primary. it does seem easy to add a door there if desired.

@lharpie I am doing the renovations because when I bought the house, in 2018, there were only three in town in my price range. I was lucky to buy at the time I did, because the current market would be out of my reach.

It was livable, but the last owner had done little to improve it. And before her it had been a rental for a long time. The houses for sale in spring 2018 that were already remodeled were $100K+ more, but many of them had black granite countertops or other upgrades that I wouldn't want to live with. I didn't want to buy and then throw out relatively newly installed kitchens.

I have done my remodel in phases because I don't have deep pockets and even HELOC rates are on the high side right now. I want to increase resale value, but also enjoy living here for the next 7-10 years. That is why I am asking about major floorplan changes and not decorating ideas. I am not likely to stay in this house or this area after I retire. The money I get from selling in the future will help pay for the downsize in another area. Unless of course the market is so skewed that moving in 2034, is impossible for everyone but the very rich.

I didn't realize why someone was remodeling was such a big deal!

@lharpie you could use the back bedroom as a master, but only if you thought a full size bed would work. It is only 126 sq ft. Or a queen bed with not much else in the room...

@lyfia @lharpie

I had time this morning to redo the proposed Phase 3 remodel based on the 5x7 bathroom suggestion. Also have spent a couple of days thinking about why I am remodeling, other than in the last few years the earthquakes have further damaged the old plaster walls. Plus the house is due!

By using the 2nd bedroom as the master, that room can support a Q, K, or Cali K bed. Or a smaller bed with room for a chair or small loveseat.

There are still a lot of people that work from home here, but I would use the office as a meditation/treatment space. I do appreciate that the room is not shrinking as much with the bathroom suggestion. It would also make a nice snug or library/reading room for a future couple. Lots of downsizers moving here due to the fact that it rarely gets as hot as other places in California.

I also have an older friend that might have to come live with me at some point in the future. I would happily give up the master and make it a comfortable nest for her if she needed it. The walk-in shower would be better than the tall tub in the main bath, though I will need to pretty up the view.

Would add a window to each bedroom so they have light from 2 directions as well as proper egress.

I think the question of why is important because you are pretty much always going to spend much more than you will get back on resale and it wasn’t clear what you wanted/needed. without demensions hard to know if this works as is but i think maintaining 3rd bedroom size is best for resale and 2 full baths adds value. people are used to tiny baths here so ok if small. it sounds like will be versatile for you as well. I would definitely do that over making 3rd br into office sized.

I don’t think you have enough room between the vanity and the shower in the new master bathroom. If the shower is 3 feet wide and the vanity 2 feet, than leaves only two feet between the two.

@rockybird okay - thanks. I will take a look.

Which direction does the floor joists run? Depending on the direction moving the toilet might be easy and if not I would still consider moving the plumbing to get a good layout in the bath as it will make a difference in your general day to day use. Here's options for a 5x7 bath. The top left one is a very common size and flows well without being too cramped. Taken from https://hydrangeatreehouse.com/5x7-bathroom-layout/

Adding a full bath is going to be a good return, however the part that makes the current plan a bit wonky is that the 3rd bedroom is so far from the other bathroom. If your market has lots of non-families as buyers this probably doesn't matter so much. For families it might matter a bit more in how quickly the house sells.

Would it work for you to have the master in the front? It is more private that way from inside the house too, but it may be messing up the doors and windows in the one you called the master.

In you latest plan the closet space for the "office" is also a bit awkward and wastes space. How about having two on each side of the door into the room and facing the room to open, or just one side of the door facing inward as the current one cuts the room off quite a bit. If you want to save space use built in wardrobes as you save several inches by not having to have 6" of framing and get roughly an extra 4-5" with a built in wardrobe depending on where it is placed.

@lyfia Thanks for the input. I agree about the closet for sure - and I like the suggestion of putting one on each side of the door if that remains the third bedroom/office/guest room.

Because of some of the feedback, I did look at making the bedroom in the middle of the house smaller. The goal being to make it more of a kids size bedroom and closer to the main bath. I guess I had never thought about how far a toilet was from a bedroom. I don't remember waking up in the middle of the night to pee as a kid, and I have not had young kids living with me. But when I was a kid we didn't walk around with water bottles all day either.

Before a previous owner installed the half bath in a former closet, the original bath was at the back of the house for everyone. I guess in 1910-20 having indoor plumbing was a step up from an outhouse, so it wasn't a big deal where it was in the house?

I think that change in middle bedroom size would involve moving the entrance to that bedroom into the kitchen. Either back by the mudroom door or across from the fridge cabinet, or off the mudroom itself but would not put that as #1 option. Also the double window becomes a single window to allow for the wall. So for sure another window would need to be placed on that short exterior wall that faces east. East facing windows in bedrooms are great IMO. Then it would be in the 115-125 sq ft range, similar to the back bedroom.

With that change, then the front bedroom could become the master. It would involve the moving of more walls to configure the closet and bathroom. And moving the plumbing would not be too bad. I think that the current toilets connection to the waste line is sort of a temporary fix as it was not part of the kitchen/main bath/etc. remodel, but replacing the supply and waste lines was. As per local 'custom' the half bath was not permitted or done to code originally.

I like the upper left 5x7 bath idea. It does seem to have the most room to turn around. It would be a one person bathroom, but better to have a 2nd full bath. Also think that adding a walk in shower would be a good thing to have in the house in general. The main bath has a V&A alcove soaker tub, which is heaven for baths. It is a little tall to step into though for someone with joint/mobility issues. Saying that makes me think the 2nd bathroom should not be ensuite either, but something accessible to all. Oh goodness.

Making the front bedroom the master will be a more expensive remodel with all the wall and window changes. Though the lathe and plaster has to all come down anyway, so the interior work would include going down to the studs no matter what configuration. Maybe that means moving walls that aren't load bearing less costly? Or more expensive no matter what? :P

There are families with kids as well as lots of no kids families still trying to buy here. The house is on a busy street without a good yard for play, so there are other reasons people needing two bedrooms for kids might not be drawn to it. In this market the under 1500 sq ft does make it a starter or downsize home. Starter meaning no kids yet, or just one kid? So having an office, library, snug, or other public space with a door off the open kitchen/dining/living space might be a welcome use of a third bedroom. Then the proximity to the bathroom might not matter?

I think this planning phase is so important. I am glad to have the input. I will post a plan to reflect this later, but right now I need to go harvest lettuce and peas! Thanks for the input!

wow. had some drywall mudding to do... but did this instead...

example 1 for front bedroom as master with ensuite, puts second bedroom access direct from kitchen, which is not ideal IMO. Adds one window in each bedroom plus bathroom, which is good

2nd bathroom with walk-in shower not an ensuite. Shrinks both front bedrooms some. Would expect to maybe add a skylight or solar tube to the otherwise windowless bathroom.

If you decided to do the middle bedroom as the smaller bedroom then I would at least put the door where you have the closet so it is across from the fridge and more in a hallway sort of than open into the kitchen. As to costs using this as the smaller bedroom will be more costly becuse of the window and doors having to move as that is not needed if the front bedroom is the smallest, however the door moving with all the drywall down isn't a big deal and if you plan to add a window in the bath then there would be siding work already being done on the outside so although it will cost extra it will be done with other work also done in that area.

Thanks. The only problem with putting the door of the smallest bedroom where the closet is, would be that it couldn't be at the end of the wall. It would have to be 18" or more from that end because of the doorway between the kitchen and living on the other side of the wall.

I am leaning toward the shower bathroom that is accessible to all. I guess I would rather not have an ensuite with the only shower (without a tub) and have others walking through my master bedroom to use it. And if anyone in the future ever wanted to make one of the bedrooms and bathrooms an ensuite combo, they could add a door off the kitchen for the back bedroom or off the living room for the middle bedroom.

And making the front bedroom smaller still also gives a future owner the option of adding the porch to the interior of that room. I was looking to see if the entrance to that shower full bath could be somewhere else, but I don't think so. No without moving ducting.

Thanks for your input. Right now the favored plan is one I never would have come up with without it.