Ken, Vine street hill cemetery. Might there be a group of students interested in doing something about it? Yes that is why I want the info. Three of us are identifying over 200 trees, shrubs and other plants. Are you near any local arb... have you contacted them? Yes and yes. They can give some info for help. Resin, "...If it wants to be an arboretum worthy of the name, it needs to document all its existing trees ... (identity, source, size, condition, etc.), and make sure that all new acquisitions are also fully documented...wild origin, and with a high diversity of rarely-planted species." This is a great idea! This gives me a great idea for a plant donation program. Is there anything else? I donâÂÂt plan on calling it an arboretum just after identifying some trees but we plan on setting a pathway to certification once all plant species are documented? Who would I go to for arboretum certification? Thanks, Gardener Guy

spedigrees: Limestone varies in magnesium content. If you go to your local agricultural store--I am not sure what you have up there--and ask for “high mag limestone“--crushed or pulverized--they should be able to direct you. The analysis is always posted on the bag. Dolomitic limestone is generally “high-mag,” but perhaps other types of limestone have a high magnesium content. Our soils here in the northern Shenandoah Valley are very high in magnesium, and high mag limestone underlies a good portion of our soils, and high mag limestone is readily available. And, almost all the NS in this area look very nice, in spite of our hot, dry climate. As for soil acidity--that should not be a problem for Norway spruce, unless the soil is extremely acidic, maybe in the low 4’s. At my timberland, where the soils are a bit below 5, Norway spruce does very well. I am not sure what an optimum pH would be, and it would probably vary with soil type. Maybe somewhere in the 5.5 range is "safe." As for magnesium for Norway spruce--this has been fairly well documented. I titled my original post “a hypothesis,” but there is substantial evidence. A site factors study done at SUNY Syracuse some years ago now, noted that “at least 75 kg per hectare” is needed for good NS growth. Studies in Europe, where there has been extensive decline in NS forests, has shown that the acid rain causes a reduction in the availability of magnesium, and supplementing magnesium often solves the problem. And, I have made some personal observations--not scientific, and without all the facts--that magnesium supplementation can make a dramatic difference. But, the main effect of magnesium may not be in height growth, but in the fullness, density, and lushness of the foliage. I have seen many poor looking, thin foliaged NS trees growing reasonably fast in height. Also, the thin foliage on some Norway spruce trees has causes other than a lack of an optimum supply of magnesium. And, I know, some of that is genetic, and not correctable. As for your experiment: Yes, 5 years should be long enough to show some results, but no sooner. The limestone has to dissolve into the soil, get down to the roots, and, because NS hold their needles for several years, the "thickening" of the foliage may not be vis1ble for several years. BUT, and this is a big "but," the effect may not really show up on very young trees. It may help the growth rate, but as for foliage density, that is never really noticeable until trees are somewhat older and larger--maybe not until they are 20 feet tall or more will any difference be really clear. As for the growth rate: white pine usually starts growing faster than NS. How old are your trees? How tall? NS trees don't begin to grow fast until they are about 4.5 feet high, and that could be only after 6 to 8 years. At that point, they should "take off." On the best soils, and in the right climate, an average of 28 inches is possible, with some years the new shoots elongating up to 4 feet or more. But growth averaging 20 to 24 inches is good for many sites. Norway spruce and white pine, assuming equally good strains, should grow equally well over the first 50 years. The white pine up to about 18 years should outgrow the NS, but after that NS should catch up a bit. After 50 years NS should outgrow the white pine for some years. SUNY Syracuse did a growth curves study for NS, and found that for the first 60 years--after the trees reach 4.5 feet in height, there is no "curve" as such, but a straight line. White pine growth curves bend sharply over to the right after the first 18 years or so, and at 50 years the growth averages about 1 foot, while at the same age, NS trees can still be growing 28 inches per year. But this rate does begin to decline not too long after the 60-year mark. On the best sites both should eventually make 150 feet or more in forest stands. Open grown NS should make 120 feet or more on better sites. As for the blue spruce and magnesium, I really don't know. Tom may be right about this. --spruce

I'm just a conifer enthusiast who under permission of the American Conifer Society, has been adding information and photos to records for five years running. I do it for everyone and so there is at least (a) resource that has 'someone' who is in the rhealm of all this life. Conifer growing is my lifelong passion/obsession. You don't see my name often in the records but you can bet that approximately 1/2 of the photos in the database I've added either from photos I've taken personally or photos I've captured from trusted plantsmen. I'm just a volunteer. Regards Spruce, Dax P.s. to answer your question - I'm going to assume you did not collect scionwood from the weeping portions/skirts? The very best place while not suitable would have been at the very top of the tree near the leader, then you would have had identical copies. The best way for a nurseryman to grow such a tree is to get a good scion and candle it into a multi-stemmed shrub that only produces upright growin plant material, or to disfigure the original tree and to have removed the very tip of one of the lead branches, then begin to produce the nursery plant. About 'Elegantissima' - I do not know the summer color but the tree has swooping branches and is its' own sulphur color. I really doubt there is any uncertainty in the propagation of this cultivar. Gee Farms especially I would trust... Cincinatta - may not have "spiraling" buds but it will be an oddly--shaped tree with pendulous look. I have seen photos from Dawe's Arboretum as well as a few other photos. It will have a similar look to Picea abies 'Jacobsen'/'Jacobsen Aurea'. Almost identical. And naturally plants do get propagated multiple times under the same or different names as Edwin mentions. There is very much difference in the Picea abies 'Pendula' (Picea abies f. pendula), 'Pendula Major' I've already heard that problem, and even Picea abies 'Inversa' I've seen as a narrow upright (not true form) and at all other times always a rambing, "mess" to put it lightly. And I agree with Edwin, we gotta be bold and stick to our own nursery tags. More on Spruces: Picea pungens tree-form cultivars/grafted seedlings maybe found in your own neighborhood i.e., will not gain apical dominance from any shoots used. They must be staked for several years. A few exceptions do exist however: 'Edit' is all I can recall at the moment, there are others. Same is true for all tree forms of firs! One exception, Abies concolor 'Conica'. I'd be happy to hear of others. Hope this helps! For now.

Thoughts? when in doubt, go for hardy. as for getting a good stem caliper, search. they are out there, although not always cheap. Anything that can be done can be done in a manner attractive to one but not another. if you feel you have to stake, think about what you are doing and what the materials needed are. you may be staking a tree, but that metal rod could be a rustic cedar log. you may need wire, but it could be black, or a little spray paint, it's a rainbow. you have to protect the trunk, functional, but there's no reason you can't then decorate that somehow, be it paint, outdoor fabrics, or fake flowers. The stake is temporary. personally, i'd shop around until I felt I knew what all the available options were, and the related price points, and make your decision then.