I still grow LAK and Cl Pasadena Tournament, and did grow Red Sweetheart. Red Sweetheart was recently reclassified to a polyantha from a floribunda although my opinion was contrary, given its propensity in my yard to bloom singly rather than in clusters. All three are Krebs roses and, apparently, all three involve crosses with a seedling and Mlle Cecile Brunner (in fact, PT is known as Red Cecile Brunner in some quarters). The color seems similar on all three and the bloom pattern on LAK seems closest to that of CB itself--long open candelabra type clusters with a great deal of space between the blooms that rarely excites judges at rose shows. For me, both the climber PD and the bush RS tended to bloom singly. As far as disease resistance goes, all three were very strong in that department in my Sherman Oaks garden. Although I am not enamored of the quill pattern in blooms, I have to admit I was greatly impressed with the long elegant bud of LAK. AS a side remark, LAK does not honor any English nobility, but rather a lady who helped Krebs escape from Europe to the United States midst the horrors of that 'low dishonest decade' we seem about to repeat in Europe. Jim D

Left to its own devices, LAK will 'build' in the fashion of old Chinas, and just continue to grow and occupy a space; I also saw the very old LAK in Glendale that never received any water other than runoff from a lawn, no fertilizer and no treatments for fungi or insects. It had grown to the size of a standard garage height and about as half as wide. It was subsequently cut down to within two feet of its base and continued to thrive and grow. My own LAK which has to be twenty years old has grown to 9 to 10 feet tall and about half as wide, only to be reduced to half that size with no reduction in eagerness to bloom. I guess the correct answer to your question as to size would be: it will grow to whatever size you want it to be--at least in southern California.

Thank you for the ideas Gean and Zaphod Gean, do you have some more early HT you like? I have the ones you listed to do some research on. Zaphod, that is pretty, I will be looking in to her as well. Hoovb, thanks for the heads up on that one. I made my list up from previous threads with peoples favorite roses. But of course, they will do differently in different areas. But I already have the DA queen of nasty on stick, her blooms are wonderful and smell fabulous when the weather is right, but the rest of the time YUCK. My love/hate rose, Janet. There is a 'Souvenir de Pierre Notting' in the rose garden at the mission, I guess I need to stop in more often and check out how it looks. thanks all!

Pretty color - wish I could smell her...