Lord luv a duck.....isn't this about the third (or maybe more) repeat of this discussion in the last three or four years? Hey Rob - glad to see you still around. Looks like you haven't killed too many brain cells with your unvented heater.... :o) Nathan - love your postings. Don't see you carrying a lot of baggage or prejudice into them, but do see you using common sense together with a scientific way of thinking. I have come to realize (through experience) that common sense is sometimes left at the road side by some people the higher their level of formal education is. As to your statement of "Tradesmen often suggest what they are comfortable with, what they've used...", can also sometimes be tied to what company (brand) gives them the best "goodies". Same holds true with the (usually) new meds doctors prescribe so freely. stressbaby - Evidently you are in the medical field. Now, I agree scientific evidence is very important, but so is common sense. Let's be realistic - the scientific evidence collected by the experts (and I have come to use that term loosely, especially when talking about some governmental agencies) which was generated by the studies on the safety of Vioxx for human consumption really didn't amount to diddly squat, did it! Now, before you become unhinged on me, don't you think that rather than continuing to label unvented heaters as unsafe and undesirable, you might want to work on the statement you made, namely "If it has not already been done, we need a way to accumulate data on the safety of these heaters in hobby greenhouses...we need a way to obtain level II evidence of their safety." I'm sure that people on this site that have vented and unvented heaters would be more than willing to share their experiences in a poll (and no, probably none of us are scientists, but I'm sure we can make "common sense" observations as to the color of flame, odor, plant growth or lack of, did the heater continuously refuse to burn, etc.). Of course I understand we would not be able to do "double blind" studies, but hey, some attempt to collect and interpret data is better than continual *itching and holier than thou attitudes that have on occasion invaded discussion of this particularly volatile subject, don't you think. I'm sure you are quite capable of coming up with questions that could be answered by all of us in a manner that would lead to measurable data. Then, we could just point to the data collection and interpretation of same whenever this question comes up! Actually, it could probably be posted in the FAQ area. That, quite honestly, would be great. cuestaroble - I read the information on the site you gave the link to, and although it stated problems, it also stated correcting measures to take none of them were drastic, and most of them were what ghse owners already have in place. And, of course the plants mentioned showing the damage (tobacco and tomatoes) are two very sensitive plants. Sometimes looking at tomatoes with the head tilted wrong causes them to have problems :o)...just joking, but you know what I mean - they really are sensitive, especially at their early growth stages. stressbaby, I've had a few of those patients in CCU/MICU who had taken Vioxx, and my husband was taking it before his MI. I'm an RN and a small commercial grower. Mary

Have a look at these stores they might have a heater suitable. I know the XS cargo store did have an outdoor electric patio heater (rain proof), but it didn't have a thermostat control. It would need an external thermostat switch. Those tropicals will need to be kept around or above 10C, which is difficult. http://www.tscstores.com/pages/locations/allhome/storelocation-home.php http://www.princessauto.com/PAcountry.cfm?CTRY=CAN&INF=loc&SPC=1 http://www.shopxscargo.com/store_locator/default.asp

There is a new page up at Outdoor Fireplaces about Outdoor Patio Heaters, if you need info.

Types for Outdoor Heaters- https://www.heating-air-conditioning.org/ Outdoor heaters typically use one of four main types of fuel sources — Natural Gas, Propane, Electric & Wood — each with their own set of pros and cons. Let’s take a closer look at each of the fuel types, and help narrow down which one is best for you. 1. Propane Propane heaters are pretty easy to add to your patio or yard. They don’t usually require professional installation, so it’s just a matter of putting them together, attaching the gas tank, and turning them on. Unfortunately, they cost more than natural gas outdoor heaters in the long run and you should plan on replacing the gas tank every so often if you go with this option, but the startup convenience appeals to many users. And when the propane tank does run out, it’s incredibly easy to replace the tank with a new one. Benefits: Heat up fast. No installation required. Portable; Can be moved to where you need the heat the most. To Keep in Mind: Propane costs more than natural gas. Gas tanks will need to be replaced periodically. Shouldn’t be used in a covered or enclosed space. 2. Natural Gas Natural gas outdoor heaters will usually require professional installation, since you’ll need them to be hooked up to your gas line. Because of this, they can cost quite a bit more upfront than other types of outdoor heaters — both for the heater itself and the installation costs. However, they’re the cheapest to use once you have them installed and they’re incredibly easy to maintain. Benefits: Cheap to use. Easy to maintain. To Keep in Mind: Expensive to buy and install. Can’t use in a covered or enclosed space. May be difficult to move due to natural gas line. Outdoor heaters typically use one of four main types of fuel sources — Natural Gas, Propane, Electric & Wood — each with their own set of pros and cons. Let’s take a closer look at each of the fuel types, and help narrow down which one is best for you. 1. Propane Propane heaters are pretty easy to add to your patio or yard. They don’t usually require professional installation, so it’s just a matter of putting them together, attaching the gas tank, and turning them on. Unfortunately, they cost more than natural gas outdoor heaters in the long run and you should plan on replacing the gas tank every so often if you go with this option, but the startup convenience appeals to many users. And when the propane tank does run out, it’s incredibly easy to replace the tank with a new one. Benefits: Heat up fast. No installation required. Portable; Can be moved to where you need the heat the most. To Keep in Mind: Propane costs more than natural gas. Gas tanks will need to be replaced periodically. Shouldn’t be used in a covered or enclosed space.