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3pinktrees

6' x 8' kitchen design help needed

11 months ago

We are working on a small studio apartment, meant for our daughter to move into next year. It's around 450/500 sq ft total. It will have a bathroom and small kitchen, and the rest of it will be open with as much dual purpose storage/built-ins as we can think of.


Right now I'm working on the kitchen layout. Actually, I've been messing with it for a while and would love some feedback and ideas.


I've put a lot of graph paper drawings below. The first is the outline of the entire apartment. We will likely be swapping the bath and kitchen locations, so the kitchen will go where the pen is pointing. However, I'm open to leaving them where the drawings show, if that seems better--some of my potential layout drawings were for if the kitchen is on one side, some for the other. They could all be mirror image swapped depending on where it ends up. The exterior walls angle in slightly at 5' 4" The kitchen and bath must be on that end of the apartment for plumbing.


There are large windows in the bumped out section. This will turn into a large window seat that doubles as storage and banquette seating.


We plan on a solatube in the kitchen and bathroom.


The next drawings are potential kitchen layouts as well as a blank one showing just the measurements.


We will be using a small apartment fridge and a 24" stove. There will be no dishwashwer.


The entire kitchen space is 77.5 inches wide and 8 feet deep.


I'm not sure if galley is the way to go. Would it be better to do an L shape? I don't mind it being a tight space-- the apartment is meant for 1 person or a couple max.


I also included an inpsiration shot of a very small kitchen that's U shape. I tried this layout too and kind of love it, but I don't know if in real life it's ridiculous.


Spots where I wrote counter or counter/table I was thinking of just a piece of counter with legs and stools under to double as worktop or 'eat in' kitchen and desk. In this case it could be slightly less deep than a traditional counter to widen aisles? Open to other suggestions.


Thank you all so much! I'm excted about this little project but have looked at it so long I've lost design objectivity.











Comments (110)

  • 11 months ago

    My idea was that ideally the sink will share a wall with the bath plumbing, or be along the back wall if it's a U. The stove should be on the full height wall, as well as the fridge, to allow a tall fridge and easy venting. Both the kitchen and the bath will have one short wall.

  • 11 months ago

    Being so narrow, I would use 12" - 15" deep wall cabinets set on a 2" x 4" toe kick for base cabinets along one wall. Give the countertop a 1" overhang to reach past door face. It will work to hold all your small appliances, knife racks, containers ect. This would give you an extra 8" - 12" width, which is a lot in such a narrow kitchen

    3pinktrees thanked Josh Scott
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  • 11 months ago

    @Josh Scott: "I would use 12" - 15" deep wall cabinets set on a 2" x 4" toe kick for base cabinets along one wall."

    • Minimum refrigerator width: 24"; sink width: 24"; range width: 24"; recommended open counter space on either side of a range: 18".
    • Space required for appliances and counter space: 24 + 24 + 24 + 18 + 18 = 108".

    How are you going to fit all that on the one side of a 96" deep kitchen equipped with standard-depth (24") cabinets?


  • 11 months ago
    last modified: 11 months ago

    @wdccruise

    How are you going to fit all that on the one side of a 96" deep kitchen equipped with standard-depth (24") cabinets?

    I am not sure, but maybe Josh is talking about doing the shallow depth cabinets on the short wall in Beuhl’s U- shaped plan with the extended fridge? You know the one you think is “terrible“?

    You never responded to my question. I tagged you asking about how your galley design can fit the range hood on a 5’4” wall where the angled ceiling begins. I expalined that maybe I am not understanding your design correctly. Do you care to explain?

  • 11 months ago

    @Josh Scott, that's an interesting idea. I looked into using 21" deep vanity bases, but didn't think about uppers. Obviously it would only work on a run without appliances or sink though. I'm just wondering if a countertop that shallow would still be a useful work space? Having lived into two kitchens with inadequate prep space, that's one of my top priorities.


    At the same time, I know that in a kitchen this small, there have to be a lot of compromises. I'm just trying to decide which are the ones I want to make...

  • 11 months ago
    last modified: 11 months ago

    @rebunky: "I tagged you asking about how your galley design can fit the range hood on a 5’4” wall where the angled ceiling begins."

    The OP wrote the following mentioning "5'4":

    • The exterior walls angle in slightly at 5' 4"
    • The 5'4" walls which then indent slightly
    • The other wall is the exterior wall and angles in slightly once it hits 5'4".


    As I explained earlier, I don't know what any of these phrases mean and how it affects the design. I don't know how it involves the ceiling, if it does.

  • 11 months ago
    last modified: 11 months ago

    @wdccruise

    The OP’s diagram seemed pretty easy to understand.


    Maybe this will help you visualize?


    On the two long exterior sides of the studio, the wall height is only 5’ 4” from the floor to the angled ceiling. Picture an attic with short walls.

    On the two narrower ends, the walls taper in to become full ceiling height where I show the flat green ceiling.

    That is why the OP (and others) are telling you that you cannot have the range and hood where you have it in your design. That exterior wall is too short and the hood would be mounted on the angled ceiling.

    The fridge and range definitely need to be on the two full height walls. The sink should as well because having it be on the short exterior wall would be uncomfortable to use and to prep next to it with the angled ceiling right in your face. So that means they can either go on the interior wall which separates the kitchen and bathroom or centered on the back end where the wall has some head room towards the full height ceiling. Hope that makes sense. 🤪

  • 11 months ago
    last modified: 11 months ago

    Assume:

    • The kitchen is on the left, not as Beuhl's drawings where it has been moved to the right.
    • The short wall is on the left.
    • The room is 90" wide to accommodate a galley kitchen.
    • If 24" deep cabinets are on the left one can work (i.e., prep food, cook) on that side of the room because the ceiling slope does not prevent one from standing comfortably in front of those cabinets.


    Then:

    • Stick with the galley kitchen (as illustrated earlier).
    • Do not install any wall cabinets on the short (left) wall.
    • Use a downdraft hood with the induction cooktop or range.
  • 11 months ago

    I'm reluctant to use a downdraft-- there is only one set of windows in the apartment and I'm afraid a downdraft wouldn't be adequate to deal with smoke/grease/etc. Perhaps this is a misplaced concern? I haven't heard good things about downdraft, but haven't personally ever put one in a kitchen so I could be wrong.


    Without a downdraft I think a U shape really is the only way to get the stove, sink, and fridge all on full-height walls, as much as the galley gives a more spacious feel.


    Thanks @rebunky for the visual explaining my very non-professional drawing!

  • 11 months ago
    last modified: 11 months ago

    No it is not a misplaced concern.

    There have been tons of threads on this forum discussing how worthless DD stoves are at capturing cooking fumes. Think about all those unhealthy, greasy, sticky, fine particulates floating in the air and landing on ever single surface, even your daughter’s bed. Yuck!

    And while an induction range would be much better then gas, it still produces cooking fumes that need to be removed by a functional hood that actually is above all four burners.

    Yeah, a downdraft is a horrible idea for this small studio with the only windows being in the bump out. I‘d get the most powerful hood I could afford. You probably already know that the hood should be 6” wider then the range as well.

  • 11 months ago

    This under-cabinet Whirlpool WVU37UC0F hood is 6-19/54" deep, tapers forward, and can be vented from the back. It is supposed to be installed no closer than 24" from the cooktop.

    35" (cooktop height) + 24" (cooktop-to-hood) + 6" (hood) = 65"

    You could construct a "cabinet" against the short wall and ceiling, and that extended outward by the depth of the hood. The under-cabinet hood would then be attached to this "cabinet". This would allow the range/cooktop to be placed on the short wall in a galley kitchen.

    @rebunky: " Think about all those unhealthy, greasy, sticky, fine particulates floating in the air and landing on ever single surface, even your daughter’s bed."

    I'm proposing this movie concept to Warner Brothers tomorrow: "She Died by Greasy, Sticky, Fine Particles" starring Roseanne Barr!

  • 8 months ago

    Ok, so after more prep and planning we’ve decided to shift the kitchen to the ’bump out’ area. Overall this solves lot of problems, and i like it.


    Here is my stab at a layout. The fridge cannot go on the long wall because of the windows. I really want to put it on the shortest wall so it won’t be the firsr thing you see when you walk into the house, but i dont think it fits. I’d rather have the sink around where the fridge is currently.


    Any feedback on this new plan? 4 grid squares are 1 foot.


  • 8 months ago

    I’m sure you have considered it, but just in case …. What about removing the blank spaces and putting the perpendicular cabinets in those spaces? I think you would get more storage by doing so. On the right, you may be able to fit a 27” base (24” of blank space plus the 3” filler). Similar story on the left side. § If you wanted the extra counter space, perhaps a butcher block island on wheels would help. And it could be tucked away next to the fridge when not in use. § Just something to think about until the more experienced folks chime in. Good luck with your project.

  • 8 months ago

    Otter play— I’m not sure I’m understanding. Do you mean putting an upper that goes to the counter?

  • 8 months ago


    Oh, maybe this? That gives more cabinet space, but less counter space. Which is preferable?

  • 8 months ago

    Yes, that. And it allows you to have more counter space between the sink and stove. It is preferable - its more useful counter space, though less square footage (cheaper, too!)

    3pinktrees thanked emilyam819
  • 8 months ago



    3pinktrees thanked wdccruise
  • 8 months ago



    3pinktrees thanked wdccruise
  • 8 months ago

    So the window across that back wall actually goes almost hte whole length-- with the trim it goes to probably 6 inches from the wall. We won't be able to have any uppers, and not sure how to vent, but I know people do have big windows in front of their stoves, so there must be a way to do it. Downdraft I guess?

  • 8 months ago

    The window actaully goes up to about 6 inches from the wall on both sides, so we won't be able to have uppers. Otherwise I would have put the fridge on that wall-- I really don't love the fridge there but I can't figure out anywhere else to put it.

  • 8 months ago



  • 8 months ago

    Check your local code--you likely cannot have the range in front of the window. Even if you can, though, I don't think you should--you'll be spending hours cleaning that window. I'd give some serious consideration to shrinking the window to allow for a better layout. It's much less expensive than you'd think. (Making it bigger/moving it is more involved, but going smaller is pretty straightforward--just have to be able to match the exterior.)

    I'd do Emily's L plan, roughly, but pull the window back enough to allow for a fridge at the end of the window wall, and then go 6" filler- 30" [or 27"] fridge-15" [or 18"] drawers - 30" sink - 18" corner access or drawers - 3" filler - 24" corner. Wrap the corner to 3" filler - 12" drawers - 24" range - 12" drawers. If you can go 6" closer to the doorway, do 15"/15" or 18"/12". (12" is skimpy but might be worth it to expand the corner prep space.) I'd go right up to kiss the trim given your layout.

    In a space this small, I would not void the corner if you can avoid it. Our space is a bit larger but I'm very glad we spent the money on the corner access solution--without it we would not have close to enough storage.

  • 8 months ago

    @artemis78: "I'd do Emily's L plan, roughly, but pull the window back enough to allow for a fridge at the end of the window wall"

    The OP explained that the window runs nearly the entire width of the room, stopping only 6" from the adjacent walls which is why she didn't propose putting the refrigerator on the window wall.

  • 8 months ago

    Right--that's why I proposed reducing the size of the window. :)

  • 8 months ago
    last modified: 8 months ago

    More base cabinet space, larger refrigerator & smaller freezer, more wall cabinet space. Range can substitute for oven and cooktop. Error! freezer is 18", not 15".


    -----

    @artemis78: "Right--that's why I proposed reducing the size of the window. :)"

    Right--it's easy to come up with a solution when the change the question. :)

  • 8 months ago
    last modified: 8 months ago

    Hi 3pimktrees! Glad to see you are still making progress.

    So I’ll have to re-read, but iirc, is the nook bump out where the only windows are in the whole space?

    Can you redraw the whole apartment showing the placement of the planned bathroom and the approximate space the bed will go?

    ETA: If you could show a layout something like this would be great!


  • 8 months ago

    Ok, I re-read a little and found this comment you made about the bump out after Hanna suggested moving the kitchen over there.

    The windows are staying (the ceiling is full height there and they're the only windows other than the full lite door). They will be replaced with opening windows and made a bit bigger because the current ones are fixed and small.

    I do think that's an interesting idea and would make the kitche so bright and cheerful. The only issues I see with that are that the plumbing would be farther from the drain connection (at the 'back' of the proposed spots for the kitchen and bath- I'm not sure if that's an actual problem or not) and that the kitchen would stick out of the bumpout into the main area, perhaps quite a ways? The bumpout is around 4' deep and 10' long. That would give 6 feet of cabinetry and then an extra 24" on each side if it was a U. I guess if we extended one end as a peninsula maybe it would work?


    So wow! I guess I remembered correctly after all for once, lol!

    I assume they are still small and ”fixed” windows at this point? Let us know what is existing as of right now and show us some photos of the space if possible. That would help immensely!

    3pinktrees thanked rebunky
  • 8 months ago

    @3pinktrees and others who may be interested. If you want to post a piece of paper electronically and have all the details clearly visible and legible, consider the free app called CamScanner. Even if you don't photograph the paper at the perfect angle, even if it isn't perfectly flat, CamScanner will touch it up afterwards so most things end up looking perfect. Works on any smart phone. Nothing wrong with posting an actual photo, but I find it incredibly helpful for so many tasks and am grateful someone told me about it. Seems like it would be really helpful on HOUZZ.

    3pinktrees thanked kl23
  • 8 months ago


    Rebunky. Yes, the windows are still small (top to bottom) and fixed. However, we are planning on changing them to opening and possibly a little bigger. I will try to get a picture later today.


    How much clearance needs to be between fridge and stove at minimum? I’m wondering if I could squeeze the fridge and stove both on the longer side wall.


    The bathroom door will go as far over as possible and be a 24” door (I know that’s a small door, but im ok with it in this space).

  • 8 months ago


    Here is the view of the proposed kitchen location.


    This is the back section, the wall will extend across to create the rooms.


    This window will become a door and be the exit.

  • 8 months ago


    Looks like the second picture didn’t load. Here it is.

  • 8 months ago

    I will work on getting some more graph paper and redrawing just the blank space with measurements. The plumber comes the end of the month so I need to make final decisions.

  • 8 months ago

    Moves sink to middle, swaps cooktop & oven cabinet for range.


    3pinktrees thanked wdccruise
  • 8 months ago

    Wdccruise, do you have product links for a fridge and freezer that size? I tried to find something but I was mainly just seeing drink fridges and they were super pricey?

  • 8 months ago

    So to recap...

    This is for your single daughter correct?

    Any plans for renting it out in the future to someone else at some point?

    I see a little less then half of the back area is for a bathroom. Is the other ~ half for a bedroom? Or what is the plan for that space?

  • 8 months ago

    Also, can you add windows anywhere other then the bump out nook?

  • 8 months ago

    What I mean is if there will be an operable / egress window anywhere else but the kitchen nook area?

  • 8 months ago

    The goal for this space is for our daughter (and maybe other children as they get to that age). When our kids are out of the house, it can then function as a guest suite. In a pinch, our kids could live there as young marrieds as well while saving up for a home, etc. (Yes, I realize that not all kids would want to do this and obviously there would be absolutely no pressure, but if it's a way we could help them out financially they would be welcome to do it!)


    Our house is reasonably large, but the majority of the square footage is shared living space. There are only three bedrooms. We have 5 sons and 1 daughter, so our 5 sons have shared a room all their lives. Our oldest son will start college this coming year, and we'd really like to allow him to move out of the 5-boy room! He will be living at home for college at least his first year before he moves out on his own. The goal is to get our daughter (she's a college sophomore this year) into the apartment this spring/summer.


    So I realize this apartment is *very* cozy, but it works very well for our purposes.


    There will be egress windows in the 'kitchen' and then, of course, the door. We won't be adding more windows, but we will put in a solatube in the bathroom and the tiny bedroom. Obviously a bedroom normally has an egress window, but in this case the wall/door is more just to add some privacy (so that she can entertain without feeling like her guests are in her bedroom) as the whole apartment is little more spacious than a large American bedroom.



  • 8 months ago
    last modified: 8 months ago



    Liebherr CS1400RL 30 Inch Counter Depth Freestanding Bottom Freezer Refrigerator


    (Update 10/22: oven cannot be placed under downdraft induction cooktop.)

    3pinktrees thanked wdccruise
  • 8 months ago
    last modified: 8 months ago

    I was imagining the scenario where one of your kids lives here as a married couple for a year, or two… or more??? 😬

    Here is an idea I played around with.

    So yes, this kitchen is bigger then the other nook ideas.

    But, this kitchen idea is based on my personal experience of my husband and I living in a 450 sq ft tiny house for almost 3 years.

    Maybe for your kids’ lifestyle, this kitchen is way overkill.

    But for us, the kitchen appliance sizes, food storage, shower size, and space for our bed was what was most important to us to function in a tiny house,

    I know what you are thinking…. No! The guests need to access the bathroom without having to go through the bedroom area. I get it! I designed my tiny home based on that very scenerio.

    But from my experience, whenever I had guests over, they always wanted to see the whole space. They are facinated by it. I end up showing them everything, including my bedroom. I just make my bed and clean up any random clutter.

    My advice is… do not design the space for the once or twice a year scenario that someone stops by unexpectedly and says, oh hey, can I use your bathroom? You panic because you haven’t made the bed! Lol!


    Hmm, I did not do the mesurements on a queen size bed fitting. So may need to rearrange the bedroom / bath area??? 🤔

    3pinktrees thanked rebunky
  • 8 months ago

    Odd suggestion: Omit the cab beside the fridge. Put a single dish-drawer type dishwasher in the dead space corner to the left of the sink so that the drawer pulls out toward the fridge. If need be, dishes can just be stored in the dishwasher. (I wouldn’t suggest this in a full size kitchen, but this ain’t it. This kitchen needs multi-taskers.) The unused space in that area can be drawer storage for … whatever. If the space will be vacant for a while, move the clean dishes, etc to the fridge. § Possibly a terrible idea, but possibly not.

    3pinktrees thanked Otter Play
  • 8 months ago

    Rebunky— thanks for helping me think outside the box! I don’t see an issue with accessing the bath through the bedroom if we can get a queen to fit.



  • 8 months ago


    @rebunky —messing around with it and if we make the bathroom 4’ 6” and leave 4” for the wall, the bedroom can be 7’. That makes enough room for a queen with a couple inches breathing room to get the sheets on. Maybe pocket doors on bed and bath to make it feel less cramped. This gives plenty of room for the kitchen. Thoughts? what am I missing?

  • 8 months ago
    last modified: 8 months ago

    Ummm, would you like crawling into the bed and then back out to change the sheets?

    Two people in the bed means someone has to crawl over the other to pee at night?

    Where do they put their clothes, and store stuff?

    No, you cannot fit a bedroom and a bathroom in 11’10”! 🫣

    The only way I see this working is if you move the bathroom.

    Here is an idea. Needs tweaking of course, but something like this?

    The pocket door in the hall is optional. I just thought it might be nice if it could be closed off as a master suite. If guests are over, open it so they can access the bathroom?


    My main goal was to allow at least the living room to have natural light and sight lines out the kitchen windows.

    TV could go on the wall above the dining table.

    ETA: Oh cr@p, I just remembered it is a shorter wall with the angled ceiling on the left side of the bed! Would that be a head banger?

    Maybe this is better?


    Sorry I keep on editing… I keep coming back after thinking of something to tweak! 😂


  • 8 months ago
    last modified: 8 months ago

    Ok, throwing another wrench. The bathroom has to be in that back corner to connect properly with plumbing😬


    Also, the angled wall shouldn’t pose problems for heads. It angles very gently and pretty high up.

  • 8 months ago

    When we added our bathroom, we looked at one placement similar to what your drawing shows. The best plan I found was for a 4x8 bathroom that had a 4'x3' shower, a wall-hung toilet, and a 30" vanity along the long wall, with a pocket door that opened opposite the vanity. I think that might work in your space, with the door on the end near the kitchen. It would give you ~7'6" in one dimension (48" of bathroom plus thickness of the wall) and then I'd pull the other wall out to 10' for a 7'6" x 10' space, which also gives the kitchen U an extra 2' of wall space to work with. You could technically squish a queen sized bed in there, but a full would have more breathing room.

    Note that if you put a wall and door on the bedroom, you will need to add a window in the room for egress. (That's code but also just basic safety--in case of a fire you need at least two ways out.) If that's really not feasible (not sure if those are outside walls from the plans?) you'll want to skip the door and keep it open to the kitchen space instead, studio apartment style. You may want to do that anyway to keep the extra inches.

  • 8 months ago

    @artemis78: "When we added our bathroom, we looked at one placement similar to what your drawing shows."

    Which drawing does "your drawing" refer to?

  • 8 months ago

    @wdccruise sorry--meant OP's hand-drawn drawing on lined paper. Basically that layout but narrowed to 4', with a pocket door and wall-hung toilet.

    OP, I'm assuming you're on slab and that's why you're not moving plumbing--but if that's not the case, I'd get a quote on moving it. It may be far less costly than you think and could open up a lot more layout options.