Hi GreyGal, There are folks such as yourself that like to stake weepers that will get out of control in terms of twisting and turning and spreading ...and you never know what they are going to do. I'm only going to jump in one last time and say that pruning and staking these type of plants which have no natural behavior to grow upward on their own are a lot of work, in my opinion. They generally are used for places what have 10 or more feet of width... if planted, properly. A lot of we folks here have seen A LOT of conifers and old and new gardens in our time. I'm one of them. I've seen plants now being yanked from arboretums where they planted something 20 years ago that is at it's prime now and it's simply taken over. I'm just reminding you among my friends that you are not clearly thinking this matter through. Everyone knows I have my own philosophy to give a plant the space it needs or I don't plant it. Some folks probably think I'm a little over the top. But I plan ahead... Even something such as Sciadopity's verticillata 'Cynthia Waxman' is a grand choice for that spot. It's "dwarf" - where myself and member bboy/Ron are going with our thoughts. I'll link you to a nursery that has 3 and 5 gallon plants of this very unique pine known as Umbrella pine so you don't have to wait to get started, i.e. Some will say that 'Niagra Falls' white pine has better spacial limitations for a smaller area, but, it will out-compete space, you better believe it. Those three Japanese white pines I suggested are gorgeous. They grow upright on their own, and they will live without maintenance in your spot for a very long time. I can assure of that. Now I'll step away after I've made my peace. Dax Here is a link that might be useful: Broken Arrow Nursery This post was edited by gardener365 on Fri, Aug 23, 13 at 18:58

Have you tried the Tropicalesque forum? There is a thread for hardy plants that look tropical. They can save you a lot of labor and/or expense replanting every year, unless that is no object for you. I have a tropical hummingbird garden, that I hope to add a small water feature to. I am definitely going start putting in more of the hardy plants - it was overwhelming wintering over and starting seeds and planting out. Hosta, bamboo, hellebore, pawlonia and catalpa (you can cut these way down every year and keep them small - the leaves are even bigger on the new growth), big grasses mixed with lilies, some bananas (Musa basjoo and sikkamensis), staghorn sumac (especially the cutleaf form, like a giant fern), ferns of course, hibiscus coccinea, and plenty of water plants are all hardy. Tubers and bulbs like cannas are easy to overwinter, and fast growing. Big leaf magnolia if you want a big tree, magnolia grandiflora for a small tree with shiny evergreen leaves and velvet undersides (deer killed the last for me - twice). Rhododendrons also evergreen. Vines - hops, honeysuckle, climbing hydrangea. Annuals - castor bean, very fast growing and deadly poison. Morning glory family also fast growing, mina lobata different and exotic. Lablab, another quick vine. Things that are so fast you can plant the seeds in the ground, very labor-saving. Things that like heat. Salvias like heat and a surprising number like damp ground. It's not a big deal when the frost kills a tropical or its top - the cannas go black over night and I cut them down, no long ugly decline, but I am glad I have enough hardy perennials and shrubs mixed in so the garden isn't bare. If you already know what plants you want and just need a designer to put them together in an artful way - please excuse me. A designer being out of my budget, I just fool around with combinations, perspective, concealment and revelation - and use enough of a plant to make an impact. Lisa

Thanks Embrothrium, I know what you mean about mature size. I know they never stop growing but I think in our difficult Midwest climate we simply don't have the giant trees encountered in the Pacific NW or even the East coast. Our area was prairie before it became farm and now suburban. There simply aren't any really big trees older than 30 years in my area (35 miles SW of Chicago). I talked to an old farmer down the road (corn and soy) and he said drive around and look at Norway spruces. Measure the width of the biggest one... and go from there. He was right, actually. The largest one I could find was in town (of ~24,000 people) and near the high school. It still wasn't that big. The other ones were on his property and although not as tall, they were good sized specimens that were well-spaced. I figure between droughts, wind, clay, and cold, even the hardiest spruce or pine isn't going to live up to its full potential. The pic is deceiving, the silver car is a Monte Carlo, 197 inches long (~16.4 feet). I tried to plant the spruces on 15 foot centers especially on the North side of the property. I was looking at small deciduous shrubs and grasses that can be moved about once the trees start to reach their potential. Interesting take on grafts. I always look for own root roses as well, it never occurred to me about the grafted conifers of which I was leaning towards. Maybe I should sit out a few years and observe the average growth of some of these as they could become monsters assuming they all flourish, correct?

Here's a picture of a variegated cypress that is a reversion I let go - for now I've seen other examples of that same - or a similar - variegated Sawara* producing a tree habit. I don't know what the correct naming of the cultivar is. And I spent some time looking into it, some years ago. At that time at least it was another one of those garden plant identification subjects where printed photos and descriptions don't match the material at hand. Trying again now with the web being so much in the picture might produce a different outcome. Anyway since it is basically the same foliage on a differently shaped plant I don't know that I would call it a reversion. And I certainly like the cultivar as a small conical tree better than the tuffet it comes from the nursery as. *Sawara cultivars are often quite polymorphic and unstable