Northerndaylily. You are a good writer. I love to read posts that make me think and that tap into my other emotions. I'm not sure where you stand in the area of hybridizing, or if it matters that much. I get the feeling you are more on the purchasing end than the hybridizing end, but again, that is just a guess. One of the very first things I learned when I decided to hybridize (after the fact that there were diploids and tetraploids)was that if I was going to order a daylily from a photo, that I should be not surprised if it didn't exactly match the photo when it bloomed. Early on, I made a pact with myself that I wouldn't spend good money on one until I saw it in person. That didn't last long, but the point was, and still is, I don't think it takes too long for anyone beginning out in our hobby to find out this fact. It doesn't hurt to tell them up front, like on this forum, but if they are anything like me, experience will be their greatest teacher. Let me preface this by stating that the AHS is not responsible for what the hybridizers do. It is not a policing organization any further than it does make certain that it's rules are followed, as much as possible, when they are used. They can suggest that all hybridizers be honest, but they can't stop them if they are not honest. We pass laws to drive the speed limit, that doesn't stop everyone from speeding. I do take exception to your statement "to critique the AHS establishment...or tell the truth isn't looked on kindly." Those are two very different thoughts, but linking them together would insinuate that one is the other. I really don't believe this is fair critiquing at all, more like leading the reader to a conclusion. Being a member of the AHS for 12 + years now, and being a member of the robin, I can say truthfully that the establishment gets critiqued on a regular basis, from inside and from outside. There is no guard at the door. It takes a while for groups to change and policies to change, but they certainly do, maybe not as fast as we would like. "To tell the truth isn't looked on kindly." That can be true of any hobby, and probably is, but people died for our right to freedom of speech, whether or not it is looked on kindly. That is unquestionably one of the great things about our Country. Therefore it is not only our right, but our duty to question. But to say it isn't looked on kindly, so what? If you believe it, say it anyhow. There is no group of people I know of that are going to gang together and throw you out of the room for it. There are some fantastic people in the AHS that would back anyone up for their right to their opinion. "Do they Care"? I would say the hybridizers who alter pictures don't care as much as they could. They have allowed their desire to sell or to be noticed or whatever motivitates them to supercede good judgement. Does that mean they are horrible people? "All have sinned and come short..." He who is free from making mistakes cast the first stone. We are not here to judge. I would say that it doesn't go on forever. I have seen dishonest people come and go, but very few last. And I've seen some get better after they have come to their senses. We all deserve another chance. If we buy from someone who falls into this category, the clear thing to do it to confront them, sometimes mistakes are made, and then if no remorse is presented, then don't buy from them again. It doesn't take long for the word to spread. The newer enthusiast needs to know a 'lot' of things. I'm new at 13 years and still learning. Good stuff there. As far as not growing in garden soil, I would say it happens, but to say in very many cases would take intense study to be 100% factual. And I agree that in these cases the vigor could certainly be a question. "The largest share of new intros. are developed in very warm climates." Without doing inventory I would say at best 50/50 based on the fact that there are more members north of the mason-dixon line than south. As far as them dying with a hard freeze, I've only lost one plant in 13 years. I know people in Canada who buy most of the florida line and rarely loose a plant. Then there are those who lose many. I really think that this can be more 'area' or region related than north and south related. But again, my opinion simply based on knowing a lot of hybridizers. I've read a few posts from some of the top hybridizers that tell how a flower in their garden looked totally different in a garden a thousand miles away. That just can't be denied. And please, let me know what this 'perfect' mix is so I can get some. "many of the new intros are best characterized as 'greenhouse' genetics....in no way garden plants." What percentage is 'many'. Yes there are some, but 'many' can be misleading--whether or not it was intended to be. "And yes several growers acknowledge their intro's are indeed 'hybridizing' plants...which begs the question: are the greenhouse genetics of use in the garden...longterm?" I have many 'hybridizing' plants. I do not have a greenhouse. To insinuate that a hybridizing plant is a greenhouse plant is mis-leading. These are two totally different purposes and again that sentence would lead a beginner to think they are one in the same. Not too helpful in my opinion. "Many a new hybridizer with a few plant crops will state they get nothing...nothing from crossing latest and most hyped to their good garden daylilies." I hybridized for 4 generations before I got anything I thought was worthy of even analyzing. And I believe that is more the norm than not. If it were that easy, there would be many more dayliles introduced sooner. It is time-consuming and takes a certain art, time, and even some luck to come up with a unique program by any hybridizer. I just don't see where that has anything to do with other hybridizers doing anything wrong or underhanded. "Budcount and branching data? Mostly fictional"...sometimes I wonder. I have rarely seen the branching from a southern plant be matched when grown in the north. But then again, we learn that after a while, and I really don't see in the catalogs where they say, this will grow equally as much in your area as here. Some things I hybridized won't grow in the south, just a fact with daylilies. I can use a bad-northern grower if it has something I want and produce great northern plants, it just takes a while to learn all this and where to spend your money and what you expect to get for it. If you are buying just for garden appeal, then don't go south unless you have money to burn. Some things will do quite well, but a lot of things won't flourish like we would want a garden plant to. I'm not sure about the groupie comments. I've been invited to talk to a half-dozen clubs in the next six months. I have never introduced a daylily until this month and have no groupies. People are asking me because they like my product and I have many asking to be put on a waiting list. Maybe this groupie thing happens, but if it does, for the most part I am totally ignorant of it, or have buried my head in the sand. I know in our club that we are all so busy doing our gardens etc., that there isn't time to be a groupie. I'm glad that you say "not all the growers fit this profile above." I've had conversation with a few hybridizers whose names are well known, we all agree not everything grows everywhere... therefore,I would not just ask, I would insist on answers to my questions or I would go somewhere else. I can go out in my garden of 5000+ plus daylilies and see very vigorous to wimpy. I would say that the 'hardy' tough characteristic is not lost forever. Many hybridizers I know are breeding for only that, looking past pretty for hardy. And I truly believe it should always be a concern. I think your post was a good one, I really feel anger coming from you...that's okay, but I defend your right to post whatever you like...keep in mind that there is a rule on the Daylily Robin of 'flaming' others. There have been some eliminated from it for that. Maybe that's why you don't see a ton of controversy on it. There are many hybridizers who give dayliles to all kinds of people, churches etc...simply to promote them. Money doesn't rule everyone's lives. I just don't see the Merry-go-round you mention. Parts of it are very true, but there are too many good folks involved at this point to let anything get so out of hand it isn't repariable. These facts are out there also...Bob

Well, like everyone else, I've been wading through the new online Hosta Journal and I'm still trying to formulate a final opinion of it. I'll be the first one to say that I'd rather have a paper copy- bound and full of wonderful color photos- that I can just pull off my shelf and flip through in the evening on those long winter nights. Or grab on my way out the door to read over and over again on my breaktime at work. But at the same time, I understand the realities of dwindling membership along with the increasing costs of printing and mailing paper copies throughout the year. Like they say, money doesn't grow on trees (or in our hosta gardens, either!). Probably like you, I was quite skeptical of the value and usability of an online magazine when I first heard about it several months ago. I couldn't see how it would be nearly as good as a printed copy. And I thought that any benefits of an online Journal would be minimal compared with a hard copy in my hand. My first impression of the online Journal was very positive soon after it was posted earlier this week. First of all, it was easily accessible. Secondly, it was formatted exactly like my printed Journal, which I found quite helpful. Thirdly, it was chuck full of MANY great articles and good photos. Fourthly, it was easy to use and I could enlarge the photos for better viewing, with the click of my mouse. Fifthly, it was very professional looking, just like the printed version. And fifthly, I haven't lost it yet, whereas my paper copies are usually left all over the house- on my desk, the magazine rack, and under the bed after I'm done reading in the evening. I know where to find the online Journal. Like you, I'm gradually making my way through all of the articles in the online Journal. There's definately way too much good information to just plop down and read all the way through in one sitting. I scoured around and found some of my old Journals, and saw that the printed Journals have about 82-84 pages of material. With the new online Journal, I've tallied up all the articles and discovered that there's a whopping total of 203 pages!!! (See the tally sheet below.) If there's any criticism, it's that the new online Journal is a bit overwhelming! But that's a good criticism, as I appreciate being overwhelmed with hosta material like this! The more great photos of gardens and hostas I can browse, the better! I found there's stuff in the online Journal for everyone- amateur and professional alike. Some of it is very practical, some of it scientific/technical. Overall, my current opinion is that the online Journal is wonderful and the multitude of volunteers who've dedicated so much time and work to bring all of us such a great resource have done an outstanding job! A big "thank you" to all who were involved! A couple of questions I have are: Will each edition of the online Journal remain on the AHS website indefinately, for future reference? If I let my AHS membership lapse or expire, will I lose my ability to access the online Journals which I've paid for when my membership was current? Just curious how it will work in the future. And now, back to the online Journal. Happy reading! How long is the new online Journal? Front Cover- 1 page Contents- 3 pages About the New Online Journal- 3 pages Notes From the Editors- 4 pages President's Message- 2 pages Letters from Readers- 1 page Divisions- 3 pages This and That: 2010- 6 pages Standout Hostas- 3 pages Holistic Hosta Gardening- 3 pages Hot Hostas- 2 pages Focused on Hostas- 3 pages Preparing for a Convention Tour in My Garden- 4 pages Handling a Poorly Rooted Division- 3 pages A Southern Blight Strategy- 3 pages 2010 Alex J. Summers Distinguished Merit Award- 6 pages 2010 Eunice Fisher Distinguished Hybridizer Merit Award- 4 pages 2010 Benedict Garden Performance Program- 1 page Other 2010 American Hosta Society Awards- 2 pages The Traver Garden- A Treasure in those Wolcott Hills- 3 pages What's a Mini Hosta? Update, Critique & Where to Next?- 5 pages Building a Permanent Raised Bed- 4 pages A Hosta of a Different Color- 4 pages Reflections on the AHS Alex J. Summers Award- 5 pages Reprint of 1982 Summers Award Speech- 4 pages Report on the HVX Research Program- 4 pages Harold McDonell: A New Facet Revealed- 4 pages What's New at Q and Z? - An Interview with Mark Zilis- 5 pages Fall Slug Control- 3 pages Centerfold- 2 pages 2010 National Convention, Bloomington MN- 61 pages! Winter Scientific- 3 pages Hosta College- 4 pages First Look 10- 4 pages Midwest Regional- 2 pages Dixie Regional- 2 pages Our Next Convention Hosts- 4 pages Is Your Membership Current?- 2 pages Conventions, CONVENTIONS, Conventions- 2 pages AHS Online Auction 2011 - Rally 'Round!- 2 pages Call for Nominations for Summers and Fisher Awards- 4 pages Where are the Guest Plants?- 3 pages AHS Announcements- 2 pages Board of Directors- 3 pages Our Advertisers- 5 pages Back Cover- 1 page ________________________ Grand Total - 203 pages!!!

* Posted by dixiedog_2007 (My Page) on Mon, Feb 18, 08 at 22:47 Well I'm late to the party! I have made some of the dishes already posted and I can vouch for how good they are. Some new ones posted that have been copied & pasted and put in my "TO TRY" file. My TO TRY file is getting quite large! For a MD boy saying that Old Bay is not good enough...well, I don't know how to respond to that. Looks like I have some neighbors on this board. I'm an Old Bay lover - we put it on corn-on-the-cob, coleslaw, etc. YUM! Well dixiedog, I do owe "you" an apology in my opinion! I had been attacked previously several times by some guys on this forum to the extent that it had just plain made me paranoid towards any one that I thought was a man! I am sincerely sorry! When I read your response I thought it was an attack on me as presenting untrue statements. The things I told you about the commercial guys is basically true as heck although they will not admit it because of the "Aura" that OB has established with tourists and residents as well. It's the "if it ain't old Bay it's not original BS" As I said I use it lots (shrimp, crabs+other), crab cakes, etc,. and so do "some" crab guys in Maryland, but is it the best for crabs, NO! I have set in too many crab feasts in my buddy's crab shack and other places and heard people say " You just can't get that taste from anything but OB", we just laugh! I hope you accept my apology, if not, that's OK to. Changeling

Such an interesting topic! I've a few thoughts on this too. Been in this 1950 cottage-ranch house with galley kitchen for 17-years now and have learned to make it work through compromise and concession. We've never changed the footprint because it is as efficient as it can be without knocking walls out. We did upgrade to hubby's choice of a Bosch electric range and Bosch dishwasher - we love them! He's very good at the technical aspect of all those items we can't live without now (DW, fridge, range, washer/dryer, etc.) Married 30+ years to a guy who often would like to "hover" (not in a helpful way) when I was cooking so I now see our galley "one-butt" kitchen has a kind of advantage - no room for hovering! I am one that likes my personal space when working in the kitchen. When our children were at home I did most of the kitchen prep and clean up - just worked better that way. Now I still do food prep and cleanup unless hubby has decided to make a special meal and then I just stay out of the way. Our DW is located right across from fridge with the usual problem, only one door can be opened at a time. We've learned to work around that and take turns when needed. One thing I've decided I would change sometime is the divided sink. It's a grand old heavy porcelain sink, expensive to replace but so awkward to work with. I'd love to have a large famhouse sink, the kind with the apron instead. Isn't it funny what we think we must have though? I lived in the UK in the 1970s with relatives and just about everyone had very small galley kitchens (old 2-story Edwardian London houses) and made them work. Most everyone had small counters, made of stainless steel with grooves one side for the "washing up." Range was small 24" and the fridges were the 4 cubic ft. small ones we see in Home Depot. Most people went shopping every day or so. Oh, and the gas "immersion" that one had to light each time to start the "cooker." At anyrate, people entertained and put on dinners quite well with these tiny kitchens. FWIW I too have a hubby who will stand and gaze in the fridge and ask..."what should I have for ...dinner/lunch....?" and also leave a trail of bits of rubbish when the pullout bin is steps away. Go figure! But, he's wonderful at fixing so many things and has saved us a bundle from repair bills. All boils down to give-and-take when you share a home with people I guess.