Fifteen inches to center is code. Is this job permitted? If so, what did the plans that were submitted show?

Curious why there is no toe kick on the vanity? Who designed this? Those cabinet fronts are going to be kicked a lot!

There are toe kicks thats just the illusion of a weird angle, they are recessed so you cant see them. My gc designed it. I signed off but I didnt know they would be wider. The plans say 37 and they are 37 3/4 and i think maybe slightly more to the left. Should i tell him i want him to redo? Who eats cost on something like this? He said for small stuff we didnt need to permit and i didnt know any better…

Did your plan show the distance between the toilet and the vanity?

It never occurred to me he would put something a little bit bigger in. Im just a homeowner so toilet clearance wasnt really on my radar.

Your plans call for 37.5", so the actual is only off by .25". It looks like the toilet center was not dimensioned properly on the plan.

So they didnt put it in the correct space on the plan? Im going to go take a bunch more measurements. And then see what it would have looked like if properly dimensioned.

Ok i measured and the back wall of my bathroom and its 65” not 72”. OMG Thats not even close.

Is this work being permitted?

No i was told it didnt need to be.

This is the cabinet guys measurements.

Who is on the hook for this? me? the cabinet guy? my gc?

You probably should have brought it up before the tops were measured and installed. It's not just the cost of the vanity, but also the new top and installation, and moving the plumbing and electrical centers. If your old vanity was close to the same size (only off by .75") then it also wasn't to code. There are plenty of old houses with clearances tighter than 15" and it's not the type of thing that would come up in a home inspection when you sell. So I don't think you need to do anything.

As the consumer, a sign off means you have reviewed, verified and approved the plans. When dealing with construction or anything custom, the client has a responsibility to understand what they are purchasing. If you sign off on something, the contractor or vendor assumes you did your due diligence. They don't know what you don't know.

Isn’t that why i have a gc though? To point out stuff like this?

Even though their measurements where wrong? If the drawing had the correct measurements i never would have okayed them because i would have visually seen how off it was.

Like I said, your new vanity is not substantially different than the old. So I don't think your GC would have known that you needed anything pointed out.

its not but the wall they put it on is way shorter than whats in their drawing. The wall is 65 not 72.

Why say its 72 if its not?

I hear what you are saying about the vanity size. I am very disappointed. This isnt the only issue we’ve had.

Probably because this is the cabinet maker's plan, not the construction drawings. And the overall dimension and/or toilet center didn't really affect what they were directed to do for the vanity, which was to replace what was there with the same.

Thats makes sense. All of his other wall measurements are correct i should add. I went and checked everything else. Only that one is off. Because i started measuring everything i came across a possible shower issue. Code for showers is 30” Is that the usable interior space or from outside of a curb? We were planning to replace a tub/shower with a standing shower with a curb and frameless glass door. With the 6” curb the interior space of the shower would only be 26”. Thats not ok right?

I figure i could do a cast iron shower base instead to save space. Alcove is 32.

We are stopping all other construction and checking everything before we continue. Ive lost confidence in our gc.

I should have hired a designer.

I really dislike when I'm asked to replace a tub with a shower for this very reason. If there is no room to expand, they are too tight. I think a shower base is a good space-saving solution.

Im so annoyed though my gc never mentioned how tight it would be so now I’ve purchased all my tiles. Do you have a preference for shower base materials? Cast iron looks nice. Or maybe stone composite? I have a cheap acrylic one in my primary and i dont like it at all. It stained and i could never clean it properly.

Palimpsest, I think the toilet we will just live with. I bought a freestanding tp holder because it can no longer fit on the vanity side. None of us are of a size that would have an issue with it. It just looks cramped to me.

Whether the work needs to be permitted depends upon (i) the applicable jurisdiction (cities have different requirements for when a permit is required - although some things - like moving plumbing - is most likely universally required - unless you live in an area where permits aren't required for anything = not many places), and (ii) scope of work being performed.

Permits are determined by the city where I live. For example, with respect to bathrooms in my city, switching out vanities, toilets, tile on shower/tub walls/lighting fixtures, shower/tub fixtures (= tub spout, mixing valve, shower head), floor tile, and replacing a rough-in valve in tub/shower do NOT require pulling a permit. If, however, I wanted to move my toilet drain over an inch, I would need a permit. If I wanted to move my shower/tub drain location, a permit would be needed.

So, depending upon the scope of work for your bathroom + the applicable jurisdiction where you live =whether a permit was required.

With respect to code requirements, depedning upon what state you live in will determine which version of building code will be applicable. For example, where I live, the 2018 building code has been adopted in our state (although that was only done in the last couple of years - was 2012 fairly recently). I believe that 15” on center from walls/vanities/tubs requirement for toilets has been required for quite awhile (it was when my house was built in 1996).

So you have a drawing of the space before any work was done? I’m just wondering if there was 15” clearance to center on both sides of your toilet prior to your contravtor doing any work. Was your bathtub replaced? Just wondering because the clearance in the drawing you posted is not at 15”.

Your cabinet guy is not going to be on the hook. Whether your GC is on the hook - depends upon all relevant facts + applicable laws/codes.

Most cities have building permit requirements accessible on the city’s website. Pull that up - and compare it to the scope of work that was done in your bathroom. As the homeowner, you are ultimately responsible to have work on your house permitted.

HOWEVER - most (if not all) states have enacted statutes covering residential renovations— there is not a uniform statute that is used (like there is a Uniform Residential Landlord-Tenant Act that has been adopted by states - where most of it is consistent between states - individual states typically decide to change more minor aspects of the Act as originally drafted before enacting it into law). So, depending upon where you live will determine what your statute requires of your contractor (in addition to what is included in your contract).

For example, in my state, there is a provision that requires a contractor to perform all work in a good and workmanlike manner - which has been interpreted by an appellate court to require a contractor to comply with all applicable laws/codes/regulations/etc. + established industry standards (for example, while tiling contractors don’t need a license, they are subject to this statute which has been interpreted to required compliance with TCNA guidelines + manufacturers’ specifications).

Do not panic if you don’t have a written contract. While many times people will scare an OP by posting a comment that basically says that if there isn’t a written contract, he he/she has no recourse. That simply is not true. In some cases (for example, in CA), if a contractor fails to have a written contract, he/she cannot sue to recover any money from a homeowner.

If you are confused about any if the above. let me know.

Wow okay, Im reading now about Florida’s good workmanship guarantee under an implied warranty of fitness.

Dani, no tub stayed the same. Before work was done clearance was almost 15 on the tub side and almost 15 on the other but only to the toe kick,. Our neigbor, the other half of our unit, their house is the same and i will go measure tomorrow. I have some pics of our old bathroom and i can see that the vanity regardless of size will installed at least two inches over from where it was. I can see because of the tiles in the back.

I’d be kind of disappointed your gc didn’t catch this and build it to code but can’t say i’m surprised. i’ve always looked up relavant code or asked gc when doing projects as i’ve done the designs myself - because i don’t necessarily trust others to get it right!

that being said if it’s just 3/4” off i’d live with it. it’s visually a tiny bit cramped but you’ll probably enjoy the extra vanity space too.

shower in bath space sounds tight. i’d probably just leave it tbh - at least shower curtains move when you bump them. i’ve never had anything else thoughthankfully so don’t hate them yet. our neighbors on same layout had to push bath 1’ into kitchen space to get a reasonable shower and get everything to meet current code. i’m sicking with the bath lol.

A shower base would be to code though. It wouldn’t have a 6” curb so it wouldn’t eat the space. Or i could just get a new tub. Its the guest bath I could live with it. If i dont do a shower with glass surround then i save enough money to just buy a nice tub. My custom glass surround was around 1k i think.

I meant a cast iron like the kohler ones. The curbs arent as wide.

Since you have stopped work, please check with your city to see if you should have a permit, before you go any further. If you do need a permit, they could make all the work done so far be removed, and redone. Usually when a contractor doesnt want to get a permit, its because, he knows, his work, wont pass inspection.

I would definitely not go and try to permit it now. you’d have to pay for everything to be redone! And on your own dime as you agreed to do it wiithout permit…. i suppose it depends where you are but unpermitted work where i am is super common and no one makes you redo stuff for another project. I know other places are different. also i would certainly not expect changing a bath vanity to require one?

I think they might have meant to permit the upstairs work. Our downstairs is mostly finished. We have paused starting the upstairs until we are all on the same page.

Give it a test before taking any other action please.

Joseph, its usable by us for sure. We are waiting for contractor to call us back today. Ill see how that convo goes. After i remeasured everythting the plans for the primary bath is scrapped. It wont fit without causing the same issue. I’m not doing that again. Guest bath also is too tight but thats the interior of the shower not a toilet crowding issue.

No i was told it didnt need to be.

You need to check to see if this is true about not needing to be permitted. If it does need to be permitted, you have a case for him being on the hook.

I would definitely not go and try to permit it now. you’d have to pay for everything to be redone! And on your own dime as you agreed to do it wiithout permit…. i suppose it depends where you are but unpermitted work where i am is super common and no one makes you redo stuff for another project. I know other places are different. also i would certainly not expect changing a bath vanity to require one?

HOGWASH! The GC would absolutely be on the hook if it needed to be permitted. At least here in my city in FL.

We just spoke with him. He is coming tomorrow to look at everything. He was receptive. Im making a list and after i see with him im going to see if i can hire a bath designer by the hour to check everything over. So i know what i dont know. We are in Florida as well so if thats the case where you are its probably true here too. Im in palm beach county.

K A - a few things:

First, back in 2021, Florida amended its statute covering contractor licensing. Prior to the amendment, local governments were allowed to establish their own requirements re: licensing (similar to where I live). Any licenses issued by local governments will be phased out through July 2023 (although it appears that counties and municipalities will still have the ability to issue journeyman licenses for HVAC, pipefitting, and plumbing trades).

Licensing will be handled through the DBPR (Dept. of Business and Professional Regulation) - which includes the Florida Real Estate Commission and the Construction Industry Licensing Board.

Second, if a homeowner KNOWINGLY hire an unlicensed contractor, there are various consequences (e.g., if the unlicensed contractor disregards code requirements - and someone is injured as a result thereof = liability created for homeowner), in addition to damage to homeowner’s property + extra costs to remediate. Also, if you submit an insurance claim related to a construction defect under your property insurance, and the insurer discovers that defect was caused by an unlicensed contractor (with your knowledge) = may create an issue for you depending upon the terms of your policy. Plus, homeowners open themselves up to various fees/penalties from building authorities.

FYI - a contractor who works without a required license can be subject to criminal consequences (first degree misdemeanor for first-time offense - third degree felony for a repeated offense!)

If you discover that your contractor is unlicensed after he/she peovided services, you may not have to pay for any of those services (regardless of whether performed correctly or not). Florida has a statute that generally voids contracts where the contractor was unlicensed as of the effective date of the contract.

Lasty, it appears that Florida’s local governing bodies are pretty strict re: what requires a permit. Here is what I found in Palm Beach County (pls note that it appears that they list only what items do not require a permit) :

Hopefully, you’re getting all of this worked out w/ your contractor - just thought I’d share sime general information.

Ok so we saw our contractor again and he is going to fix the vanity. Turns out our cabinet guy measured it wrong to begin with. The drawings they gave me that they said were the same footprint werent and vwhat they delivered was even bigger than that. Our neighbor who is in a mirror image of our unit put theirs up for sale and i saw what their bathroom looked like. It was obviously very different than what our is now. We went over and took measurements. I am so releived. Jan! you will be happy we are removing the ledge over the toilet when we fix the vanity. So now… i want to ask. what do people think of kohler maxstow medicine cabinets? Im thinking of using a 30x40. That or a framed one. thoughts? Should i put shelving over the toilet? glass or wood?

Okay so this was a long time coming. Everything was fixed to code. I am happy and relieved .

I realize this would be a big undertaking, but I would recommend centering the toilet on the end wall of the bathroom, which is left of the sink. Then, I would suggest borrowing three feet from the adjacent room (opposite the front edge of the sink) and recessing the tub into this borrowed space. As I said, it is a huge project, but it is what I would do to add space to such tight quarters.