How Should I Train These Two Vines?

10 months ago

last modified: 10 months ago

I have a huge container with a Lavender Trump Vine (NOT Campsis radicans!) on the left side and a Clematis on the right side. I have colored lines in the photo below that show the current training path for both plants. Please give me some ideas for how I can complete the training as they climb higher. Should they wander sideways, wander up at angles, or whatever else?

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gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)

10 months ago

It's been my experience over multiple decades of both personal and professional gardening that vines of different species do not thrive in combination. One will always exceed the vigor and growth rate of its partner and become dominant and overwhelm the other. This is even more likely when combining an evergreen and a deciduous vine. The evergreen will win, hands down!! Heck, it is even tricky pairing two different types of clematis together!

Also, the two vines you are showing in that container are planted far too close together. Sorry but this experiment seems doomed from the start.

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Comments (7)

floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK
10 months ago
What Clematis is it? Most will not grow anything like as big and dense as the Lavender TV and would be swamped.
westes Zone 9b California SF Bay thanked floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK
westes Zone 9b California SF Bay
Original Author
10 months ago
last modified: 10 months ago
@floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK The Clematis is Jackmanii Alba, which should grow to about three meters high.

This is not a monster Clematis like the Montana group, but it will not be invisible either. The flowers it produces are huge. I am thinking of it as an accent plant with an interesting leaf variation and a very different flower.
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I went the opposite way. When Deb first got some clematis (4), I planted them in pairs a foot apart. I didn't care how close they were. The things didn't take up as much room and were away from roses. After all... they were just weeds Deb wanted to have. It wasn't like they were important :) I didn't care if they competed for sun and root space. Somewhere along the line.... I became fond of the things. Watched Dr Ruppel strangle Ramona and Jackmanii almost did the same to Ernest Markham. I was amazed at the size of the rootballs when I dug up established clematis. The roots on our 12 year old Dr Ruppel are 2 feet in diameter. Don't know how deep they go on him. I had to move the 12 year old Jackmanii and it was 18 inches in diameter and 2 feet deep. I began to respect them as good plants in their own right. I was also glad I had planted clematis at least 2 feet from the roses. Never expected weed roots to get so large. Hope you realize I am a very strange gardener. I get claustrophobic seeing clematis wrapped around rose canes. I try to keep the clematis on the fence or trellis. I want the plants to have room for their roots to grow. It makes for a strange garden too :) It is a jungle but I like to consider it an organized jungle, lol. Not saying my way is right or that planting clematis a foot apart is wrong. Just trying to explain why I no longer plant them so close together. Have to admit, life was much simpler when I just planted the rascals together out of the way. How can a rose guy justify spending time taking care of weeds.... or, heaven forbid, using precious garden space for a nonrose??? *sigh* OK, I'll shutup :) On preview I realized we do have some new clematis I leave close to other plants. We find volunteer seedlings and leave them where they come up for a few years. A couple of them are huge now and I'm gonna have to transplant them soon. How did a rose guy get so tangled up in weeds??
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CA Kate z9
10 months ago
I second everything gardengal said.

Good luck!
westes Zone 9b California SF Bay thanked CA Kate z9
westes Zone 9b California SF Bay
Original Author
10 months ago
@gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9) Obviously the evergreen Lavender Trumpet Vine will fill the space. But won't the Clematis die back to roots every year and then grow back over the surface of the established vine? I thought of this as an accent plant, not a competition of equals.

How thick would the vines be at the base, when each plant reaches maturity?
gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
10 months ago
" But won't the Clematis die back to roots every year? "

No. Very few clematis die back to the roots. They are for the most part a permanent woody vine and Jackmanii Alba is a decently beefy one. Not as big as the TV but close to it. And this is also a type 2 clematis so would benefit from at least some light pruning annually, which will be complicated if grown next to/in amongst the TV.

I have no idea how thick a trunk the TV may develop but I've had clems with trunks/bases that were a good 4 inches in diameter. And trunk diameter is not really much of a concern. It is the root system both of these will generate that will cause a conflict being so close. Big vines produce big root systems!!
westes Zone 9b California SF Bay thanked gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
westes Zone 9b California SF Bay
Original Author
10 months ago
The objections to this planting were:

a) The Clematis should not be in the same container as the root systems will compete
b) The Clematis old wood may get drowned out by the more dominant Lavender Trumpet Vine

What if I replant the Clematis on the right side at the base of the large container? That way it grows in a separate soil and would climb up the side of the container and at least be able to display along that run until it gets to the trellis and gets out-competed by the Lavender Trumpet Vine? If that works well, I might end up growing a different variety of Clematis from the base of the container on the left side. If the only thing I got from that was unique flowers below the slip of the container on each side, that would be worth doing.

How Should I Train These Two Vines?

gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)

Comments (7)

floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK

westes Zone 9b California SF Bay
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How Should I Train These Two Vines?

gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)

Comments (7)

floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK

westes Zone 9b California SF BayOriginal Author

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CA Kate z9

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westes Zone 9b California SF Bay
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