Do rugosas re-bloom?

Once mature, the hybrid Spinossisima ‘Stanwell Perpetual‘ has a huge spring flush and then always has some blooms through the summer. It is viciously thorny! Lovely blush flowers and delicious scent. Would it grow well in your climate? And, honestly, my Polyantha/China rose ’Perle d’Or‘ is quite vicious! Carol

Enlarge photos below for a look at Stanwell’s thorns.

Sombreuil grows rather large, but has stiff canes and is VERY THORNY. I am right now being successful with keeping it about 7ft tall.

Madame Caroline Testout (the bush form, not the climber) stays also 7-8 feet tall, and is covered with nasty thorns - I was reminded of that because I trimmed mine today, and have the scars to prove it.

Jackie

If you want madly flowering "barbed wire", you can do no better than Fakir's Delight. NOTHING is AS heavily prickled as this monster. It is a hybrid Bracteata Moss. I suggested the name to Mr. Moore, which, BTW, he hated, yet he used, because its prickles are SO densely packed, you can grab it and move it around without damaging yourself, much like the density of the nails in a Fakir's bed allow them to be laid on. When Mr. Moore was in the hospital, for the first time in his live, at the age of 99, the call went out that if you wanted to see him "one more time", it was time to come NOW. A number of us gathered at the nursery and Caroline decided to put us to work collecting cuttings for propagation as he was limited to the number of people admitted at a time and how long each pair could stay. Because I loved the rose and she "blamed" me for its introduction, she set me lose to collect the hundred pieces she required of me. She figured giving Fakir's Delight to me to gather wood from would "teach me" for pushing for such a prickly monster. The joke was on her, though, because the prickles as SO dense, you can groom and handle it without gloves and with no blood loss. And, thankfully, the joke was on all of us as Mr. Moore recovered and kept playing with the roses for another nearly four years. It's definitely a large climber, though with severe pruning, which will reduce its bloom, you can make a formidable mountain of it. For "prickles", there is none "better"! https://helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.40032&tab=1

Kim, is Bracteata very prickled? I have Out of Yesteryear and it's also with heavy arms.

@Feiy (PNWZ8b/9a) Bracteata has legendary prickles! Are you familiar with Mermaid? Bracteata is the source of Mermaid's "eagle talon" prickles. It's also the source of Out of Yesteryear's prickles. The moss parent simply concentrated and intensified them in Fakir's Delight.

Haha, I got it in a second when you mentioned Mermaid. Thank you.

Gertrude Jekyll is wickedly thorny, I used to joke it could be used for prison landscapes to make sure they don’t escape.

George Burns looks like weaponry. I cannot imagine any creature biting into its stems and being able to eat again.

Best wishes on finding animal resistant roses, Ingrid. I had wondered why Wild Edric had preservered, makes sense that it;s the thorns.

Gertrude Jekyll is really thorny and Graham Thomas is extremely spiky. I remember Straw once mentioned Radio time being very thorny. A lot of DA roses are so。

Ingrid,

I saw this on Facebook and thought of you; desperate times call for desperate measures!

Let me mention the HT Garden Party. It's just a lovely white rose with show stopping petals and I don't have a hedge of them because the prickles are painful. I get chill bumps on my forearms when I think of it, the thorns are that awesom.

If you were trying to keep people out, the rose Kazanlik has thorns that are both dense and look as if they were carved from bronze. Rebloom was never good.

Bracteata sp. has white blooms that are visible from a thousand feet away. Thorns that could have stopped WWI trench warfare.

My neighbors destroyed my Mermaid because of the thorns - hacked it to the ground one day..... a very dangerous rose.

Own root, ONLY Round Up can destroy Bracteata and many of its hybrids. Own root Mermaid is indestructible. A Huntington Rose Garden volunteer, decades ago, lived in a bungalow in Hollywood. He had a small planting area between the chimney and drive and planted a Mermaid to "grow up the chimney". It ATE the house! They finally tired of continually attacking it with power equipment so it was cut down and "dug out". It came baaack... The last part of the story I'd heard was they resorted to digging out the area to nearly 10' to get all of the roots. I have no information if that took care of it or not. My original Out of Yesteryear grew through the drain holes of its five gallon nursery can and well into the ground. I cut it from the ground and planted it. FIVE new plants grew from those roots, which were dug up and shared. That area kept providing new OoY plants for several years until it was finally eradicated. Bracteata, like Soulieana, is immortal.

Carol - thorny AND she's a beauty!!

Roseseek - eeek! What a zombie rose!!

Ingrid - I agree...definitely worth a try and I really hope this works! :) :) :)

Both of these roses are pretty, and Lillian Austin having thorns right up to the flowers sounds very promising. Summer Memories being large is a good thing, and the flowers are very lovely.

A more manageable version of Mermaid is Happenstance. Seems to flowers more readily too.

"Old Town Novato" . . . Quite vicious, but a prolific bloomer with excellent disease-resistance.

The rose came back the very next day, oh, the rose came back. They thought it was a goner but the rose came back, it just couldn't stay away.

"Mermaid" by The Huntington Volunteers. Great song.

I have absolutely LOVED all your suggestions and truly appreciate having so many different varieties to choose from. Kim, your contribution is priceless, so wonderful to hear some rose lore from the past. There cannot be another rosarian like Ralph Moore. I truly think he's still busy on the other side creating new roses.

Meg, thanks so much, but I would truly have to be desperate to have a chicken coop for roses. I love roses, but not that much!

I'm going to be busy trying to choose from this embarrassment of riches, and of course finding purveyors will be the next challenge. Lots of roses seem to be already sold out, although maybe not so much these thorny ones. Stanwell Perpetual is very tempting. My, its thorns actually look scarier than Wild Edric's. Rugosas should be okay here since Wild Edric could easily pass for one although it is an Austin. Old Town Novato is really gorgeous, and I have to admit to loving the old roses best. Out of Yesteryear also has beautiful blooms. This is going to be fun!

@ingrid_vc zone 10 San Diego County Stanwell Perpetual is a real survivor. It is not prickly enough to prevent rodent attacks. MANY years (wow! Literally thirty years) ago, friends gave me a bunch of really neat old roses, one of which was Stanwell Perpetual. Another was Suzanne (another real goodie!). I planted them in the Newhall garden and mulched well with horse manure. Yup, cursed rabbits ate Stanwell TO THE GROUND. A few weeks later, there was the most beautiful, pale pink, highly scented flower resting on the horse manure. A flower bud, literally at the tip of the cane where it just started exiting the ground, opened. One other memory Stanwell played a large part of... my youngest sister asked me to give her away at her wedding. She also asked if I could provide an "obscene" amount of rose petals. Yes, and yes....except, her wedding was early April and that year was WET and COLD so there wasn't an "obscene" amount of rose petals to harvest, even from those many, MANY bushes. Stanwell, however, threw itself into every surrounding bush and exploded into a massive (quite nearly "obscene"!) number of those highly scented, pale pink flowers. There were a few others which provided some petals but the huge Tupperware tub full of petals were mainly Stanwell Perpetual. The very same Stanwell Perpetual which had literally been eaten to the ground years before. As long as your roses are own root and nothing destroys the roots, they DO rebound with water and protection from vermin.

Suzanne is also a survivor that rodents haven't eaten here so far.

The meanest rose that I grow is Vision. A big rose bush with many flowers that I think of as terra cotta colored. But, often a pinkish color most years. Not much scent--requires little care.

Vision was bullet proof in Newhall. HUGE plant with HUGE, gloriously colored flowers. It was the first rose Week's ever imported for introduction. Prior to Vision, every rose they introduced was "born in the USA".

Thank you for reminding me of Suzanne, Kim and Sheila. I had this rose many decades ago, and only for a short time, but I never forgot it or its fragrance that to me was hauntingly different. It gives me such pleasure to know that you have it, Sheila.

Ingrid, I'm glad to see you've taken heart and are thinking about getting more roses. Good luck!!

Ingrid - it's so great to hear you being enthusiastic about getting new roses!! Crossing my fingers that the critters leave your new roses alone. :) :)

Hi Ingrid,

I added White Roadrunner to my garden this year. It's a dwarf rugosa, with XXL thorns! Rebloom is very fast, and nice fragrance too.

I can't find a US seller for her on HMF but it may be out there. I can't imagine any creature wanting to chew on those stems!

I have a “Pretty Lady Rose” hybrid tea and it grows massive every year, the largest out of all my rose bushes. It is VERY thorny, even with gloves I have to be incredibly careful as I have pricked myself with it before. It’s also incredibly fragrant and best of all, deer always avoid it. Praying they don’t touch it this year, but I can tell you it’s been safe so far!

Munstead Wood is very fragrant and very thorny! I also grow Mermaid and she is very vigorous and truly evil lol. Pollinators love her.

Laguna is also vigorous in a warm climate and has evil thorns.

I like the wood structure that Meg posted. Something like that might be a good place to grow smaller roses until they become large enough to withstand rodent pressure. You could even use a light shadecloth and add a drip irrigation system in there.

I would add Sarah Van Fleet to this list, I came away with injuries just planting a little bare root. This is not a rose you'd want to prune or plant near often used spaces.

Seaside - my first thought when I saw those canes was RRD...but then I looked online and found that it looks normal for this rose ( phew) https://www.rosen.de/en/garden-roses/shop-by-type/fragrant-roses/frozen-roadrunner/4755-00

I've just gotten on Rogue Valley's Wait List for Stanwell Perpetual, Suzanne and Mermaid, although I'm not so sure about Mermaid after reading some of the above comments again. It seems to be a seriously frightening rose. They do have a white rugosa in stock and perhaps that would be a good rose to start with. If that's a success I could always add one of these other beauties next season. I would be over the moon if this should actually work out. Gertrude Jekyll is another rose that's available right now, something else to think about.

I believe Antique Rose Emporium stocks Mermaid on its own roots.

1. I will second the massive thorns on Cl. Caroline Testout! and Laguna. One not mentioned is Gold Blush. This will make a large omounding smoungind shrub. Ive also noticed many of the Kordes roses have scary thorns, especially Zaide and Cinderella. Whi, but both have an airy natural look about them when tleft left to their own devices. Another great fragrant thorny rose is Harkness Robin Hood, but I seem to reacall you dont like any reds.

Thank you all so much for these additional wonderful suggestions. I have now checked availability of every rose mentioned here at Rogue Valley Roses and The Texas Rose Emporium, oh and also High Country Roses and the only one available right now is Cl. Caroline Testout at ARE so that is what I'll order. It's a lovely rose although as a climber I don't know that there will be much bloom for a while. I've also tried Chamblee's, who seem to have mostly modern roses now. Cl. Caroline Testout it is!

P.S. Happily, on HMF people have stated that this rose bloomed in its first year so that's good news. It certainly is a lovely rose, and I'm very happy to have this "experiment" be with an old rose.

P.S.S. The next time I'm "inspired" to add a rose I'll make darn sure it's not at the beginning of June. Everyone has been there ahead of me. If this works, I'll be thrilled to pick another "spiny and spiky" in the fall.

Ingrid - I really hope it works!!! :) :) I looked on hmf...it's a beautiful rose!! :) :) And by getting a climber, there's likely to be more roses that the squirrels, etc. can't get to. I know squirrels can climb, lol, but you get more roses on a climber because the canes are longer. Okay...I'm being pedantic. lol

I think CT is the rose of Portland, Or.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roses_in_Portland,_Oregon

It is extremly fragrnat withfragrant with blousy romantic large blooms. Its canes will get large and stiffen so best to tie in ealier than later. Excuse the gremlins on Hoouzz. I cant edit. I thoroughly agree with Carol that if you can keep the canes near the groud intact until it grows abit., the climbing factor may work to your advantage in other ways. I put short chicken wire around the base of all my roses permanently to protect from bunnies. with growth it becomes invisible, but at least thaey cant be eaten to the ground.

You should be able to google pics of CT taken around portland of old surviving plantsgs. While it states it was the bush form planted, Ive seen numerous pics of the climber. Good luck.

We had Mermaid in one of those big giant round hay bale metal holders/ring, used for cattle. She threw up canes every which way her second year in the ground...going up & over the Hay Ring in all directions. They went 8-12 ft out onto the grass where hubby had to deal with them when he mowed..it was a bad plan lol. At our new farm, I am putting her down in the pasture behind the swamp. She is gonna grow naturally down there and I am curious to see what happens lol.

rosecanadian, you have all my permission to be pedantic, and on reflection I'm quite sure that you are right that a climber would be ahead of the game in the roses vs. ground squirrel game. This is a rose that I've often thought about but have never wanted quite enough, and I'm now very happy that I'll have a chance to become acquainted. It is without a doubt very beautiful and romantic in that old rose way that I love.

vapor, how lovely that this is the rose of Portland, and I love the fact that it's very fragrant. I'll be sure to take your advice about the chicken wire. It's going to be very important to protect this rose when it's young and small. Fortunately the area where I'll be planting it, which is at the back of the house, has fewer ground squirrel residents than in the front.

sultry, your post gave me an idea after I got over being afraid of what Mermaid is capable of. I don't know if it will survive there, but if it can prosper at the edge of a drop off near the patio, it would have lots of room to meander downhill into a very large area where not much is planted. On second thought, that is also an area where weeds grow in abundance which by law have to be cut down because of the fire danger, so that will require some thought. I hope you'll let us know how Mermaid does in your pasture; that sounds like a very intriguing experiment.

I just unboxed Enfant de France from Antique Rose Emporium. They strip all the old leaves off before shipping. Thorns!

belle, I rushed over to ARE to look for this rose, which of course is gorgeous, and the only thing that kept me from wanting it immediately is that it is apparently a relatively small rose. That would not do for my purposes, but its thorns are certainly very impressive! HMF says 4 to 6 feet which is not all that small, but I'll stick with Cl. Caroline Testout. I'm going to have only one rose until I can see whether the gobblers will leave it alone or not. Please do show us your thorny baby when she blooms!

M Carolyn Testout: the (beautiful) Rose of Portland!

I know you love La France, Ingrid, so this comparison should come as good news. I quote from the article linked below: ”According to the December 8, 1901 issue of the Sunday Oregonian, Holman remarked, ‘If there is space for but one variety of roses, I urge the planting of Madame Caroline Testout: it lacks the perfume of the La France, but maintains its exquisite pink color, even in the hottest days of August… Portland has not yet a distinct name like San Francisco… but we can if we will give to Portland the name of the ‘Rose City’ during and after the Exposition of 1905.‘” The blooms of MCT really are right in line with your preferences, I think.

I hope Stanwell P is as lovely, delicious and vicious for you as he has been for me! He needs a bit of time to become glorious…and then he is! I forgot to mention his fern-like foliage—delicate and pretty. Carol

Portland Monthly Article Carolyn Testout

Antique Rose Emporium also has Conrad Ferdinand Meyer, a Hybrid Rugosa that is very tall and much thornier than Enfant de France.

Conrad Ferdinand Meyer @ ARE

CFM @ HelpMeFind

Sultry - that is a great idea! :) :)

Ingrid - so exciting that this may work out for you! Then you can have a yard full of climbers. :) :)

Belle - holey moley...those are thorns!!

Be careful of CF Meyer. I used to sell it at Limberlost Roses. We tried it again at The Outdoor Room. I had it in three clients' gardens and it RUSTED EVERYWHERE in the Los Angeles area. Even during periods of triple digits and single digit humidity, that thing RUSTED. It's a hybrid rugosa and "thou shalt NOT spray ANYTHING other than pure water" or it will yellow and shed every leaf. It would then leaf out again and rust from top to bottom again. Meyer is the source of rust in many of the earlier Austin roses. There were semi circular beds of Tamora, one of his best for SoCal and a glorious thing, around the tempietto in the rose garden at The Huntington. They may still be there. I've not been there in some years. They were gorgeous and EVERY ONE OF THEM rusted like an old iron skillet. Cressida and Sir Clough also inherited the addiction to rust from Meyer. I know it MUST be a glorious thing where it's happy, but Los Angeles, the San Fernando Valley and Santa Clarita Valley were NOT where that is. Rugosa hybrids were created to provide cold hardiness. That isn't something required for most of California, much less Southern California. Every hybrid rugosa I grew in Newhall, EXCEPT Linda Campbell, rusted horribly. Most of them are meant to be decidious in severe cold weather, but we don't get that kind of cold weather in most of California so they don't go deciduous. The old foliage black spots and rusts terribly. My experience from many years of wanting to grow them showed me most are simply not suited to hot, long, arid climates with no real cold, wet, "winter". It may be due to the guaranteed water stress conditions they are bound to experience in arid, high heat. The end of year fungal issues are due to old foliage the plants refuse to shed. If you decide to try Meyer, be forewarned. Expect rust.

Here we don't seem to have rust. CF Meyer is good here. Cressida ditto. Diane in Boise has me convinced I need Tamora.

This is one great feature of this forum, where Kim can report expert advice for his local conditions. It is invaluable.

It's a shame about the rust on CF Meyer. It seemed just what Ingrid was looking for. Even though rust in not an issue here I have no plans for growing CFM, but I would like to give Tamora another try. I had one once, but gave it away to a friend who liked it.

I've seen pictures of the Huntington tempietto with the beds of Tamora around it, and they were really beautiful.

Rhodologue Jules Gravereaux is very healthy, prickly, and also looks like La France here. The bush is so handsome as you know, Ingrid.

Sheila, you surely know how to pull at my heart strings. My Rhodologue was never as handsome as yours as it got too much shade, but how well I remember those exquisite flowers. If and when I order another rose in the fall I'm thinking it might be a white one such as Stanwell Perpetual, but who knows what will have happened by then. Seeing how well your roses are doing gives me much happiness.