You are going to pay one way or another.

The only vendor who gave us a "credit" was the Marvin window supplier because he ordered 5 casement windows that opened in the wrong directions. He re-ordered the correct handed windows, but production times were so long that I gave up on waiting for the last 2 and had stucco and drywall proceed to keep the build on schedule. No one will notice, except myself.

At the end of the build I let my builder take the 2 extra windows.

The Marvin window supplier never expected us to catch a typo on the order, specially when the plans showed the correct swing.

Your builder should have been doing the math and ordered the correct jambs. That wasn't your job. But like I said, you are going to pay one way or another!

More details would be needed. Usually a builder is also in in charge of the trim work. Who measured the windows , who paid for them? what does the contract state?

More details would be needed

Happy to provide:

• Yes, builder is in charge of trim work (they're managing the entire build)
• Windows were ordered before framing, so were done based on architectural plans
• Builder "paid" for them via purchase order then invoiced us, as I believe is common/standard for cost-plus
• What does the contract state about what, exactly? It doesn't say anything about the size of the jamb extensions if that's the question?

I say it’s on them.

Whomever was responsible for ordering the windows is at fault here unless something changed after the fact (or unless there is some out-of-the-ordinary arrangement that you have).

Its no different if they ordered them too tall, or too short, or the wrong color. An ordering error is exactly that. This is why you hire professionals, to do things (and take responsibility for them) that an average person is not qualified to do. Claiming that a "sign-off" from Joe and Sally homeowner that know nothing about building homes or the technical aspects of ordering windows is a total cop out.

I would say with cost plus, my impression is that even if you get them to pay for it now, somehow those charges will be buried in something else so they can make up for it.

Typically a window dealer does the takeoff from the plan. Window dealer should have provided correct jambs and/or replaced when discovered they're incorrect. What gives them an "out" is they provided a list of products, not necessarily "providing windows per plan"

Its a little slippery especially if the builder was not involved in the process & just handed an invoice to pay. Some dealers look at builders as a nuisance.

What does your cost plus contract say about errors, repairs, etc?

The builder was in the loop with the window ordering, but I don't have 100% visibility into how much was done by the window dealer vs the builder. The builder obviously chose the window dealer/has a regular working relationship with them.

This is why you hire professionals, to do things (and take responsibility for them) that an average person is not qualified to do.

This is my thinking as well - I'm hiring out the expertise to figure out the right size winows, jambs, etc, and order and install them correctly.

What does your cost plus contract say about errors, repairs, etc?

I just searched and the word "error" does not exist in the contract. Repairs are covered under warranty for defects in workmanship or materials. Totally an oversight on our part (well, and the construction attorney we had review the contract) to not have it clearly spelled out who is responsible for errors

Was it not possible to modify the casing trim?

If there was an architect involved, did he/she review the window order?

I know it's entirely irrelevant but I'm curious why the drywall was 5/8".

Was it not possible to modify the casing trim?

Modify in what way? Cut a lip in it so it would sit flush against the existing jamb extensions? Honestly I don't know -- we weren't consulted before they started ripping out the extensions.

If there was an architect involved, did he/she review the window order?

Our draftsman/designer, not architect (not licensed as far as I'm aware, though does have a degree in architectural engineering FWIW) has shown/expressed no interest in the actual build of the house he designed. [Yes yes, I know we should have hired a licensed architect, our house would be better, faster, cheaper, etc ;) ]

I know it's entirely irrelevant but I'm curious why the drywall was 5/8".

(Hopefully) less bowing in walls and ceilings, reduced sound transfer, bonus of greater fire resistance.

@Jason said, Builder is not taking responsibility for any of the cost/re-work, and stated that when we signed off on the window order we approved them as “designed”.

This is often repeated and incorrect. You can indemnify the mistakes of those whose work you supervise, but you can't be indemnified by them. The contractor/builder is considered the supervisor of all technical work and details, and customers the supervisor of style choices. In other words, you can indemnify the builder for making a mistake on the style or color of the windows but not anything related to sizing.

We really don't need any more details. Since the builder is the supervisor of the build, the builder is responsible. It doesn't matter if you signed off on the jamb size. It also doesn't matter who ordered the windows... either the builder got it wrong or he failed to supervise the person who did and either way it is his problem. He can, of course, attempt to hold suppliers or subs responsible but supervising the order is his responsibility.

----

As for padding the bill. He can certainly attempt to do that, you are allowed to ask for a construction audit to determine the validity of the bills, but not many people actually do. You are certainly not required to pay for his mistakes.

Who authorized the trim carpenter to tear out the short and install the correct size instead of simply adding 1/8" to the existing extensions? Is the finish natural or painted? He would have been finished in half a day with $20.00 worth of material.

Are windows going to be under factory warranty after this adjustment?

Who authorized the trim carpenter to tear out the short and install the correct size instead of simply adding 1/8" to the existing extensions? Is the finish natural or painted?

Finish is painted. As mentioned above, we weren't consulted before they started ripping out the extensions, so presumably the builder authorized it.

When questioned about the charges, the builder said:

"The 5/8” drywall required the jambs to be removed and rebuilt to accommodate-option would have been to strip fit the extension which was not an option we would recommend or chose from a long term quality standpoint."

If I interpret that correctly in the context of your question, they don't believe "simply adding 1/8" to the extensions" is something they would recommend or choose, and thus didn't present us with the option.

And by the way, thank you everyone for the perspective and questions. I really just want to get my head around this and understand how best to follow up with the builder on this. Sadly, based on the communication to date I suspect we'd have to pursue a legal approach (mediation/court) to get them to deviate from their current stance.

I think i would try to deal with this after completion and wait to see if there are more issues since you a ways to go. I think it would be easier or more beneficial to deal with them all together. You always got a little bit of advantage unless you paid in full.

What happened with door jambs?

My cost of the work contracts require written notice of “Changes in the Work“ and a written Change Order for the owner’s approval before that work can be performed. "Corrections in the Work" would not require the Owner's approval since there would be no change in the Cost of the Work. To not understand this is to not understand the nature of a Cost of the Work contract which, in my experience, is not uncommon on singe-family house projects.

I not only review change proposals, I check the window and door orders and the presence of 5/8" GWB at any wall would have been so unusual on a residential project that I would have remembered it. But, more importantly, the GC should have noticed it.

As for 5/8" GWB, even for walls in multi-family housing, only interior separation walls are fire rated except where a building is unusually close to another building and that requires automatic fire shutters on the windows and even then the GWB would likely be 1/2" type C.

Assuming 5/8” GWB is on all walls, did the contractor order the correct interior door frames?

If there was a door and window schedule or specification please post it.

Did the GC sign off on the door and window orders? I don't check those orders until that has happened. And my stamp says ”no exceptations taken” because only a GC can approve a product submission from his sub.

I have always recommended that an Owner in a Cost of the Work contract have an independent representative; there's just too much at stake to try to do it yourself..

When you consider the number of components that go into the construction of a custom home and the number of individuals involved in building one, you'll understand the potential for mistakes. I have both my superintendent and our window and door supplier check the windows and exterior doors prior to order. That said, it's possible they could have made a similar mistake. In the grand scheme of things, it's not a big deal. We would have made a correction in the field, eaten the cost, and not involved the homeowner.

More importantly, did the builder offer 5/8" GWB as an option and was the additinal cost reflected in the Cost of the Work Budget?

Was there a written Budget itemizing the estimated costs?

Was there a Guaranteed Maximum Price?

Painted or stained finish? I've had to add a narrow rip of wood to the back of door or window trim to accommodate weird, old house issues in jamb width. You can't even tell it's there.

" What happened with door jambs? "

As todd mentions above. All if your door jambs exterior and interior will have the same issue unless taken into account, Interior moreso as there will be 1/4" as the drywall will be 1/8" thicker than typical on both sides. Interior door jambs will need to be 4 7/8" which will cost more than your typical 4 5/8" and require special order.

The back of casing trim typically has a plough or relief (ie, a recess) in the middle. Planing one side down is easy assuming that's enough. Rabbeting it further takes a bit more work but it can be done efficiently in a shop. Ot a shim can be added to one side or the other whichever is cheaper.

I find it incredible that a carpenter would start modifying windows without notice to or approval from the owner. To me that action is clear evidence that the GC had taken responsibility for the corrective work.

A Cost of the Work contract doesn't give the contractor a blank check to do whatever he wants at the owner's expense.

Lots of questions on the drywall....I'd argue the "why" of 5/8" drywall is irreleveant. Regardless, the answers to peoples' questions:

• Again, the 5/8" drywall is written into the original specs on our contract. It is not, however, reflected on the architectural drawings (there is no wall section profile on there indicating sheathing thickness or drywall thickness or anything)
• The additional cost of the 5/8" vs 1/2" is reflected in the original budget that's part of the contract
• There is no "guaranteed maximum price" in the contract

As far as the doors, it looks like the exterior doors were ordered with the same jamb size. I don't recall seeing/hearing of issues with those, but will look when I'm next out there.

Also did not hear of/see any issues with interior doors. Looking at the invoice, they appear to have been ordered with 4 13/16" jambs (I don't know what a normal size would be for 1/2" drywall).

I totally understand that mistakes will happen in such a large project. What's important is how they are handled/resolved, IMO.

FWIW, in my market for custom builds (Chicago), we only use 5/8" drywall.

Would there have been a price difference for the correct jamb size from Marvin? If so, I think that is the only cost you would have been accountable for. You should not have to pay extra to correct something that was not ordered correctly. In my experience with custom builds, the builder is responsible for checking the window order and should absorb the cost of failing to do so.

If you're in a cold climate zone (and Chicago certainly qualifies) walls are likely framed with 2" x 6" studs to accommodate the additional insulation thickness required. If they're spaced 24" o.c. 5/8" drywall would be necessary for the extra rigidity.

It does seem obvious that 1/2" drywall was assumed to be used, so tracking down that 5/8" detail on the plans would be where to start with the "fault". Did the builder read the plans correctly in order to be able to order the correct jambs for the build? Did the home designer indicate that detail anywhere on the plans? A section detail would normally be used to call out details like that.

Fault is counter productive on most builds. It creates a "gotcha" atmosphere that is exactly opposite of the team atmosphere that you want to have happen. When everything is a "gotcha", no one proposes solutions for the whole. Everyone stays in their own lane, and lets future problems happen, because they don't want anyone yelled at about fault.

If you want your build to be more trouble free, and end up with less cost, it's best to assume that everyone bears a part of a problem, so it is everyone's problem to solve. That includes you, the home designer, the builder, and the sub. With the home designer out of the picture, you can bet a lot will get blamed in that direction, perhaps rightfully so. This is a good time to really go over those plans with the builder, to see if you can spot future expensive baked in issues that will cost you money. Unfortunately, as the home designer was your sub, insufficient documentation or plan errors do come back to your door. Which is why you want that team atmosphere for problem solving to be created. You may need that.

I was only pointing out that 5/8" GWB is unusual enough to be noticed by the window supplier and GC based on my 50 years of experience. Where it is not unusual, the supplier and GC should be even more aware of the need to provide for it in the window order.

To clarify why I believe the GC has already taken responsibility for the window error:

If the GC or the GC's sub made a mistake, it should be considered a "Correction in the Work" at no cost to the owner.

If the Owner or the Owner's agent made a mistake, the correction should be considered a "Change in the Work" which should require a change order approved by the owner before work began.

Typical Cost of the Work contract terms would be, "Such changes in the work shall be authorized by written Change Order signed by the Owner and Contractor, or by written Construction Change Directive signed by the Owner."

In my opinion, the fact that the contractor began work on the windows without notice to or approval from the Owner is clear evidence that the GC took responsibility for the correction.

Of course, if the contract was written by the GC, it may not protect you from unauthorized charges.

The fact that the interior door frames were ordered for 5/8" GWB is additional evidence that the GC made a mistake with the windows.

"Looking at the invoice, they appear to have been ordered with 4 13/16" jambs (I don't know what a normal size would be for 1/2" drywall)."

4 9/16" is the typical jamb depth for 4" studs with 1/2" drywall so you are good there. The exterior doors will have the same issue if they were ordered as 6 9/16".

@DeWayne I agree that focusing on fault is generally unproductive, and we want to be working towards resolutions.

How would you propose our situation be resolved in the spirit of your comments above? Again, understanding that the builder was aware of the 5/8" drywall from the get-go and it's reflected in the written specifications in the contract.

(and btw, we are WAY more involved than we expected to be an actively working to flush out any potential issues and have actively caught a number of mistakes by the builder and subs before they have become expensive to remedy).

The exterior doors will have the same issue if they were ordered as 6 9/16".

Which they were. I'll have a look and discuss this with the project manager today.

At this point, make an appointment with your construction attorney who reviewed the contract to be certain of how things are worded for changes and errors. Cost Plus does not automatically mean the homeowner pays for everything, even if it's fixing mistakes. Know what your contract actually says, from that position of strength, before you set up an all hands meeting.

Go ahead and pay the cost difference, on protest. That's leverage for later. In the all hands, do NOT use the phrase "my lawyer says" or any reference to anything legal. That is immediately hostile. Use the words, "I think the contract indicates XYZ, so let's move forward with that being the case." Have a solution in mind, before the meeting. Even if that solution is actually just following the contract. "When we have unexpected larger changes that impact the job, the contract says we must be notified. I appreciate that it takes time for you to do that, so I promise to be timely with my responses."

I would have had them pack out the jamb extension rather than tear apart a factory applied extension jamb, especially since this is all being painted. Way less time a, dollars and effort.

@DeWayne said, ”make an appointment with your construction attorney who reviewed the contract to be certain of how things are worded for changes and errors.”

This doesn’t really exist. You can’t be hired to supervise construction and generally disclaim responsibility for construction supervision. Errors and omissions clauses are fairly standard but they don’t really shift responsibility for errors, rather they are an agreement that all parties will negotiate/cooperate to resolve errors. An applicable example of an E&O clause in action is allowing the builder to extend the existing jamb rather than requiring the builder to reorder the windows.

@Jason - Be careful about taking advice here from anyone. Sites like this are a great place to gather information but we don’t have anything approaching enough specific information to give you advice. Your builder is likely at fault for this error but what that means really depends on you, your builder, and the relationship you currently enjoy.

I would be much more concerned about the “signing off” position than I would be about this amount.

I would probably send an email like this: I am sorry for the confusion about signing off. Please understand that I am not qualified to evaluate the technical specifications of items you order. I am happy to sign off on style choices, but will not be able to check orders for sufficiency or accuracy.

However, that is my response assuming a lot of things about your relationship with the builder that may not be accurate.

ETA: just to be clear… I am sure some contractor somewhere has put in some clause that attempts to charge the owner for their negligence. When I say these clauses don’t really exist, I mean that they don’t really exist in the law and are likely unenforceable.

The exterior doors will have the same issue if they were ordered as 6 9/16"

They were and they do, except it appears the trim carpenter put a stepped piece of trim between the door frame and the casing to fill in the gap. So you have 3 offset "steps" or levels of wood around the door (where normally you'd have two - the frame with the casing offset by 1/4" or whatever amount).

I had not noticed it before so it's a pretty clean look overall but is noticeable once you know to look for it.

What is the sheathing thickness?

What is the sheathing thickness?

I see how that detail factors into this issue, but sadly I do not know the answer (not a detail I'd think most owners are in the loop on)

Exterior sheathing (aka shear wall OSB or plywood) is typically specified by the engineer & prominent on the plans. Typically 3/8" but may have been 1/2" which would create the issue. Someone correct me if wrong.